Chag Sameach!

[Noam]

UNREAL
Memri published a collection (COmpendium) of open discussions taking place recently in Egypt FOR AND AGAINST CLITORECTOMY.

FOR:
1.'Circumcision is the Merit of Girls'
2.For example, Dr. Munir Muhammad Fawzy, a specialist in gynecology and obstetrics at 'Ein Shams University Medical School, cites the following traditions as backing for his support of the practice: "The Prophet [Muhammad] commanded women to perform circumcision using the expression, 'Perform circumcision for girls.'" This phrase, he says, includes a clear endorsement of circumcision under specific circumstances,...
3.Dr. Ahmad Suleiman of Cairo University: 'Circumcising a Girl Brings Modesty, Honor, and Emotional Balance'
4.Muslims have been practicing this tradition for thousands of years eliminates any claims that it is detrimental to sexuality.
5.Circumcising Girls Prevents AIDS and Prostitution
6.The Attempt to Prevent Circumcising Girls is a Western Conspiracy
7.Circumcising Girls Prevents Unnatural Sexual Pleasure ...
AGAINST:
1.First Lady Suzanne Mubarak: 'Women's Humanity Must No Longer be Forfeit'
2.Chief Justice Khalil: 'Circumcision - A Criminal Offense Sanctioned by the Authorities'
3.Former Al-Azhar Sheikh: 'Nothing Religious, Moral, or Medical Requires Circumcising Girls'
4.Halima Warzazi, a UN representative to the conference, said that education was the most effective weapon in the war against circumcising girls "because it answers the community's need to cling to its cultural tradition." [11]


source: http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=IA15203

Can you believe this ?
This is a country that gets 2.1 billion aid from The US and still practices CLITORECTOMY

ALL THE MEN IN EGYPT SHOULD BE CASTRATED!!

[Noam]

Or even this :

This is what we can expect in the WEST if we DO NOT STOP ISLAM!!!

READ AND VOMIT!

http://rawa.fancymarketing.net/murder-w.htm

[Noam]

oops

[Donna]

I know about that custom, practice, whatever the frick someone chooses to call it.

They can just piss right off. It is a barbaric mutilation.

[andak01]

Originally posted by Noam
"The Prophet [Muhammad] commanded...

The difference between you and me, I care when someone ascribes words to Prophet Muhammad (SAW), what the source of those words is and how reliable.

[Noam]

Originally posted by andak01
The difference between you and me, I care when someone ascribes words to Prophet Muhammad (SAW), what the source of those words is and how reliable.

HUH??????

Of all the things in that article translated by MEMRI you choose to quibble with a quote from an Egyptian doctor?

"For example, Dr. Munir Muhammad Fawzy, a specialist in gynecology and obstetrics at 'Ein Shams University Medical School, cites the following traditions as backing for his support of the practice: "The Prophet [Muhammad] commanded "...

The rest of the context does not bother you?!

[andak01]

Originally posted by Noam
HUH??????

Of all the things in that article translated by MEMRI you choose to quibble with a quote from an Egyptian doctor?

Yep. Because, as I've written numerous times, this is already a practice known outside of Muslim society throughout North Africa. I don't recall hearing of any cases in Indonesia for example.

But in case you believe that no Muslims are speaking out against this practice, guess again. Here is a very proper Muslim scholar who lectures in Dubai who is against the practice, as am I.

http://www.iol.ie/~afifi/BICNews/Islam/islam31.htm
Philips was also seeking to dissociate Islam from abuses he believes are sometimes, wrongly, linked to it.

In his view, for example, the sort of terrorism recently practiced against civilian tourists and Copts in Egypt by terrorists and many of the actions of the Iraqi "tyrant" Saddam Hussein are abhorrent to Islam.

He said violence between military forces is one thing but there is nothing in Muslim teachings that warrants violence that targets civilians. Muslims in western countries can be criticized for not speaking out more clearly on this, he said.

"Silence is consent", he said, using a phrase he may have picked up during his pre-Muslim days as a political activist.

Excision of any great part of girls' genitalia, as practiced in some cultures, is also forbidden, he said. Religious clitorectomy is nowhere required by Islam and is not practiced by the vast majority of the world's Muslims. In areas where clitorectomy exists, he said, the practice pre-dated the arrival of Islam and is also practiced by local people of other faiths.

Philips said there is a teaching of Mohammed to the effect that, if clitorectomy is carried out it should be confined to a small piece from tip of clitoris. Philips said this scarring would have little effect on sexual activity and could be compared to male circumcision.

But Philips said it is "justified and legitimate" to outlaw clitorectomy altogether, as Egypt did recently.


http://bilalphilips.com/

The rest of the context does not bother you?!

