War on Terror.

[aid]

Monsieur Comrade Takeo,

Are you serious lecturing me on what Communist anti-Semitism was? I experienced it on my own skin, Comrade.

And you are not as naive as it might seem to be. You know about Comrades Anpilov, Zyuganov, CPRF, "Pravda", etc.

Here is a quote from a Communist source:

. The CPRF has always tolerated national chauvinism in general, and anti-Semitism in particular, in its ranks. But this reached new heights when CPRF Duma deputy General Albert Makashov declared in his October 1998 article "Usurers of Russia" that the "yid" had taken over Russia to "drink the blood of the indigenous peoples [i.e., Russians -- Mark] of the state" and this was the reason for "usury, deceit, corruption and thievery" "flourishing in the country." Now if there CPRF had any concern for class solidarity or a real interest in pointing out the real causes of the crisis, they would not even allow the likes of Makashov in their party. But the CPRF, which is the dominant party in the Duma, resolutely opposed even a measure of censure against Makashov. Then, CPRF leader Zyuganov embarked on a campaign to apologize for Makashov.

http://www.flash.net/~comvoice/20cRussia.html

Also read this, By YEVGENI PROSHECHKIN Chairman, Moscow Antifascism Center:

http://www.bu.edu/iscip/vol9/Proshechkin.html

There is no difference beteen Communists and Fascists anymore, if ever there was one.

I could give you many more, but when you talk to a real Commie it is useless. You only see their stonewalling. It is the same story with all the true believers in in totalitarian ideologies and violence.

As for Zhirinovsky, he is simply a clown, with no following left in Russia. He is a creature of the Soviet KGB under Gorbachev: the KGB prepared Zhirinovsky for the role of the fake opposition party in the USSR.

Now, regarding Stalin's crimes. I was not saying that he was worse for Jews than Hitler. He did not have that chance - God took him before he could do it. In 1953 Stalin was ready for the mass deportation of Jews to Siberia, where most of them would have been died. The trains were already prepared.

But even without it, Stalin killed Judaism. There were just a couple of synagogues left standing. Hitler killed the Jews individually, Stalin killed the Jewish nation.

But what I really was referring to were ALL victims of Stalinism, not only Jewish.

And here is some statistics:

Peasant dead: 1930-37 11,000,000
Arrested in this period dying in camps later 3,500,000
Total 14,500,000
Of these:
Dead as a result of dekulakization 6,500,000
Dead in the Kazakh catastrophe 1,000,000
Dead in the 1932-33 famine: 7,000,000

http://web.qx.net/jon/stalin.html

These are only the victims of collectivization. This is before the Great Purges and other Communist crimes.


It goes without saying that Communist regimes have killed and imprisoned many times more people than all the Fascist regimes ever could.

Today, the remnants of Fascism and Commiunism have practically merged, especially in realtion to Israel.

I don't have time to refute all your statements. I asked you to provide a link to the Geneva conventions regarding refugeees you are claiming Israel is not adhereing to, and you give me a primitive propaganda website instead. You have no idea what primary sources are.

You have admitted again that you are denying Israel's legitimacy and accepting it only as a fact (because where do you put the people who live there?), despite all the resolutions of the League of Nations and UN declaring Palestine to be the national home of the Jewish people and creating the State of Israel. If you find where to put the people (Antarctica?), you would destroy Israel. This is what I call Fascism in its pure form.

You are studiously ignoring all al-Fateh terrorism, past and present, ridiculously relaying on their propaganda statements to "prove" that they have abandoned violence and their goal of destruction of Israel. That's not surprizing: your goals as a Commie and Arab Fascist goals are identical.

[takeo]

it was not a primitive propaganda-sources (less primitive than the propaganda-links you gave me) and they clearly stated on what parts of the Geneva-conventions Israel offended, and why (citing the geneva-conventions Israel offended, which were by the way never signed by israel, for some reason).
Yesi know a lot about Russia as my family is originally from Russia.
This was the person i was referring to (forgot his name), he made indeed anti-semitic remarks but had been criticised for that. Anti-semitism is on the rise in Russia because of those super-corrupted "tycoons" who are by coincidence mostly Jewish(but Russians as well, which the Russian public tend to forget).
I can only assure that such remarks would not have been tolerated in the PCF.


