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Thread: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

  1. #61
    Brody15
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by andak01 View Post
    Well just how effective is violence as a means of spreading anything? After all, Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world by population and Islam wasn't spread by violence there.
    Awesome, violence is not effective, then Muslims should stop doing it.

  2. #62
    Rob
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by andak01 View Post
    I was not taught then, nor have I yet been taught that Islam must be spread with violence.
    Hmmm, your favorite imaam, the one you say like to follow, clearly states that if the numbers are unfavorable for Muslims, a Muslim should act like a wolf inside sheep clothes. When the numbers change, the Muslim can become a full wolf again...What do you mean you have never been taught violence??? Your favorite imaam says so...following the foot steps of the great examplar!

    Nobody in here believes one bit of your deceiving game!

  3. #63
    Senior Member Sanket's Avatar
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    ^ His Imam is a moderate for the time being. Right now he must be teaching how to spread Islam by marring non-Muslims and how to stop Muslim girls from marrying non-musims (Girls can marry non-muslim if he chooses to convert to Islam), then how to learn Arabic (Andak - Can you conform it ?), and all the minute details of Islam like beard size, pant size, etc.
    Mountain look very spectacular from distance. Prostitutes look very beautiful when they make-up. War stories are very interesting. All these three things are interesting from distance.

  4. #64
    andak01
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by scattergood View Post
    Again, totally false analogies. Violence is a perfectly effective way of spreading a religion, as you constantly point out vis a vis Christianity and the Indians.
    Violence and genocide only are effective ways of silencing dissent if the genocide is complete. That hasn't happened with Jews or Hindus or Armenians or Tutsis any other group that can still have a dialogue about their past. I suppose a good example of total annihilation would be the Midianites.

    Go ask the populations of the Balkans, North Africa, Turkey, the Levant, the Caucuses, the Indus River Valley, the Hindu Kush, etc. about violence and the spread of Islam. Islamic colonization and replacement of the Christian, Hindu, Zororastrian and anamist religions of the Islamic empire is drenched in blood.
    As was the bloody incursion of Christianity over Europe, North and South America.

    Just as Christian expansion has included massive amounts of force as well.
    Glad we agree on that.

    And therein lies the big difference. It DOES happen with Islamic expansion today, it DID happen with Christian expansion. Thanks for making the most important point.
    But, just as with Christian expansion, that violence is neither a necessary part of core doctrine, nor the only way the religion is spread.

  5. #65
    andak01
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    Hmmm, your favorite imaam, the one you say like to follow, clearly states that if the numbers are unfavorable for Muslims, a Muslim should act like a wolf inside sheep clothes.
    Not sure which imaam you are referring to, but yes, there have been secret Muslims, secret Jews and secret Christians. All of the early Christians were acting outwardly as pagans or they were killed in horrible ways.


    When the numbers change, the Muslim can become a full wolf again...
    How is that different from Jews in Europe that hid from the Nazis and today proudly show their religion? It's not being a wolf to act like who you are when not faced with extinction. Nor is it anything to be ashamed of.

    What do you mean you have never been taught violence??? Your favorite imaam says so...following the foot steps of the great examplar!
    Just stop saying favorite imaam. You don't know my favorite imaam. He's the one that married me to my lovely wife.

    Nobody in here believes one bit of your deceiving game!
    Perhaps because they have been deceived into believing that Muslims are more dishonest than the rest of the world.

  6. #66
    andak01
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by shravan View Post
    ^ His Imam is a moderate for the time being. Right now he must be teaching how to spread Islam by marring non-Muslims and how to stop Muslim girls from marrying non-musims (Girls can marry non-muslim if he chooses to convert to Islam), then how to learn Arabic (Andak - Can you conform it ?), and all the minute details of Islam like beard size, pant size, etc.
    That wouldn't be terribly effective. For one thing, if I had married a Christian or Jewish woman, which Islam allows, there is no compulsion on her to convert. As for learning Arabic, Greek Orthodox children learn Greek, Jews learn Hebrew and many Hindus learn Sanskrit. So what? What you should fear is people who want to know less, not those who want to learn more. After all, I field more criticism here for not having perfected my Arabic than for studying it. Thanks, again everyone for the encouragement!

  7. #67
    Senior Member bararallu's Avatar
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by andak01 View Post
    violence is neither a necessary part of core doctrine, nor the only way the religion is spread.
    Absolutely contrary to reality. How many Jews do we have in Arabia Andak?

  8. #68
    Senior Member Sanket's Avatar
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by andak01 View Post
    As for learning Arabic, Greek Orthodox children learn Greek, Jews learn Hebrew and many Hindus learn Sanskrit. So what?
    Thanks for Conforming it. I had my reasons to ask it and that was a great example.

    Some people here might understand what i am thinking...
    Mountain look very spectacular from distance. Prostitutes look very beautiful when they make-up. War stories are very interesting. All these three things are interesting from distance.

  9. #69
    Senior Member bararallu's Avatar
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    I learned Greek for a while, had nothing to do with the Greek Orthodox Church.

  10. #70
    andak01
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by bararallu View Post
    Absolutely contrary to reality. How many Jews do we have in Arabia Andak?
    No. The reality of it is that there were Jews in Arabia until the death of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) under complete control of the Muslims. There were Jews allowed under Saladin and there were Jews throughout the Ottoman Empire as evidenced from the fact, repeated here often that there were many Jews within Palestine and throughout the Middle East far prior to the creation of Israel. In fact, during many periods of history and in many places, their numbers increased while under Muslim rule.

