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Thread: UK blocks Israel arms deals

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    UK blocks Israel arms deals

    The British government has blocked almost one third of British military exports to Israel this year, citing possible threats to regional stability and fears the equipment might facilitate human rights violations.

    According to official figures, the value of UK military sales arms to Israel declined by one third last year, and has fallen by a drastic 75 percent since 2005.

    "There is evidence that the British government's export control policy to Israel may have been tightened up," said Parliament's new 2007 Strategic Export Controls report, issued by the Quadrapartite Commission, which comprises representatives from four ministries.

    The change in policy, said the report, reflects a convergence of government attitudes with its own official guidelines.

    The report comes amid a period of uncertainty in Anglo-Israeli relations.
    While the new prime minister, Gordon Brown, has voiced public support for Israel and has appointed several pro-Israel MPs to cabinet positions, he has also promoted a leading critic of US and Israeli policy, former UN deputy secretary-general Mark Malloch Brown, to a key Foreign Office post.
    Outside of government, the opposition Liberal Democrat party has called for a rethinking of arms sales to Israel, while in May the UK's Legal Services Commission, the state agency that provides funding for attorney's fees for indigent defendants, agreed to underwrite the costs of litigation brought by a Palestinian man in a British court seeking a ban on arms sales to Israel.
    The August 7 Quadripartite Committee report largely praised the government's overall handling of strategic exports but warned that the rapid pace of technological change and rising threat of terrorism required increased state vigilance.

    "Any gaps in the legislation could have serious consequences for the UK," it concluded.

    However, it criticized as "unclear" the British government's policies on arms sales to Israel.

    While the "case-by-case" approach gave the government a "flexibility" that allowed a "latitude to adjust policy without the need for public explanation," its arms sales policies towards Israel were "neither transparent nor accountable," the panel found.

    The committee asked that "the government explain its policy on licensing exports to Israel, Jordan or other countries in the Middle East and that it explain whether it has adjusted its policy since 1997 as events in the Occupied Territories and Middle East have unfolded."

    "We further recommend that the government explain how it assesses whether there is a clear risk‚ that a proposed export to Israel might be used for internal repression," it said.

    Statistics published by the committee showed that arms exports to Israel totaled 14.5 million pounds last year (about $29 million), compared to GBP 22.5 million in 2005. Between 1997 and 2006 Britain granted Israel 1561 Standard Individual Export Licenses (SIELs) valued at GBP 113 million. During the same period it authorized 626 SIELs valued at GBP 136.5 million for shipment to Jordan.

    However, over the last 10 years, 190 application for military sales to Israel have been prohibited, comprising 11 percent of all applications for sales of military equipment. During the same period, only two such applications were rejected for military and restricted goods bound for Jordan.

    The British government reported it had approved 37 military SIELs to Israel in the first quarter of 2007 valued at GBP 1.5 million, a rate that if held constant throughout the year would cut British sales to Israel by three quarters since 2005.

    The UK also blocked 11 SIELs to Israel in the first three months of 2007: three for airborne guidance systems, four for information security systems and equipment, one for munitions, one for fire control equipment, one for electronic components, and one for specialty aluminum alloys.

    Three SIELs for the sale of radar and avionics guidance systems to a third country for use in aircraft destined for the IAF were blocked this year also.
    The 14 rejected SIELs violated various "Consolidated EU and National Arms Licensing Criteria," the Foreign Office stated, citing concerns the shipments would not respect "human rights and the fundamental freedoms in the country of final destination," would worsen the "the internal situation in the country of final destination;" and would harm "regional peace, security and stability."

    One SIEL was denied due to the "behavior of the buyer country with regard to the international community; in particular its attitude to terrorism, the nature of its alliances and respect for international law," while concerns the equipment would be "diverted" for non-approved uses or "re-exported under undesirable conditions" were cited in rejecting three SIELs.

    The Foreign Office said in its annual human rights report to Parliament that "progress on improving the human rights situation" in Israel and the territories had been "limited."

    Testifying before the committee on March 15, foreign secretary Margaret Beckett stated that the Foreign Office kept a "close eye" on the uses made by the IDF of British military equipment.

    The then-foreign secretary said: "If we discovered that equipment had been sold to Israel and was being used contrary to agreed terms, we would regard that with grave concern and we would make sure we did not issue licenses for such equipment in the future."

    Beckett said at the time that Britain's total arms sales to Israel were slight. "I believe something like 0.1% of Israel's total arms imports comes from the United Kingdom, and we have not sold main equipment like tanks or artillery or warships to Israel since 1997," she said, noting the Blair government had "visibly conformed" to EU guidelines not to sell equipment that might harm regional peace, security and stability in the Middle East.