"I could give you many more, but when you talk to a real Commie it is useless. You only see their stonewalling. It is the same story with all the true believers in in totalitarian ideologies and violence. "

I could give you many more, but when you talk to a real zionist it is useless. You only see their stonewalling. It is the same story with all the true believers in etnic-centered ideologies and violence. Zionism and fascism have the same nationalist roots.

"Now, regarding Stalin's crimes. I was not saying that he was worse for Jews than Hitler. He did not have that chance - God took him before he could do it. In 1953 Stalin was ready for the mass deportation of Jews to Siberia, where most of them would have been died. The trains were already prepared. "

Where did you read this, another biased story by Daniel Pipes (love that guy) or David Horowitz? it seems most of your "facts" originated in their brains (or in the brains of the propaganda-machine of course, of which they are a part).

"But even without it, Stalin killed Judaism. There were just a couple of synagogues left standing. Hitler killed the Jews individually, Stalin killed the Jewish nation. "

No, he did the same to all religions. in fact since the october-revolutions the persecution of Jews stopped, you can check this in the Jewish library on the net (a pro-israeli website by the way). But if you mean that he "killed" Jewish nationalism than i'm glad he did so.
All the facts about the "stalinist crimes" are biased and there has never been a serious independant investigation to this. i don't say there weren't such crimes(mostly high-ranking communist party members), but claims of millions of deaths are ridiculous and impossible if you see the demography. Can you give me one unbiased historical research about those facts (can perfectly be traced, there is an extensive Kremlin and communist party archive)? Unlike the Israeli crimes, which happened before the eye of the camera in most cases, Stalin-crimes have never been reseached, only speculated by ennemies. For example during the collectivisation in those years in ukrain only the farms of 2 million people have been collectivised, so how could 7 million have died?
but anyway, this has nothing to do with Israel. By the way, the Soviet-Union was one of the first countries to recognise Israel...



"It goes without saying that Communist regimes have killed and imprisoned many times more people than all the Fascist regimes ever could.
Today, the remnants of Fascism and Commiunism have practically merged, especially in realtion to Israel."

blabla, any facts, please????????????
The fact is that European fascists support Israel and communists don't .


"You have admitted again that you are denying Israel's legitimacy and accepting it only as a fact (because where do you put the people who live there?), despite all the resolutions of the League of Nations and UN declaring Palestine to be the national home of the Jewish people and creating the State of Israel. If you find where to put the people (Antarctica?), you would destroy Israel. This is what I call Fascism in its pure form. "

You think Israel has the right to refuse Israel to the Palestinian original inhabitants and has the right to extend its territory, in spite of the UN-resolutions. That's what i call fascism.
the UN declared that the current territory of Israel was a home of the jews but not ONLY of the Jews. I still think zionism was a fascist and nationalist idea, based on "one people-one country". but now it can't be changed anymore, not even if new land is found where nobody lives.



"You are studiously ignoring all al-Fateh terrorism, past and present, ridiculously relaying on their propaganda statements to "prove" that they have abandoned violence and their goal of destruction of Israel. That's not surprizing: your goals as a Commie and Arab Fascist goals are identical. "

The moderate Arab goals and communist goals concerning Israel are indeed identical: accepting Israel on the condition that it complies to ALL uN-resolutions (one can not just take one that you like and ignore the other one) . There is nothing fascist about fighting for the freedom of its own people against a country that considers them to be "inferior", in fact, this is pure anti-fascism.
You are ignoring all the war-crimes committed by the zionist leaders, past and present, ridiculously relaying on their propaganda statements to "prove" that Israel has the right to occupy other countries, refuse original inhabitants to return to their homes and commit violence.
goals of all nationalistic and religious extremists are identical: destroy the other etnic group because you think your people has the right to take this land entirely to you.

[takeo]

By the way, i'm curious, when did you leave Russia and how did you feel anti-semitism?
I believe that many people who criticized the Soviet-union because of human rights issues in the 80's are now supporting regimes that have a much worse human rights-record, Sharansky is a good example. (sholsenitsin is another one, but he isn't a Jew and is not a supporter of Israel)
by the way, with your logic Russia should be anti-semitic, because russia is home of the Russians and the Jews are just squatters ( not my words, the words of newsguy) . Fortunately most Russians are more open-minded than you, Russians and Jews (which are in fact Russians from Jewish origin) alike.
both russian anti-semitism and chauvinism and zionism want etnic separation, they are allies. (and unfortunately they succeeded)

[aid]

I left Russia because of the so-called Communists - in reality regular thugs: banditen un ganovim.

