HP and Compaq CEO says she wants Islamic-inspired leadership

[Haifa]

speeches & articles

CARLY FIORINA
MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA
SEPTEMBER 26, 2001
"TECHNOLOGY, BUSINESS AND OUR WAY OF LIFE: WHAT'S NEXT"

Thank you. Good evening, everyone.


[..................]


As business leaders, as we are faced with questions of life and death rather than how much our stock is worth, the significance of our business contribution to the world may be increased. And that is a good thing.

I’ll end by telling a story.

There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world.

It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climes to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins.

One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities, and its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization’s commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.

And this civilization was driven more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration.

Its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.

When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and passed it on to others.

While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I’m talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.

Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Arab mathematicians. Sufi poet-philosophers like Rumi challenged our notions of self and truth. Leaders like Suleiman contributed to our notions of tolerance and civic leadership.

And perhaps we can learn a lesson from his example: It was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population–that included Christianity, Islamic, and Jewish traditions.

This kind of enlightened leadership — leadership that nurtured culture, sustainability, diversity and courage — led to 800 years of invention and prosperity.

In dark and serious times like this, we must affirm our commitment to building societies and institutions that aspire to this kind of greatness. More than ever, we must focus on the importance of leadership– bold acts of leadership and decidedly personal acts of leadership.

With that, I’d like to open up the conversation and see what we, collectively, believe about the role of leadership.

[Vic]

This is somewhat at odds with your signature

"The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence." - Abu Ala' Al-Mary

isn't it?

Now seriously. The accomplishments of "the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600" are undeniable. But what is it in your opinion that happened afterwards? I don't think that there are many countries with predominantly Muslim population and exemplary leadership today. Why this downslide? Can you think of any ways out of it?

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Vic
This is somewhat at odds with your signatureisn't it?

Now seriously. The accomplishments of "the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600" are undeniable. But what is it in your opinion that happened afterwards? I don't think that there are many countries with predominantly Muslim population and exemplary leadership today. Why this downslide? Can you think of any ways out of it?

Undeniable?????

Of course it's deniable! Can you answer the following:

1) Why haven't any of these "achievements" appeared until the Muslims started conquering countries with an ALREADY established civilization like Egypt, Prussian, and the Roman?

2) Why can't we find ANY KIND of civilization in old Saudi Arabia (where Islam started), whereas according to your words, this should have been the "source" of civilization and scientific achievements since all the Islam started and was concentrated there.

3) What do you think Muslims invented that the great civilizations like Rome and Alexandria didn't invent?

4) If the Muslims are that interested in science and human civilization, why did they burn the great Library of Alexandria by Amr Ibn El-Aas?

5) If Islam was that civilized and advanced, why Arabs needed, for example, Christian Egyptians to continue managing the financial issues in Egypt when they conquer it?

The problem is that only ignorant people talks about that issue! Go and find a book about ancient Egyptian civilization and its scientific accomplishments, then get a book about the accomplishments of Arabs in the period they conquer Egypt at. Surprisingly you will find that ALL the ancient Egyptian scientific inventions are credited to Muslims IN THE TIME PERIOD they conquer Egypt at.

When you read any comprehensive book about early Islamic civilization, you will find that this era was simply fights and conspiracy between Muslims ruler (i.e. the main Khalifa and the governors or Wolah) and filled with assassinations and barbaric life style.

Everything credited to Islamis Civilization is simply stolen from the lands they conquered.

[Haifa]

Vic, the thread was aimed at Coptic Xians, not Jews. It really pisses me off when Coptics (not all xians, just coptics) come and say muslims did not invent anything, while they (coptics) are the most backword people in history.

Ezra says they stole what the coptics had, hahha. Ok, name me one coptic scientist or mathematician. I can name you thousqands of muslims who supposedly 'stole' stuff from the coptics, but can you name me one coptic whose 'stuff' was stolen? I think not.

Until this moment, coptics are still more backward than muslims. I will not get into coptic bashing now, however, though the coptic religion already bashes itself, as in what happened to ((Barsoom)).

________

Back to vic: yes, most islamic countries are backward now, and here are the reasons:

Now we all know that religion is the opposite of advancement. In the past, the whole world was religious, so westeners did not have the advantage they have over muslims (the advantage is
being unreligious/atheist). At that point of history, muslims became the leading civilization and they had all the science and discoveries etc.

Now, however, the west is becoming atheist, and they have n advantage over muslim countries that are prevented from advancing because of religion.


That is not the only reason, and it may not be the most important, either. Other reasons include various events such as internal wars, and the transfer of power to the Turks (the Ottomons). Now the irony is that turky itself, which was the cause of the backwardness in the Islamic world, became secular.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Haifa

Ezra says they stole what the coptics had, hahha.

