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Thread: Winograd report: Olmert, Peretz, Halutz failed in their roles

  1. #1
    sharonbn
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    Winograd report: Olmert, Peretz, Halutz failed in their roles

    Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister Amir Peretz, and former IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz all failed in their roles during the Second Lebanon War, Judge Eliyahu Winograd said at a press conference in which he presented his report into the war's failings.

    The retired judge said the prime minister "formulated his stance without a second thought, without being presented with a detailed military plan, without considering the complex conditions of fighting in Lebanon.

    There was no organized consultation with others, mainly outside of army, despite his lack of diplomatic and military experience," Winograd said.

    "The prime minister is responsible for failing to clearly set out the aims of the war, and for there not being a clear definition of aims of war and ways to achieve them. The war's aims were ambitious, and could not be reached. They were not within reach. All of these factors come together to form a serious failure of judgment, responsibility, and caution," he added.

    "The decision to go forward with a harsh, immediate military response was not taken on the basis of a well-planned strategy," Winograd said.

    "The IDF's response would result in massive fire on the home front, which the IDF didn't have an answer to. There was no information on the state of the army, despite the need for such information," he continued.

    "The IDF didn't show creativity in making options available," Winograd said. "It didn't demand that reserves be called up, which would have allowed them to be trained and equipped ahead of a needed ground operation.

    "The main responsibility for these severe failures are placed on the prime minister, the defense minister, and the former chief of staff. Had they acted differently, the results would have been different," Winograd said.

    Peretz, Halutz slammed

    Turning to Defense Minister Amir Peretz, Winograd said: "He has no knowledge or experience on diplomatic, military, government affairs.

    He has no knowledge on the use of the military as tool to achieve goals. Nevertheless, he took decisions without consultation, and didn't give enough weight to contrary views. He failed to fulfil his role, and he didn't act out on the basis of a strategic plan."

    Winograd continued: "He didn't demand or examine the army's plans. He didn't check the methods of the IDF, its plans, and its set targets.

    Addressing the performance of former chief of staff Dan Halutz, Winograd stated: "His personal involvement in government decisions was dominant. He was not ready for the kidnapping. He acted impulsively."

    "The chief of staff's culpability is made more severe in light of the fact that he knew that the prime minister and the defense minister had no experience, and his claim that the army was ready and had plan. He had no real answer to the doubts raised over the plan, and didn't present any to the political leadership. In all these areas, the chief of staff failed to fulfill his role, and he did not act with responsibility, good judgment, and professionalism."

    Government also at fault

    Winograd added that "many others" shared responsibility for the severe failures he highlighted, and turned his attention to previous Israeli governments which allowed Hizbullah to set up base on Israel's border.

    "The complexity of Lebanese arena is not under Israeli control. The ability of Hizbullah to sit on the border, and dictate the level of escalation, was made possible by the 2000 retreat of the IDF from southern Lebanon. IDF commanders and political leaders are responsible for internal IDF failures before the prime minister and the defense minister came in," he said.

    Winograd also laid blame at the remainder of the government for its "support for an immediate response out of unjustified faith in the decision makers."

    "For 25 years, there hasn't been a war. The IDF was not ready for war, for a number of reasons, among them being that the political and military leaders decided that the age of wars has ended, and that the IDF had enough deterrence power and ability to deliver painful reminders to those who didn't know that," Winograd said.

    "The challenges of ground forces were thought to remain in dealing with ongoing low intensity clashes. According to such view, there is no need to prepare for war or update Israel's general defense approach. We believe that we must look beyond the decision making failures, at these issues which form central questions, raised by the Lebanon War," he added.

    "These are the questions standing at the heart of our existence as a Jewish and democratic state," Winograd continued.

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...393887,00.html

  2. #2
    sharonbn
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    I have to say although it is no big surprise, I am still stricken with sadness and disappointment. I did believe in the ability of Amir Peretz to make a positive change and to make a long lasting difference. It seems now that Olmert gov't will go down in history as the loser of the second Lebanon war.