Ignorance always bothers me. Ignorant people who proliferate false teachings in the name of Islam bother me more. And Allah knows best.

[Frans_1]

Yep. Because, as I've written numerous times, this is already a practice known outside of Muslim society throughout North Africa. I don't recall hearing of any cases in Indonesia for example.

Footbinding used to be a Chinese cultural practice until the fall of the Qings. I won't deny that this [u]was[i] an accepted thing in the culture of China, but that it isn't any longer.

What is an accepted "norm" in a society, whatever it's dominant philosophy ? When does this "norm" become rejected as society progresses ?

[#13]

Happy Shavuot!

[einherjer]

Hag Shme'ach!

[Illuminatus]

A couple of "Religion of Peace" scholars sitting around shooting the breeze discussing the legitimacy of cutting clitoris'.

MEMRI TV

[..Al-Azhar University Scholars Argue over the Legitimacy of Female Circumcision Practiced in Egypt on Al-Arabiya TV

The following are excerpts from a TV debate between Egyptian Al-Azhar University scholars Sheikh Muhammad Al-Mussayar [1] and Sheikh Mahmoud Ashur, who is a member of Al-Azhar's Islamic ResearchAcademy (or Islamic Research Council) on the issue of female circumcision. The debate aired on Al-Arabiya TV on February 12, 2007. ..]

quote

Mahmoud Ashur : "Female circumcision is a traditional custom, and not a religious act. All the hadiths dealing with female circumcision are unreliable. Moreover, the hadith cited by those who support circumcision calls to refrain from it more than it calls to perform it.

[...]

Muhammad Al-Mussayar: "All the jurisprudents, since the advent of Islam and for 14 centuries or more, are in consensus that female circumcision is permitted by Islam. But they were divided with regard to its status in shari'a.

Some said that female circumcision is required by shari'a, just like male circumcision. Some said this is the mainstream practice, while others said it is a noble act. But throughout the history of Islam, nobody has ever said that performing female circumcision is a crime. There has been a religious ruling on this for 14 centuries."

Mahmoud Ashur: "In the days of Jahiliya [i.e. the pre-Islamic period] and in the early days of Islam, a man whose mother carried out this custom was scorned by people who called him 'you son of a clitoris cutter.'

[...]

Muhammad Al-Mussayar: "First of all, allow me... Regarding the claim that the instruments are not sterile - this is the reality and is not part of religious law. If there are dentists who do not sterilize their instruments, should we abolish medical faculties and dental clinics, or should we demand that they rectify the situation? Flawed reality cannot serve as a religious argument.

The claim that female circumcision leads to barrenness is not true.

The Muslim woman bears more children than any other woman. It is the Western woman who is barren, even though she is not circumcised. Moreover, when talking about nervous breakdowns... This is considered a day of celebration for the family."

Interviewer: "A day of celebration for the family?! Let me begin with the psychological effects. According to some studies, when there is a celebration, and sweets are given to the girl, and then an act is performed in which the girl's flesh is cut off... ..]

http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=1392

^_^

[andak01]

So as I understand it, we have here a respected Sheikh from Al Azhar, saying that female circumcision is forbidden in Islam, that it should absolutely never be performed, that it is a custom, not a rule of Islam and another saying, not that it is obligatory, but merely that it is permitted.

SHOULDN'T THE WORDS OF THE SHEIKH WHO SPEAKS OUT AGAINST FEMALE CIRCUMCISION BE HEEDED???

OR ARE WE JUST BEING SENSATIONAL BY GIVING MORE AIR TIME TO THE EXTREME VIEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AT BEST, ONE COULD SAY IT IS SOMETHING PERMITTED WHICH LEADS TO A LOT OF HARM. DON'T DO IT!! IT'S NOT REQUIRED!

[Illuminatus]

EXTREME VIEW

?

Just another routine discussion among Scholars on Al-Arabiya TV -- nothing extreme here --

^_^

[KettleWhistle]

"Female circumcision" is a misguiding term. There is no circumcision performed, and a clitoris is an anatomical equivalent of glans of the penis in males ("head" in common language). There are various degrees of it, where it ranges from poking it with a needle to get a drop of blood, as done among the Bedouins in Israel, to cutting it off completely. Either way, the procedure is akin to either completely or incompletely cutting off half of a man's penis to poking a penis with a needle in order to produce a symbolic drop of blood.

It is not circumcision.

[andak01]

That's true. So, let's assume the worst and change the title of the thread from what the MEMRI clip reads. Or we could call it "amputations" and imply that maybe and arm or leg comes off in the process! That wasn't aimed at you Kettle.