As all bandits, Fascist, Islamist or Communist (they have all merged more or less today), they were anti-Semitic. They were strangling every thinking person of course, but they reserved special hatred for Jews.

They (and especially Stalin of course) were against all religions, but at the same time they were playing with the Russian Orthodox Church. They needed it. They owned it. THey made all the appointments in the church hierarchy. The Church was controlled by the KGB. However, there were churches for people to go, there were bishops, priests, there was the Patriarch of all Russia, and there were the seminaries.

But when it came to Judaism, they demolished everything: I believe only two, maybe three synagogues in the whole country (one sixth of the landmass) remained standing - in Moscow and Leningrad. There was no school to prepare rabbis. There were no shoichets, no matso - nothing. In my native city - Smolensk - there once was a beautiful synagogue. They made it a party school. My father and uncle had to sneak like thieves into a shtube for a high holiday and shake there for fear to be "uncovered".

Takeo writes how is happy "Jewish nationalism" was destroyed. Yes, it was, but Russian nationalism became the party policy. Communism and Great-Russian chauvinism merged (just like Communism and Islamism today), and Soviet Communism became little more than an expression of Russian nationalism.

So, this is it: Nazis deny Nazi crimes. Communists (who you would think should be shamed off the face of the earth) are denying Communist, even Stalinist and Maoist crimes.

Nazis deny the Holocaust, Communists deny the mass killings of socially unsuitable elements on a grandiose scale. This is happening right here, on this very board.

Truly these people have no shame. Truly their audacity is breathtaking. They are an insult to the memory of the millions mercilessly killed.

[takeo]

"So, this is it: Nazis deny Nazi crimes. Communists (who you would think should be shamed off the face of the earth) are denying Communist crimes." (ps, i'm not denying, just put things in their right perspective and try for once to bring in some actual facts in the discussion in stead of ideology)

One more to add: Zionists are denying zionist crimes during the past 5 decades.

Nazis deny the Holocaust, Communists deny the mass killings of socially unsuitable elements. Zionists are denying war-crimes and defend war-criminals. This is happening right here, on this very board. (yes, indeed, constantly)

Truly these people have no shame. Truly their audacity is breathtaking.

and your claim that todat in russia communists and arabists are identical brings all the rest you said in doubt. as you might know the CPRF (by the way a very moderate communist party, that wants to look at China for an economic model instead of the catastrophically economic decline the new leaders have put Russia) is one of the most anti-Chechen parties in Russia. this is not because of nationalism but to preserve the national borders of russia. On the contrary to the Palestinians the Chechens had equal rights as the Russians and their own almost autonomous republic were the Russian minority was ruled by Chechens, not vice versa. chechenia is also by the whole world recognised as a part of Russia. They have been etnic cleansed by stalin but Kroutchev undid that etnic cleansing(so don't start to make comparitions with the Palestinians, there are none. the CPRF calls for a stronger stand against Islamic extremism but at the same time condamns western and israeli crimes against islamic people.
And only when i went to kharkov in 1988 as a child i visited two Synagogues and again 1 in Sverdlovsk. They were still funtioning as synagogues. So it is clear you are a lier or ignorant or too much biased against communism to see the facts.
OK, i heard life under communism was not totall freedom and yes it was not possible to have dissent political opinion. But people lived a lot better than they do now, in Russia but for sure even worse today in the islamic republics.
Stalin nor the CPRF were or are Russian nationalists or anti-semites. many Jews were and are still in the party and don't forget that stalin wasn't a russian himself, he was georgian, Khroutchov and breznyev were ukrainians. So a Russian nationalist regime that transform its state into a loose federation and let non-russians govern the country? I don't think so! Israel on the contrary, and jewish nationalism in general, very nationalistc, truly believe jew people are superior to other people and have special rights. We can all see the consequences of this policy in Israel, but as well in other countries were anti-communist nationalists rose to power after 1989 (armenia, azerbaidjan, Georgia, Moldova, tadjikistan (there it is still communists against islamists), tchechenia, Bosnia, croatia, Serbia, Macedonia... all these countries have their fanatic exclusive nationalism (or religious intolerance, if you see how people on this board talk about Islam) in common with Israel.
Yes, stalin used the Russian orthodox church and the positions were appointed by the system, but this was true as well for islam and judaism. only some sects were really banned in communist Russia (witnesses of yehova, etc. ).