  3. #3
    Gilgamesh
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharonbn View Post
    I have to say although it is no big surprise, I am still stricken with sadness and disappointment. I did believe in the ability of Amir Peretz to make a positive change and to make a long lasting difference. It seems now that Olmert gov't will go down in history as the loser of the second Lebanon war.
    Well, yeah... This prooves many things about you, and about extrem Leftists in Israel such as yourselves. You live in orbit! You have to try first all the things we normals consider to be obvious. Tragedy is that each of your misjudgements cost us many lives: Oslo first then the second intefeda, the withdrawl of lebanon, 2nd Lebanon war...

    Isn't high time you people admit that you're morons, and leave governing in the real life to people with common sense such as us normals?

  4. #4
    Gilgamesh
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    Our greatest humiliation

    Our greaterst humiliation that even after the publication of partial report, Olmert doesn't quit his position.

    It reminds me of Thailand a year ago. They had a PM so curropt they Thai people had strikes and demonstrated for monthes to get rid of him. Untill the king, gave the nod to his army generals, who took the power to their own hands, and very soon a new Thai PM took the oath of duty before the king.

    This model, also recalls us the situation in Turky, where the army has always the last word, as dictated by their constitution.

    Everybody in Israel would be very pleased if Ashkenazy would march to Jerusalem and despose Katzav, Olmert and Peretz and arrange early elections where all the members of the current goverment are banned from being elected.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharonbn View Post
    I have to say although it is no big surprise, I am still stricken with sadness and disappointment. I did believe in the ability of Amir Peretz to make a positive change and to make a long lasting difference.
    So did I- but I never believed that this difference would be for the better. Peretz is incompetence personified. Always has been.

    It seems now that Olmert gov't will go down in history as the loser of the second Lebanon war.
    If not as the biggest bunch of losers to ever head a state.

    Kadima in ferment after Winograd report

    Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was critically injured by the interim Winograd Report released Monday and has no chance of surviving the final report expected in July, a senior Kadima official said on Monday.

    The senior official, who had intended to defend Olmert in the press, instead eulogized him privately. But no one in Kadima was willing to say on the record on Monday that the prime minister had to resign.

    "Olmert cannot remain prime minister after such a report," the senior official said. "The responsibility on his shoulders is too broad. The final report will be much more severe. If Olmert does not leave on his own, Kadima will have to force him out."

    Minister-without-Portfolio Eitan Cabel, of Labor, suggested that Olmert should resign and hinted that he was considering quiting the government as well.

    "The report struck a fatal blow for Olmert but the burden of responsibility is on my shoulders as well," Cabel said. "We can't ignore what the report says about us ministers."

    Labor leadership candidate Ami Ayalon announced Tuesday that after finishing reading the 150 page Winograd interim report, he had decided Prime Minister Ehud Olmert must quit.

    Ayalon went on national TV Sunday evening to say that he did not believe Olmert should quit, but added that after reading the entire report, he decided that its conclusions were harsher than the leaks of the report that were broadcast Friday.

    "The report found that Olmert and the Israeli leadership had failed personally and therefore the prime minister should not be allowed to continue in that position," Ayalon said.

    Both Olmert and Defense Minister Amir Peretz vowed to remain in office despite calls from across the political spectrum for them to resign for their "failures" in handling the Second Lebanon War according to the report.

    A Channel 2 poll taken after the report was released found that 65 percent of Israelis believe Olmert should quit and 75% that Peretz should resign. Only 14% said Olmert should remain in office and 10% that Peretz should stay. Fifty-three percent said Israel should go to elections.

    In a separate question on who they would vote for, the poll found that 26% of Israelis believe that Likud chairman Binyamin Netanyahu should be prime minister, followed by Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni (9%), former prime minister Ehud Barak (6%), Labor MK Ami Ayalon (5%), Vice Premier Shimon Peres (4%), Israel Beiteinu leader Avigdor Lieberman (3%), billionaire Arkadi Gaydamak (2%) and Peretz (1%). Olmert received zero percent in the poll, Channel 2 said.

    Olmert convened Kadima ministers following the report's release and none of them overtly criticized him. But Livni and Public Security Minister Avi Dichter raised eyebrows in the meeting when they said they needed to read the report before expressing their opinions.