    During last year's Second Lebanon War, the leader of the opposition Liberal Democrat party urged the government to review its arms sales to Israel.
    Sir Menzies Campbell said the government "must now comply with its own arms export rules and institute an immediate suspension of all UK arms exports to Israel."

    Pressure is also being exerted through the courts to end arms sales to Israel.

    Last November, Public Interest Lawyers, in cooperation with the Palestinian rights group, al-Haq, filed suit against the British government on behalf of Saleh Hasan of Bethlehem. Hasan claimed the sale of military goods to Israel violated British export guidelines and contributed to his "oppression" as a Palestinian by Israel.

    Phil Shiner, head of Public Interest Lawyers, stated the crux of their case was whether the British government had met its own criteria about what it can and cannot do in terms of arms exports where there is a risk of internal repression in another country.

    In May, a spokesman for the Legal Services Commission said Hasan's lawsuit was receiving legal aid as a test case.

    "The fact that applicants may live abroad is not a factor under the legal aid scheme," he told The Times. "The key is whether the case involves issues of English law and will be tried in this jurisdiction."

    The case is scheduled for a court hearing in October.

  2. #2
    Senior Member bararallu's Avatar
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    LOL. how long will it be that the UK will complain that Israel is not selling them it's weapon systems...

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Let's not forget that the UK is the #1 or #2 arms dealer to the Gulf States.

  4. #4
    Senior Member bararallu's Avatar
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    But come on.. Kuwait only threw out a quarter million palies a few years ago.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Yala's Avatar
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    Israel can't develop this stuff on their own? Give me a break.
    "It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders

  6. #6
    Senior Member Kenneth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yala View Post
    Israel can't develop this stuff on their own? Give me a break.
    Probably, but maybe it's a question of licensing or contracting. BAE systems export vital military components to Israel which are then used in American F16's. I don't see why all the parts have to come to Israel in such a round about manner but there you go.

    Interestingly the moral bastion that is the U.K., export weapons and military equipment to no less then 20 countries throughout the world which are deemed to be areas of conflict. Israel included. Other countries include Algeria, Angola, Burundi, Colombia, India, Indonesia, Kenya, Nepal, Nigeria, Pakistan, Sierra Leone, Sri Lanka, Uganda and the hyper inflation hell hole called Zimbabwe.

    When Tony Blair was asked by a Daily Mirror reporter in July 2002 at a press conference as to why the U.K. would not stop it's exports of arms to Israel he replied : "what would actually happen if we did that is not that the parts wouldn't be supplied; but you would find every other defence industry in the world rushing in to take the place that we have vacated".

    So taking the above Nu Labour attitude into account and what with Israel being the favourite whipping boy of the liberal western elite and the bogey man to so many chattering socialist bottom feeders the only surprise here is why this arms block didn't happen sooner.

    But you know what the say about true friends in times of stress and all that.
    As a youth I used to weep in butcher's shops.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Yala's Avatar
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    Of course Kenneth, but again, this won't be a serious problem for Israel, as you quoted T Blair, Israel can get this technology from other places, or develop their own. This is just a way for Britain to embarrass and punish Israel publicly. They are only punishing Israel in the PR arena and not in the military one. If Israeli leaders had any guts or pride they would cxl all their military export deals with Britain.
    "It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders

  8. #8
    Senior Member bararallu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
    [/I]So taking the above Nu Labour attitude into account and what with Israel being the favourite whipping boy of the liberal western elite and the bogey man to so many chattering socialist bottom feeders the only surprise here is why this arms block didn't happen sooner.
    The Germans have been pulling this on us for years as well. It's almost better going to the freaking Russians, yes they supply your enemies but so do your hypothetical allies.

    It was a mistake to farm out our stuff; we can build everything with the ground up except maybe the "big iron," where you need foundries and such. Better to build a Phalcon with known parties that have no scruples then to be a whipping boy for the high and mighty hypocrites. In terms of patents I don't think this is a major concern; more likely it's just parts that readily fit into bought equipment or even just meeting NATO spec., even though were not in NATO.

  9. #9
    farmall
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    Cut co-production deals with India and both countries win.
    Israeli could help India grow its war machine rapidly and be in better shape when Busharraf finally falls to the Jihadists.

    "It's almost better going to the freaking Russians, yes they supply your enemies but so do your hypothetical allies. "

    Go to them too, where what they make is useful. The Russians are better than the Brits in terms of being reasonable clients, and your money would go farther.

  10. #10
    Senior Member bararallu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmall View Post
    Cut co-production deals with India and both countries win.
    Israeli could help India grow its war machine rapidly and be in better shape when Busharraf finally falls to the Jihadists.