[takeo]

Zionism as perceived by Herzl was left-wing in orientation, not religious and considered Uganda instead of Palestine as the place to be. He also said that colonising Jews should take land that was not inhabited and not harm the original population. the creation of Zionism was in a time of anti-semitic persecution in Eastern Europe.
Later on zionism in Palestine became more radical (partly because of Palestinian hostility) and hostile to the original inhabitants and later on as well against against the occupiing nation (GB) because it wanted to limit further Jewish colonisation in areas that were inhabited by Palestinians. the Jewish organisation conducted terrorist acts against brittish and Palestinian targets. But zionism was still leftist, a strange combination between left-wing ideals (collectivism, trade union, etc.) and fanatic nationalism excluding Palestinians.
More later on likud was created, the most degenerated form of zionism, that only remained ultra-nationalistic but left its left-wing ideals. this is the history of degeneration of zionism, with as a sad conclusion Sharon as president of Israel.

[takeo]

sorry, prime minister

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by takeo
... But zionism was still leftist, a strange combination between left-wing ideals (collectivism, trade union, etc.) and fanatic nationalism excluding Palestinians.

Again, sorry to intervene with actual facts, but I just thought I'd mention that there are currently 1.5 million Arabs living large in Israel, enjoying a standard of living that is unmatched by any of their third-world brethren, with entitlement to Israeli government subsidies for higher education, municipal services, total religious freedom, and having equal access to Israeli democracy, including having their elected Arab officials in the Knesset. All this courtesy of the democratic Israeli taxpayer.

So your statement about "excluding Palestinians" is totally false, of course. Nice try...

[takeo]

Please don't try to fool me, i've been to Israel and talked to dozens of "arab Israeli citizens". Equal rights are only on paper, nobody treats them as equal! And their living standard is a lot lower than most jewish israeli and than in for example Saoudi Arabia or Libia. Besides they are just a tiny minority of the people who lived in what was going to be Israel before 1948. Most people fled and were not able to return. besides the comments only on this board already show that they are not wanted and despised.

[aid]

Takeo, Takeo,

All you can do is to parrot me.

You can't come up with one original thought. Well, what would you expect from Commies today - you are truly scraping the bottom of the pit.

The point was that Russian (and other) Communists and Arabists and Islamists are the same when it comes to Israel and to Jews at large. I see no difference. I know what Russian Commies-Judophobes are thinking and I can read what you are writing here. More than that, it is as hard now to find an awowed Commie anyplace else as it was after WWII for the Allies to find Nazis to bring to court.

Russia is today certainly better off than under Communism. No one but a few incorrigibles would wantto go back. But the main thing is the hope, openess - I meet Russians everywhere in the world today - the hope for better life.

The Russian red-brown scum including the CPRF somehow manage to be the most anti-Chechen and anti-Semitic. They are also anti-Arab racists, but their main stand is anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism, just like yours.

And only when i went to kharkov in 1988 as a child i visited two Synagogues and again 1 in Sverdlovsk. They were still funtioning as synagogues. So it is clear you are a lier or ignorant or too much biased against communism to see the facts.

Lies?

That was in 1988, under Gorbachev, when the USSR was expiring. It had three years left to live. At that point, yes, some synagogues were restored. But under the regime of Brezhnev, a synagogue was treated as a CIA office.

Stalin nor the CPRF were or are Russian nationalists or anti-semites. many Jews were and are still in the party and don't forget that stalin wasn't a russian himself, he was georgian, Khroutchov and breznyev were ukrainians

You are simply ignorant. Yes, this is exactly what they were and still are. It was nearly impossible to a Jew to join the party under Brezhnev. The Central Committee of the party had only one Jew - from Birobijan. Stalin was the chief Russian nationalist, never mind his Georgian origins. This is a well-known pattern: Hitler was not German, but Austrian and Napoleon was not French but Italian. Khruschev and Brezhnev were Russian, and no one but Russian could be the General Secretary, after the Stalin and Beria fiascos.

Oy, Takeo, I know how it is difficult for a Communist to admit to the truth (if you did, you'd commit a suicide), but please don't lecture me on Russia at least.

Do you speak Russian by the way?