    Livni used the meeting to deny that she was trying to topple Olmert. "In the last few days, people have tried to drag me into a personal political fight, but I don't intend to play that game," Livni said. "There is nothing personal between me and the prime minister."

    Livni's loyalists said she checked with Olmert and he denied reports in the Hebrew press that he intended to fire her to avenge her recent political activity.

    Most Kadima MKs adopted the prime minister's line of opposing early elections but some MKs, such as Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee chairman Tzahi Hanegbi, refused to conform.

    "The prime minister must ask himself, in light of the circumstances, if he has the authority and ability to lead the government now, and if he has the power to repair the failures that were revealed," Hanegbi said. "If the answer to both these questions is negative, he will have to reach his own conclusions."

    Kadima MK Yoel Hasson typified the government's response, calling on the Israeli public to have patience and let the Olmert government implement the recommendations of the report.

    Hizbullah's Sheikh Nasrallah "did not manage to win the war - don't let him win it now," Hasson said. "The report should be read with professionalism, and not be turned into a political battering ram. The prime minister must implement necessary changes in his government and begin by studying the report, reaching conclusions and implementing lessons to prepare for coming challenges."

    Olmert's coalition partners gave no indication that they intend to threaten the stability of his government. Israel Beiteinu released a statement reminding voters that the party joined the coalition only after the war in an effort to fix many of the problems identified in the report.

    Shas leader Eli Yishai said the report must not be used as a "starting point for an internal battle. The report must provide an opportunity for a common revival of all parts of Israel."

    Labor MKs were hesitant to express an opinion on the report, with only the candidates that are challenging Peretz for the party leadership calling on the defense minister to step down from his post.

    MK Ophir Paz-Pines said that "the prime minister and the defense minister must stand up and accept responsibility and resign, and not just hang on." He said that if Olmert and Peretz didn't quit, the public should protest in the streets.

    Labor faction chairman MK Yoram Marciano announced that the Labor faction would gather this week to discuss the commission's report.

    "Israel and its leaders must learn the operational lessons as soon as possible," said Marciano. "We must not use the committee's conclusions to chop heads, but to look forward and prepare for the next war."

    Likud MKs led the right-wing parties in calling for the government to step down immediately, but Likud leader Binyamin Netanyahu declined to enter the fray and gave no interviews.

    "The report leads to just one conclusion: The failed government no longer has moral validity to rule. It must return the mandate to the people immediately," said Likud faction chairman Gideon Sa'ar.

    Likud MK Silvan Shalom said the report was a damning indictment against the Olmert government and called for new elections.

    "There's no more room for survival games and political manipulations. I will act by any means possible to bring down this government," Shalom said.

    Meretz Faction chairwoman MK Zehava Gal-On was the only opposition MK to criticize the report - for not issuing harsh enough recommendations.

    "What the commission should have said and didn't say was that 'Olmert and Peretz should go home,'" said Gal-On. "While its criticisms against the prime minister and defense minister are sharp, the minute there aren't operative conclusions and there's no eviction notice, the commission's conclusions have no moral force."

    Meretz chairman MK Yossi Beilin said the report's conclusions "leave no room for interpretation," and that Peretz and Olmert must resign and leave the political realm entirely.


    Can anyone remember any head of state ever, in any country at any time, having the approval rating of ZERO?
    “This is a reality but I won’t deal with it in terms of recognizing or admitting it.”

    Khaled Mashaal, Hamas leader

  6. #6
    KettleWhistle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post
    Well, yeah... This prooves many things about you, and about extrem Leftists in Israel such as yourselves. You live in orbit! You have to try first all the things we normals consider to be obvious. Tragedy is that each of your misjudgements cost us many lives: Oslo first then the second intefeda, the withdrawl of lebanon, 2nd Lebanon war...

    Isn't high time you people admit that you're morons, and leave governing in the real life to people with common sense such as us normals?
    Well said. You'd think while the blood of Oslo still drips from their hand, they would at least issue an apology, hang their heads in shame, and admit that every action of theirs has been damaging this country. Yet we never gotten a single apology from the Oslo traitors, not even when they admitted that it was a mistake.