    "It's almost better going to the freaking Russians, yes they supply your enemies but so do your hypothetical allies. "

    Go to them too, where what they make is useful. The Russians are better than the Brits in terms of being reasonable clients, and your money would go farther.
    Our trade with India is growing seriously every year, and not only in military hw. We will help make them a superpower, that is for sure. The situation with Russia is always a double edged sword. It's a problem in terms of our state secrets. And it's a problem with the Americans. Every time Israelis start warming up to Russian military companies the Americans make nasty comments... like a jealous wife! It would make complete sense to buy Russian hunter-killer subs than the German ones for example... and some of their long range interceptors/bombers, and maybe even their APCs.. strip them all and put in our own stuff. Talk about bang for the buck. We cant build the shells and we probably have a serious learning curve on jet and nuke engine production; that is why I'm personally so gung ho in snipping the money choke.. kills two birds with one stone.. Our Enemy Egypt needs to be cut off, immediately. And we need to be free to act without being put into a precarious position by other [paranoid] "friendly" countries.

  11. #11
    peaceful_arab
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    Why doesnt Israel extend millitary ties with China?? China is already on its way to becoming a millitary powerhouse(they are dveloping a 5th gen fighter-jet).

    I read some stuff on how Israel and China had previously worked cooperatively on military projects, but they were eventually scarpped by Israel under US pressure.

    There is no doubt that the next superpower of the world (economicaly and militarily) is China. They are already on there way to developing high-tech indegeniously produced military equipment(even if it is reversed engineered, its still a very good start).

  12. #12
    The Indian
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    Quote Originally Posted by peaceful_arab View Post
    Why doesnt Israel extend millitary ties with China?? China is already on its way to becoming a millitary powerhouse(they are dveloping a 5th gen fighter-jet).

    I read some stuff on how Israel and China had previously worked cooperatively on military projects, but they were eventually scarpped by Israel under US pressure.

    There is no doubt that the next superpower of the world (economicaly and militarily) is China. They are already on there way to developing high-tech indegeniously produced military equipment(even if it is reversed engineered, its still a very good start).
    1. Because this is a double edged sword. Israeli military technology will then be imparted to Arab countries, Pakistan and then terrorists who will then use it against Israel. The Chinese are notorious proliferators. The Chinese government knows various military companies sell to crooks, tyrants and terrorists and look the other way. The North Korean A-bomb components were Chinese delivered to Pakistan, who then in turn loaded the stuff up on US made C-130 cargo aircraft, stopped in China to refuel, and made delivery. The Pakistanis got Ding-Dong missile components in return. This is a very good reason for Israel to not sell to China.

    2. The US doesn't like it because it can be used against it and has asked Israel to not sell to China.

  13. #13
    peaceful_arab
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Indian View Post
    1. Because this is a double edged sword. Israeli military technology will then be imparted to Arab countries, Pakistan and then terrorists who will then use it against Israel. The Chinese are notorious proliferators. The Chinese government knows various military companies sell to crooks, tyrants and terrorists and look the other way. The North Korean A-bomb components were Chinese delivered to Pakistan, who then in turn loaded the stuff up on US made C-130 cargo aircraft, stopped in China to refuel, and made delivery. The Pakistanis got Ding-Dong missile components in return. This is a very good reason for Israel to not sell to China.
    You are very wrong on the Arab country part. Most arab countries that have good realtiosn with the west get their technology from the west(Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait). And those who donot have friednly ties with the USA almsot exculsivesy get their equipment from the Ruskies.


    BTW, I looked up some info, as it turns out, Israel is the second largest exporter of weapons/weapons system to China, after Russia. And upon further reserach info I found Israel-China do still have close ties, which I can see is in Israel's own intrests, as China is going to be the next superpower of the world.

    http://www.isracast.com/Transcripts/220605a_trans.htm

  14. #14
    The Indian
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    I doubt most of the sales are of new technology in radar, missiles or aircraft. Remember the sale of the IAI Phalcon was blocked to China.

    You are right the US sells the most to Arab countries, but key weapon systems that can alter the balance of power are limited. Remember KSA operates medium range Chinese Dong-Feng missiles.

  15. #15
    peaceful_arab
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Indian View Post
    I doubt most of the sales are of new technology in radar, missiles or aircraft. Remember the sale of the IAI Phalcon was blocked to China.
    Right. But I think Israel-China are working together, because you have to remmeber China is the worlds next superpower, they are already on there way to become an economic superpower, and also they are expanding their military capabilties everyday. Upon further research i foudn out that the Chinese plane "J-10", could have had possible Israeli involvement.

    You are right the US sells the most to Arab countries, but key weapon systems that can alter the balance of power are limited. Remember KSA operates medium range Chinese Dong-Feng missiles.
    Yep. But remmeber KSA doesnt really need missles to protect itself, the only country which truly poses a threat to the arab world is Iran, and I think the missles are directed towards them.

    Anyways, I read on news today it is india's Indepdence day, so happy indepdence day!

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