[raven]

To TakeO: (which you will --NOT--not in Israel and not in the World) Lots of people LIVE in countries which they have not founded and are relative "newcommers". That doesnt mean they get to TAKEOVER parts of the country that they just live in and carve out another country all their own. (Much as Islam is trying to do in India, in the Pillipines, in Africa, in Israel, in China, in Eastern Europe and on and on)

Until the late 50's the Arab World called these so called Palistinians "imposters". Because that is what they are! They come from Greece and Crete origionally, came to the area in waves after each incident or natural disaster happened their own area, tried to takeover one country after another, FAILED, and blended into the Arab Population. They NEVER, ever. established other then what is called ---Settlements. These Settlements never developed into any kind of full distinct country, no distinct language, no distinct culture. A full Sham. This "Palistianian" business is merely a new device to use to get rid of Israel.

Since DNA testing and advances in Carbon and other Archeological Dating, this supposed new catagory "Palistinian" has been discredited and now they are now having to switch to calling themselves, "Cannonites". They hope that will be so hard to prove or disprove that the rest of the antisemetic world can glom on to THIS new definition as an excuse to give this phony group a piece of land that they never founded, are new to, and are not entitled to. Certainly when they tried to take over Arab lands, the Arabs didnt allow it (Egypt, Jordan, Labanon) and we wont either.

No never mind to YOU that a group just migrating lately( in the Middle East a couple hundred years qualifies as "newcommers") to a several thousand year old established Country, with people that can prove their claim to the land, in many scientific ways --gets to slice off a piece of that country.

Well, if it can happen to us, then it can happen to you in FRANCE, in the rest of Europe AND in the US of A. Everyone is watching to see how this is done.

Actually, when you think about it, Jews have been in the US BEFORE the Mayflower people. Way --way before. Oh, yes we have, in case you didnt know. Therefore using the Palistinian Template of claims ownership of a piece of land, do you think Jews can claim a separate country of our own within the US? We also were in Medina way before the Moslems came down there. Do you think we can claim parts of Medina? Maybe so. All this can be done if Palistinians can claim parts of Israel and are successful with that claim.

While we are at it. Have to see how long Jews have been in residence in France, England, Germay, Italy, SPAIN in particular-- etc. Maybe we can claim parts of those countries for our own also. Couple hundred years of residency in a specific country and WAH..LAA...you get your own country-- within that particular Country. Sounds good to me. Who said Jews should have only ONE country? Christians have many countries to call their own --as do Moslems -- Jews should also.

What works for one-- should work for all. No double standards. Lets see where the Palistinian "Ownership of Land" Template leads.

[takeo]

I parrot you to show that your words can at occastions easily used against you.

"The point was that Russian (and other) Communists and Arabists and Islamists are the same when it comes to Israel and to Jews at large. I see no difference. I know what Russian Commies-Judophobes are thinking and I can read what you are writing here. More than that, it is as hard now to find an awowed Commie anyplace else as it was after WWII for the Allies to find Nazis to bring to court. "

More than of world population are still communist.
There is a big difference, communists are against Israel for their occupation policy, russian nationalists because it is Jewish.

"Russia is today certainly better off than under Communism. No one but a few incorrigibles would wantto go back. But the main thing is the hope, openess - I meet Russians everywhere in the world today - the hope for better life. "


Did you ever visit Russia after 1991? I think not. A latest poll by a right-wing russian newspaper (Izvestia, in the hands of a tycoon) shows that 65% of Russians thought the life was the best during breznyev and stalin-years. Among elderly this was 90%. only 15% thought that their life improved after 1990. If you visit Russia you will soon notice WHY.

"The Russian red-brown scum including the CPRF somehow manage to be the most anti-Chechen and anti-Semitic. They are also anti-Arab racists, but their main stand is anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism, just like yours. "

Bullshit, anti-zionism is hardly a theme anymore in russian politics, certainly not in the CPRF. They are not anti-Arab racists, and not even anti-chechens (by the way chechens are no arabs), they are just against people wishing to take parts of Russia, separatists. They are however anti-american and anti-NATO, that's a much more important theme.




"That was in 1988, under Gorbachev, when the USSR was expiring. It had three years left to live. At that point, yes, some synagogues were restored. But under the regime of Brezhnev, a synagogue was treated as a CIA office. "

in 1988 nothing had changed so much, and i can't imagine all these synagogues were just newly opened.