I'm giving an example of one of the civilizations. If you think ancient egyptian civilization hadn't invented anything, then I'm feeling pitty for your ignorance.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Haifa
Vic, the thread was aimed at Coptic Xians, not Jews. It really pisses me off when Coptics (not all xians, just coptics) come and say muslims did not invent anything, while they (coptics) are the most backword people in history.

Ezra says they stole what the coptics had, hahha. Ok, name me one coptic scientist or mathematician. I can name you thousqands of muslims who supposedly 'stole' stuff from the coptics, but can you name me one coptic whose 'stuff' was stolen? I think not.

Until this moment, coptics are still more backward than muslims. I will not get into coptic bashing now, however, though the coptic religion already bashes itself, as in what happened to ((Barsoom)).

________

Back to vic: yes, most islamic countries are backward now, and here are the reasons:

Now we all know that religion is the opposite of advancement. In the past, the whole world was religious, so westeners did not have the advantage they have over muslims (the advantage is
being unreligious/atheist). At that point of history, muslims became the leading civilization and they had all the science and discoveries etc.

Now, however, the west is becoming atheist, and they have n advantage over muslim countries that are prevented from advancing because of religion.


That is not the only reason, and it may not be the most important, either. Other reasons include various events such as internal wars, and the transfer of power to the Turks (the Ottomons). Now the irony is that turky itself, which was the cause of the backwardness in the Islamic world, became secular.

I'm wondering why haven't you dared answering any og the questions I asked and just commented about the "coptic" issue.

Are you a Muslim? Because as far as I see that's a typical Muslim behavior. When he get stuck, he just tries to branch to any silly sub-topic.

[Haifa]

Again, you sound like an empty person, with only air inside, but no content. You could not name a single coptic scientist. Not egyptian, not ancient egyptian, nothing. I said COPTIC, which means AFTER the rise of xianity, NOT before.

Now I'll answer your empty questions again:

1) Why haven't any of these "achievements" appeared until the Muslims started conquering countries with an ALREADY established civilization like Egypt, Prussian, and the Roman?

This shows your lack of education, if not idiocy. All the civilizations were conquered within 30 years of the establishment of islam.
Before conquering these civilizations, there was NO Islam. How can the achievements of Islamic civilization appear before there was Islam?

And by the way this is the case with all civilizations, you start where people stopped. You do not start from scratch! For example, the western civilization is based in part in the islamic one. Does this mean there is no western civilization?

The islamic civilization may have been based on the ancient ones, and I do not see anything wrong with this!

2) Why can't we find ANY KIND of civilization in old Saudi Arabia (where Islam started), whereas according to your words, this should have been the "source" of civilization and scientific achievements since all the Islam started and was concentrated there.

This shows your lack of education, if not idiocy, again. Islam was NEVER based in saudi arabia. It started there, but soon muslims moved away. In fact, 30 years after the establishment of islam, there was no one in saudi arabia! Now you've got to understand that islam != does NOT equal saudi arabia. Most Egyptians are muslim, perssians are muslim, and even some romans are muslim! Does it make sense now?

3) What do you think Muslims invented that the great civilizations like Rome and Alexandria didn't invent?

many many things. Would you like a website?

4) If the Muslims are that interested in science and human civilization, why did they burn the great Library of Alexandria by Amr Ibn El-Aas?

This is a lie invented by coptics, and ALL historians agree on this. The story was invented by a guy called Gregory Bar Hebræus.
Here is a uote from a website, then the website

The errors in the sources are obvious and the story itself is almost wholly incredible. In the first place, Gregory Bar Hebræus represents the Christian in his story as being one John of Byzantium and that John was certainly dead by the time of the Moslem invasion of Egypt. Also, the prospect of the library talking six months to burn is simply fantastic and just the sort of exaggeration one might expect to find in Arab legends such as the Arabian Nights. However Alfred Butler's famous observation that the books of the library were made of vellum which does not burn is not true. The very late dates of the source material are also suspect as there is no hint of this atrocity in any early literature - even in the Coptic Christian chronicle of John of Nikiou (died after 640AD) who detailed the Arab invasion. Finally, the story comes from the hand of a Christian intellectual who would have been more than happy to show the religion of his rulers in a bad light. Agreeing with Gibbon this time, we can dismiss it as a legend.

http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm#omar

5) If Islam was that civilized and advanced, why Arabs needed, for example, Christian Egyptians to continue managing the financial issues in Egypt when they conquer it?