    What is true is that any preexisting persecutions of Jews within Muslim lands, and I certainly don't deny that, has increased many fold since the creation of Israel. That points to a political struggle rather than a religious obligation. Any religious obligation to exterminate all of the Jews could have long ago been achieved at least to the extent that Europeans were able to empty their nations of Jews multiple times during the Middle Ages. What we see upon studying Muslim rule is persecution and inequity, but not any preference for genocide. Most certainly any long standing Muslim violence against Jews does not supercede the levels found across Europe up until after THE Holocaust.

    My point is that there cannot have been 14 centuries of fanatical, religiously obligated genociders in the Arabian penninsula AND Yemeni airlifts of close to 50,000 Yemeni Jews AND still Jews living in Yemen. It doesn't take 14 centuries to ethnically cleanse that small an area. That would particularly be the case in a sparcely populated region like Yemen. That would be even more the case if one was to believe that every Muslim Yemeni felt religiously obligated to kill his Jewish neighbor during a period of centuries of Muslim rule.

  11. #71
    andak01
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by shravan View Post
    Thanks for Conforming it. I had my reasons to ask it and that was a great example.

    Some people here might understand what i am thinking...
    I would be surprised to understand that you ARE thinking! Amish children study German, Catholics for centuries studied Latin, etc. Are we supposed to believe that there is anything more sinister about a Muslim studying Arabic than a Jew studying Hebrew. And please anyone correct me if I am wrong, isn't it a religious obligation among Jewish converts to know Hebrew prior to being confirmed? Such is not the case with Muslims knowing Arabic.

  12. #72
    scattergood
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by andak01 View Post
    Violence and genocide only are effective ways of silencing dissent if the genocide is complete. That hasn't happened with Jews or Hindus or Armenians or Tutsis any other group that can still have a dialogue about their past. I suppose a good example of total annihilation would be the Midianites.
    I love it. Hundreds of Millions of Jews, Christians, Hindus, Zororastrians, and anamists butchered and murdered by the Muslims and what's your response? Yeah, it isn't effective since the Muslims haven't killed ALL the Jews, Christians, Hindus, Zororastrians, and anamists. Thank you for showing yourself to be the true believer we knew you were, the apologist for centuries of rape, murder, and forced conversion by Muslims, and the supporter / rationalizer / and enabler of jihad.


    As was the bloody incursion of Christianity over Europe, North and South America.
    And yet you can't but help contradict yourself in the very next sentence. So Islamic rape, murder, subjugation and forced conversion is a bloody incursion, but the well documented, seemingly intrinsic theological nature of similar behavior by Muslims is just, in your own words 'only effective if the genocide is complete'. Nice.



    But, just as with Christian expansion, that violence is neither a necessary part of core doctrine, nor the only way the religion is spread.
    Go tell that to the Muslims who disagree with you. The 4 schools of Sunni Jurisprudence, scores of well regarded historical and current scholars, and the hundreds of millions of your fellow Muslims who directly or indirectly support violent Jihad.

  13. #73
    andak01
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by scattergood View Post
    I love it. Hundreds of Millions of Jews, Christians, Hindus, Zororastrians, and anamists butchered and murdered by the Muslims and what's your response? Yeah, it isn't effective since the Muslims haven't killed ALL the Jews, Christians, Hindus, Zororastrians, and anamists. Thank you for showing yourself to be the true believer we knew you were, the apologist for centuries of rape, murder, and forced conversion by Muslims, and the supporter / rationalizer / and enabler of jihad.
    You are the one telling the lie of history that Muslims are THE genociders and the ones responsible for THE Holocaust aren't. Really, why stop at hundreds of millions. I'm sure you can paint a picture of history where people were dying because of Muslims before Muhammad (SAW) was born! And some sick bastard will believe it. After all, you've filtered every evil human motive out of Muslim history. Muslims don't invade or kill or rape or do anything according to you for any reason other than religion. What a total crock! Muslims are and have been as subject to greed, imperialism and lust for power as any other group on the planet that's had half a shot at it.

    And yet you can't but help contradict yourself in the very next sentence. So Islamic rape, murder, subjugation and forced conversion is a bloody incursion, but the well documented, seemingly intrinsic theological nature of similar behavior by Muslims is just, in your own words 'only effective if the genocide is complete'. Nice.
    That's because, faced with your lies and fanatical hatred of Muslims, I can see you've got little place else to go. You say you want reform within the system to make everything harder for Muslims, but you won't say what measures you'd take. The cautionary tale for fanatics here, whether Al Qaida, Hindutvah or extreme right is, you CAN'T genocide people. Oh genocide is a very real thing for sure. But long term, outside of very small numbers of people, it's impossible. And, the end result is they come back more powerful and angrier than before.

    Go tell that to the Muslims who disagree with you. The 4 schools of Sunni Jurisprudence, scores of well regarded historical and current scholars, and the hundreds of millions of your fellow Muslims who directly or indirectly support violent Jihad.
    Violent jihad is not, contrary to your incessant lies about total genocide of Jews and Christians. When Bin Laden sets forth his goals, that is not on the list. In fact, much as Ahmadinijad disgusts me, he has never said he wants to kill all the Jews.

  14. #74
    Senior Member bararallu's Avatar
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    Andak,

    Where has Scattergood stated "THE" in this context you provide?

  15. #75
    Senior Member Sanket's Avatar
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    Re: 50 Responses to criticisms of Israel

    "whether Al Qaida, Hindutvah or extreme right is, you CAN'T genocide people."

    WOW!!! Seriously Al Qaida & Hindutvah ?

    New Low Andak.
    Mountain look very spectacular from distance. Prostitutes look very beautiful when they make-up. War stories are very interesting. All these three things are interesting from distance.

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