    Reminds of Benny Morris saying that Oslo couldn't possibly work, but it had to be done. That's the logic of these parasites that enjoy the benefits of a society and do everything to destroy it.

  7. #7
    Gilgamesh
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    Quote Originally Posted by KettleWhistle View Post
    Well said. You'd think while the blood of Oslo still drips from their hand, they would at least issue an apology, hang their heads in shame, and admit that every action of theirs has been damaging this country. Yet we never gotten a single apology from the Oslo traitors, not even when they admitted that it was a mistake.

    Reminds of Benny Morris saying that Oslo couldn't possibly work, but it had to be done. That's the logic of these parasites that enjoy the benefits of a society and do everything to destroy it.
    Like the story of the axe murderer, who choped people for the sake of scientific curiousity.

    We normals knew Barak, and later Olmeret Perez were a disaster. I never had to go through the experimination on humans to know these are charecters are failurs. I never wished to see the disengaement happened so I'll be sure it's a failur in every moral level.

  8. #8
    sharonbn
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    you two are the quintessential example of "there is no joy like the joy of gloating".
    I'm glad you feel gratification.

  9. #9
    KettleWhistle
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    Who's gloating? The people that whose blood is on leftists' hands? The people in the North who were abandoned both during and after the Lebanon war? Holocaust survivors living in poverty because people like you just sit on funds and wouldn't give them what's rightfully theirs? The country of Israel that you are destroying with your corruption and your pseudo-democracy?

    Please do tell.

  10. #10
    golani
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    Quote Originally Posted by KettleWhistle View Post
    Who's gloating? The people that whose blood is on leftists' hands? The people in the North who were abandoned both during and after the Lebanon war? Holocaust survivors living in poverty because people like you just sit on funds and wouldn't give them what's rightfully theirs? The country of Israel that you are destroying with your corruption and your pseudo-democracy?

    Please do tell.
    I see that olmert ,the failure and peretz, the binoculars man have not resigned yet sigh... eurabia 18h15)
    I expect better news from sarkozy and royal becassine tv debate this night...

  11. #11
    sharonbn
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    It seems that Olmert's days are numbered, calls for his resignation now come from within his party, Kadima:Livni calls on Olmert to resign and also Coalition chairman, MK Avigdor Itzchaky who resigned himself.

    This also seems to be the concensus among Israelis now.

    and last (and least), who joins the gloating choir of the Israeli extreme right? see for yourself.

  12. #12
    sharonbn
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    there is a strong smell of elections in the Israeli thick hazy air...

  13. #13
    Senior Member Kenneth's Avatar
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    I hope no one's expecting to much from Sarkozy with regard to Israel and the current pro Arab slant of the French ruling/business class. Despite Old Nick's abundant energy and his liking for centralising power around himself he'd still have a jungle of well established French-Arab connections to hack through and most of his attention would be focused on the French economy. The 600,000 Jews in France would be well advised to choose their candidates for other reasons. Remember François Mitterrand? after he'd collected a hefty chunk of the Jewish vote he went and had Arafat over for tea.
    As a youth I used to weep in butcher's shops.

  14. #14
    sharonbn
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    Kenneth, sorry to bust your bubble... but French influence in Israel in particular and ME in general is not that great.

  15. #15
    Senior Member NewsGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post
    Our greaterst humiliation that even after the publication of partial report, Olmert doesn't quit his position.
    The greatest humiliation might be that Olmert is still in power after being involved in financial and political corruption, the extreme brutality at Amona, and most of all, the Gaza expulsion. Losing the 2nd Lebanon war is not even as bad as losing Gush Katif.

    If he didn't resign voluntarily, he should have been forced out of office along time ago. The fact that he wasn't kicked out, shows that Israeli society is at fault for allowing such people to lead the country.

    Unfortunately, I don't see any other politicians who are worthy of leading after the Olmert era is over.

    Livni? She should be kicked out for failing at her current job of FM. Israel has never had such a poor international presence.

    Netanyahu? He's too busy defending himself against his own party's backstabbers to be an effective leader.

    Who else is there? There are no more great politicians in Israel -- just small-time corrupt opportunists.

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