Because No civilkization starts advanced. They probably relied on xians in the first couple of years then developped their own civilization. Again, people start from where others stopped.

Even a half-wit can get this! Now what I would like to concentrate on is the fact that you lied about the Library of Alexandria, and you probably knew that it was a lie. This, again, shows that your goal is to attack the islamic civliation no matter what it takes.

Any ways, You've got to distinguish between the islamic civilization and islam itself, which you fail to do, partly because of your biggotry and deep hatred for muslims.

Now ill go back to the coptics.. name me ONE coptic scientist who did something of a VALUE. Not egyptian, COPTIC CHRISTIAN. He must be christian. Pagans do not work.

[Ezra]

Ok, although you seem an impolite and ignorant person (a typical Muslims) but I'll reply to you. Not because you worth anything, but to show the people the animal-nature of Islam.

This shows your lack of education, if not idiocy. All the civilizations were conquered within 30 years of the establishment of islam.
Before conquering these civilizations, there was NO Islam. How can the achievements of Islamic civilization appear before there was Islam?
And by the way this is the case with all civilizations, you start where people stopped. You do not start from scratch! For example, the western civilization is based in part in the islamic one. Does this mean there is no western civilization?
The islamic civilization may have been based on the ancient ones, and I do not see anything wrong with this!

Obviously you are so idiot and don't understand what you read. But no problem. What I meant is where were ANY of these scientific achievements before Islam starts conquering their neighbors? Why haven't we heard about ANY KIND of civilization in this 30 years? Ha?

This shows your lack of education, if not idiocy, again. Islam was NEVER based in saudi arabia. It started there, but soon muslims moved away. In fact, 30 years after the establishment of islam, there was no one in saudi arabia! Now you've got to understand that islam != does NOT equal saudi arabia. Most Egyptians are muslim, perssians are muslim, and even some romans are muslim! Does it make sense now?

Again idiot and just snap to any sub-topic when you get stuck. When I mention Saudi Arabia I mean the Arabian Peninsula (shebh gazirat el arab - If you want to show off in Arabic). I just used the Saudia Arabia name to match your simple mind. Now you are the ignorant. You said after 30 years there were no one in the Arabian Peninsula? Oh yeh? So where were Abo Bakr, Omar Ibn el Khattab, Ali ibn abi taleb, and Osman Ben Affan? Ha? Where was the location of Khalifah? ha?
I thought I asked from the start: NO LIES!

many many things. Would you like a website?

I thought you knew what you were talking about! Oh yeh please…

This is a lie invented by coptics, and ALL historians agree on this. The story was invented by a guy called Gregory Bar Hebræus.
Here is a uote from a website, then the website

*****

Crab! Then who burned it? The sun light or the hot weather?

Because No civilkization starts advanced. They probably relied on xians in the first couple of years then developped their own civilization. Again, people start from where others stopped.

How about even after 150 for their invasion of North Africa they couldn't run anything in the country except the military issues?

Even a half-wit can get this! Now what I would like to concentrate on is the fact that you lied about the Library of Alexandria, and you probably knew that it was a lie. This, again, shows that your goal is to attack the islamic civliation no matter what it takes.

I'm not surprised from you style. I know that if you have a machine gun you would have killed me by now. Typical Muslim.

Even a half-wit can get this! Now what I would like to concentrate on is the fact that you lied about the Library of Alexandria, and you probably knew that it was a lie. This, again, shows that your goal is to attack the islamic civliation no matter what it takes.

No. I just attack liers like you.

Now ill go back to the coptics.. name me ONE coptic scientist who did something of a VALUE. Not egyptian, COPTIC CHRISTIAN. He must be christian. Pagans do not work.

Sure I can after we finish proving that you are a BIG idiot and a liar.

[Teacake]

Haifa seems to be saying that until islam came about 1500 years ago, the world barely left the stone age! HAHAHAHA! That all the scientific and other human advances just suddenly materialized from a primative vaccume until islam appeared.

Never mind that islamic warriors sacked every great center of civilization they plundered into. A bunch of brutal carpetbaggers taking credit for the achievments of others. As if "islamic achievements" materialized like magic from nothing. What a crock. There was nothing islamic intellectuals did on their own. Alexandria was left in rubble by muslims, Moorish Spain was already at its height by the time islam came to town, but the one thing islam achieved which is still a thriving business, is slavery. And all this business about reparations for african slavery should be presented at islam's door.

[elke]

Scientific advancement is not necessarily against religion. A poll conducted in the '90s showed that approximately 40% of scientists were religious, and only about 25% or so certain Atheist. The rest were Agnositics. If anyone is interested, I will try to dig out this poll - I read about it a couple of years ago. Yes, polls of this nature are notoriously inaccurate, but we don't have to go far to confirm at least the gist of these findings.