"You are simply ignorant. Yes, this is exactly what they were and still are. It was nearly impossible to a Jew to join the party under Brezhnev. The Central Committee of the party had only one Jew - from Birobijan. Stalin was the chief Russian nationalist, never mind his Georgian origins. This is a well-known pattern: Hitler was not German, but Austrian and Napoleon was not French but Italian. Khruschev and Brezhnev were Russian, and no one but Russian could be the General Secretary, after the Stalin and Beria fiascos. "

There were a lot of Jews in the heighest positions in the Soviet-union. If there was only one Jew in the Central committee than it is because Jews only represented 5 % of Soviet-population, or even less. Stalin was Georgian and was the architect of the Soviet federation, the federalisation of Russia.
Austrians and germans are the same breath, they are both etnic germans and speak german. napoleon by the way was corsican, a part of France.
Khruschev and Brezhnev were both Ukrainians.



"Do you speak Russian by the way?"

ya gavariou nimnogo paruski.



raven:
"(which you will --NOT--not in Israel and not in the World) Lots of people LIVE in countries which they have not founded and are relative "newcommers". That doesnt mean they get to TAKEOVER parts of the country that they just live in and carve out another country all their own. (Much as Islam is trying to do in India, in the Pillipines, in Africa, in Israel, in China, in Eastern Europe and on and on) "
well, that's however exactly what Jews did in Palestine, wich of course explains the hatred against the newcomers.

"Until the late 50's the Arab World called these so called Palistinians "imposters". Because that is what they are! They come from Greece and Crete origionally, came to the area in waves after each incident or natural disaster happened their own area, tried to takeover one country after another, FAILED, and blended into the Arab Population. They NEVER, ever. established other then what is called ---Settlements. These Settlements never developed into any kind of full distinct country, no distinct language, no distinct culture. A full Sham. This "Palistianian" business is merely a new device to use to get rid of Israel.
Since DNA testing and advances in Carbon and other Archeological Dating, this supposed new catagory "Palistinian" has been discredited and now they are now having to switch to calling themselves, "Cannonites". They hope that will be so hard to prove or disprove that the rest of the antisemetic world can glom on to THIS new definition as an excuse to give this phony group a piece of land that they never founded, are new to, and are not entitled to. Certainly when they tried to take over Arab lands, the Arabs didnt allow it (Egypt, Jordan, Labanon) and we wont either. "

where did you find this **** theory? Do you have one historic research, one historic work to proove your "theory"? Or is it just another scam theory to legitimise Israeli occupation and presence.
Almost all historians recognised that palestinians lived in palestine for more than 2000 years, even most Israeli ones.

"No never mind to YOU that a group just migrating lately( in the Middle East a couple hundred years qualifies as "newcommers") to a several thousand year old established Country, with people that can prove their claim to the land, in many scientific ways --gets to slice off a piece of that country. "

nobody can claim a land they left 1000's of years ago, and even if they continued there living as a minority, than this minority has the right to continue living there, but can not claim the whole country for itself.

"Well, if it can happen to us, then it can happen to you in FRANCE, in the rest of Europe AND in the US of A. Everyone is watching to see how this is done.
Actually, when you think about it, Jews have been in the US BEFORE the Mayflower people. Way --way before. Oh, yes we have, in case you didnt know. Therefore using the Palistinian Template of claims ownership of a piece of land, do you think Jews can claim a separate country of our own within the US? We also were in Medina way before the Moslems came down there. Do you think we can claim parts of Medina? Maybe so. All this can be done if Palistinians can claim parts of Israel and are successful with that claim.
While we are at it. Have to see how long Jews have been in residence in France, England, Germay, Italy, SPAIN in particular-- etc. Maybe we can claim parts of those countries for our own also. Couple hundred years of residency in a specific country and WAH..LAA...you get your own country-- within that particular Country. Sounds good to me. Who said Jews should have only ONE country? Christians have many countries to call their own --as do Moslems -- Jews should also. "

Ok, now you are making ridicuous your own statement that Jews have the right to claim all of Palestine because they lived there 1000's years ago.
If a country is inhabited by a people as a majority for hundreds of years than it is theirs. This is everywhere so in the world, can you give me one counter-example? Besides, current Jews are not the same the left israel 2000 years ago, they mixed with Europeans, moroccans, etc. and adopted culture from everywhere they came. Palestinians mixed with all the people who came along in palestine, even the crucifiers. Their historic bound with the land is indeniably stronger than the Jews.