Darwin made references to the "Creator", as did Einstein. Whether these great minds subscribed to any organized religion is moot: the fact is that neither of them was an Atheist. Nor were many others Atheist - such as Benjamin Franklin.

Only dogma, religious or not, is counter to scientific advancement. It is also counter to social improvement. This is exactly what we are seeing in the Muslim world today: dogma, religious or secular, forced upon the populace, keeping it ignorant and malnourished.

Unfortunately, simply learning factual information alone does not necessarily lead to better understanding of the world, which is the basis of all scientific and cultural advancement. The change must occur in the very thinking process used in acquiring this education through analysis. Dogmatic pov actively suppresses critical thinking skills and thus prevents scientific and cultural improvement. This is why even with the educational opportunities available to persons from the Muslim world, few contributions to the human body of knowledge came from there.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Teacake
Haifa seems to be saying that until islam came about 1500 years ago, the world barely left the stone age! HAHAHAHA! That all the scientific and other human advances just suddenly materialized from a primative vaccume until islam appeared.

Never mind that islamic warriors sacked every great center of civilization they plundered into. A bunch of brutal carpetbaggers taking credit for the achievments of others. As if "islamic achievements" materialized like magic from nothing. What a crock. There was nothing islamic intellectuals did on their own. Alexandria was left in rubble by muslims, Moorish Spain was already at its height by the time islam came to town, but the one thing islam achieved which is still a thriving business, is slavery. And all this business about reparations for african slavery should be presented at islam's door.

Very well said, Teacake.

As a follow-up with Teacake words, Haifa, would you please compare between Alexandria before Arab conquer and after?

[Haifa]

yea sure, I'll prepare a chart of comparison, but after you name one COPTIC CHRISTIAN scientist and what he provided for the world. This means this scientist must have lived between 50~ CE when xianity entered egypt until ~700 CE when islam came.
here is a PARTIAL list of islamic ones:

701 (died) - Khalid Ibn Yazeed - Alchemy

721 - Jabir Ibn Haiyan (Geber) - (Great Muslim Alchemist)

740 - Al-Asmai - (Zoology, Botany, Animal Husbandry)

780 - Al-Khwarizmi (Algorizm) - (Mathematics, Astronomy)

787 - Al Balkhi, Ja'Far Ibn Muhammas (Albumasar) - Astronomy, Fortune-telling

796 (died) - Al-Fazari,Ibrahim Ibn Habeeb - Astronomy, Translation

800 - Ibn Ishaq Al-Kindi - (Alkindus) - (Philosophy, Physics, Optics)

808 - Hunain Ibn Is'haq - Medicine, Translator

815 - Al-Dinawari, Abu-Hanifa Ahmed Ibn Dawood - Mathematics, Linguistics

836 - Thabit Ibn Qurrah (Thebit) - (Astronomy, Mechanics)

838 - Ali Ibn Rabban Al-Tabari - (Medicine, Mathematics)

852 - Al Battani ABU abdillah (Albategni) - Mathematics, Astronomy, Engineering

857 - Ibn MasawaihYou'hanna - Medicine

858 - Al-Battani (Albategnius) - (Astronomy, mathematics)

860 - Al-Farghani (Al-Fraganus) - (Astronomy,Civil Engineering)

884 - Al-Razi (Rhazes) - (Medicine,Ophthalmology, Chemistry)

870 - Al-Farabi (Al-Pharabius) - (Sociology, Logic, Science, Music)

900 - (died) - Abu Hamed Al-ustrulabi - Astronomy

903 - Al-Sufi (Azophi - ( Astronomy)

908 - Thabit Ibn Qurrah - Medicine, Engineering

912 (died) - Al-Tamimi Muhammad Ibn Amyal (Attmimi) - Alchemy

923 (died) - Al-Nirizi, AlFadl Ibn Ahmed (wronge Altibrizi) - Mathematics, Astronomy

930 - Ibn Miskawayh, Ahmed Abuali - Medicine, Alchemy

932 - Ahmed Al-Tabari - Medicine

936 - Abu Al-Qasim Al-Zahravi (Albucasis) - (Surgery, Medicine)

940 - Muhammad Al-Buzjani - (Mathematics, Astronomy, Geometry)

950 - Al Majrett'ti Abu-alQasim - Astronomy, Alchemy, Mathematics

960 (died) - Ibn Wahshiyh, Abu Baker - Alchemy, Botany

965 - Ibn Al-Haitham (Alhazen) - Physics, Optics, Mathematics)

973 - Abu Raihan Al-Biruni - (Astronomy, Mathematics)

976 - Ibn Abil Ashath - Medicine

980 - Ibn Sina (Avicenna) - (Medicine, Philosophy, Mathematics)

983 - Ikhwan A-Safa (Assafa) - (Group of Muslim Scientists)

1019 - Al-Hasib Alkarji - Mathematics

1029 - Al-Zarqali (Arzachel) - Astronomy (Invented Astrolabe)

1044 - Omar Al-Khayyam - (Mathematics, Poetry)

1060 - (died) Ali Ibn Ridwan Abu'Hassan Ali - Medicine

1077 - Ibn Abi-Sadia Abul Qasim - Medicine

1090 - Ibn Zuhr (Avenzoar) - Surgery, Medicine

1095 - Ibn Bajah, Mohammed Ibn Yahya

1097 - Ibn Al-Baitar Diauddin (Bitar) - Botany, Medicine, Pharmacology

1099 - Al-Idrisi (Dreses) - Geography, World Map (First Globe)

1091 - Ibn Zuhr (Avenzoar) - ( Surgery, Medicine)

1095 - Ibn Bajah, Mohammad Ibn Yahya (Avenpace) - Philosophy, Medicine

1099 - Al-Idrisi (Dreses) - (Geography -World Map, First Globe)

1100 - Ibn Tufayl Al-Qaysi - Philosophy, Medicine

1120 - (died) - Al-Tuhra-ee, Al-Husain Ibn Ali - Alchemy, Poem

1128 - Ibn Rushd (Averroe's) - Philosophy, Medicine

1135 - Ibn Maymun, Musa (Maimonides) - Medicine, Philosphy

1140 - Al-Badee Al-Ustralabi - Astronomy, Mathematics

1155 (died) - Abdel-al Rahman AlKhazin - Astronomy

1162 - Al Baghdadi, Abdellateef Muwaffaq - Medicine, Geography

1165 - Ibn A-Rumiyyah Abul'Abbas (Annabati) - Botany

1173 - Rasheed AlDeen Al-Suri - Botany

1184 - Al-Tifashi, Shihabud-Deen (Attifashi) - Metallurgy, Stones

1201 - Nasir Al-Din Al-Tusi - (Astronomy, Non-Euclidean Geometry)

1203 - Ibn Abi-Usaibi'ah, Muwaffaq Al-Din - Medicine

1204 (died) - Al-Bitruji (Alpetragius) - (Astronomy)

1213 - Ibn Al-Nafis Damishqui - (Anatomy)

1236 - Kutb Aldeen Al-Shirazi - Astronomy, Geography

1248 (died) - Ibn Al-Baitar - ( Pharmacy, Botany)

1258 - Ibn Al-Banna (Al Murrakishi), Azdi - Medicine, Mathematics

1262 (died) - Al-Hassan Al-Murarakishi - Mathematics, Astronomy, Geography

1273 - Al-Fida (Abdulfeda) - ( Astronomy, Geography)

1306 - Ibn Al-Shater Al Dimashqi - Astronomy, Mathematics

1320 (died) - Al Farisi Kamalud-deen Abul-Hassan - Astronomy, Physics

1341 (died) - Al-Jildaki, Muhammad Ibn Aidamer - Alchemy

1351 - Ibn Al-Majdi, Abu Abbas Ibn Tanbugha - Mathematics, Astronomy

1359 - Ibn Al-Magdi,Shihab-Udden Ibn Tanbugha - Mathematic, Astronomy

[Haifa]

by partial list I mean scientists taken from here and there. A detailed list would go like this:

mathematics: names
medicine: names
philosophy: names.


Oh, have you been to the university of texas? a friend is a chemistry professor there. they have a HUGE statue of a arab scientist there. Can you tell me why?

Oh, and since you know computers, where does the word "algorithm" come from?

[Mediocrates]

Newton, Kepler, Brahe, Copernicus, Gallileo, Rheinmann, Gauss, Taylor, Liebniz, Fermat, Descartes, Pasteur, Darwin, Russell, Oppenheimer, Lawrence, Locke, Monteisque, Shakespear.......


I could go on for several hundred pages.

[Teacake]

Haifa,
no one is disputing that arabs and muslims had an involvment in the arts and sciences, what is disputed is that islam invented or created anything. During islams golden years... ( its begining basically) arabs and muslims lived among Jews, Greeks, and many other cultures of which all had generations of making gigantic contributions to these fields.

Once again, you speak as if the world was still in the stone age prior to islam which is only 1500 years old. And don't forget, during that time, many Jews were "arabic."