"What works for one-- should work for all. No double standards. ."

exactly

[aid]

Vy govorite po-russki?

Nu togda ya nadeyus' chto vse vragi evreyskogo naroda - vsya krasno-korichnevaya svoloch' sdokhnut nezamedlitel'no.


Ihr ret af Yiddisch euch?

Then I will say about all the today's persecutors of the Jewish people - Nazis, Fascists, Communists, Arabists, Islamists:

Farbrennt zoll zey verdn.

[raven]

READ ALL ABOUT IT! TakeO in "From Time Immemorial" by J. Peters. ALL of what I said about the so called "Palistinians" is true. Read All About It in Joseph Farah Columns at www.worldnetdaily...He is an Arab and he knows who is who, and who are imposters. Show me the "DNA". Jews--yes even Jews that were FORCED (not left) OUT of Israel, forced to live in other places for centuries--have been found to have changed barely from their ancestors...All DNA evidence, all proven, all before you could stop us from proving our claims. We are just who we say we are, and the Palistinians are NOT who they say they are.

[raven]

Myths of the Middle East

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© 2000 WorldNetDaily.com


I've been quiet since Israel erupted in fighting spurred by disputes over the Temple Mount.

Until now, I haven't even bothered to say, "See, I told you so." But I can't resist any longer. I feel compelled to remind you of the column I wrote just a couple weeks before the latest uprising. Yeah, folks, I predicted it. That's OK. Hold your applause.

After all, I wish I had been wrong. More than 80 people have been killed since the current fighting in and around Jerusalem began. And for what?

If you believe what you read in most news sources, Palestinians want a homeland and Muslims want control over sites they consider holy. Simple, right?

Well, as an Arab-American journalist who has spent some time in the Middle East dodging more than my share of rocks and mortar shells, I've got to tell you that these are just phony excuses for the rioting, trouble-making and land-grabbing.

Isn't it interesting that prior to the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, there was no serious movement for a Palestinian homeland?

"Well, Farah," you might say, "that was before the Israelis seized the West Bank and Old Jerusalem."

That's true. In the Six-Day War, Israel captured Judea, Samaria and East Jerusalem. But they didn't capture these territories from Yasser Arafat. They captured them from Jordan's King Hussein. I can't help but wonder why all these Palestinians suddenly discovered their national identity after Israel won the war.

******The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power.

Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

What about Islam's holy sites? There are none in Jerusalem.

Shocked? You should be. I don't expect you will ever hear this brutal truth from anyone else in the international media. It's just not politically correct.

I know what you're going to say: "Farah, the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem represent Islam's third most holy sites."

Not true. In fact, the Koran says nothing about Jerusalem. It mentions Mecca hundreds of times. It mentions Medina countless times. It never mentions Jerusalem. With good reason. There is no historical evidence to suggest Mohammed ever visited Jerusalem.

So how did Jerusalem become the third holiest site of Islam? Muslims today cite a vague passage in the Koran, the seventeenth Sura, entitled "The Night Journey." It relates that in a dream or a vision Mohammed was carried by night "from the sacred temple to the temple that is most remote, whose precinct we have blessed, that we might show him our signs. ..." In the seventh century, some Muslims identified the two temples mentioned in this verse as being in Mecca and Jerusalem. And that's as close as Islam's connection with Jerusalem gets -- myth, fantasy, wishful thinking. Meanwhile, Jews can trace their roots in Jerusalem back to the days of Abraham.

The latest round of violence in Israel erupted when Likud Party leader Ariel Sharon tried to visit the Temple Mount, the foundation of the Temple built by Solomon. It is the holiest site for Jews. Sharon and his entourage were met with stones and threats. I know what it's like. I've been there. Can you imagine what it is like for Jews to be threatened, stoned and physically kept out of the holiest site in Judaism?

So what's the solution to the Middle East mayhem? Well, frankly, I don't think there is a man-made solution to the violence. But, if there is one, it needs to begin with truth. Pretending will only lead to more chaos. Treating a 5,000-year-old birthright backed by overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence equally with illegitimate claims, wishes and wants gives diplomacy and peacekeeping a bad name.


SO THERE IS IS. THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER!!


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Joseph Farah is editor and chief executive officer of WorldNetDaily.com and writes a daily column. Get an autographed, first-edition copy of Joseph Farah's 1996 book, "This Land Is Our Land," published by St. Martin's Press.