A German's point of view on Islam

[Parsi]

The commentary below is circulating on the internet and provides an excellent historical context for us to view the current rising tide of militant Islam. Let us not forget George Santayana’s remarkable insight: “Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

A man whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.

'Very few people were true Nazis 'he said,' but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'

We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectra of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam. The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history.

It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. The hard quantifiable fact is that the 'peaceful majority', the 'silent majority', is cowed and extraneous.

Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant.

China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.

The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.

And, who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points:

Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun. Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghanis, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.

As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts; the fanatics who threaten our way of life.

Lastly, at the risk of offending, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands world wide, read this -think about it - and send it on.

[Reffo]

Thanks Parsi, excellent article. This guy is spot on!

[andak01]

Let me remind you that there is another side to this story. Hitler used the attacks by anarchists to prove that the Jews were a danger to Germany, that all Germans must unite against the threats of anarchy and communism, which were also real threats. Hitler described Jews with the very terms I see daily on this forum, as a disease, a virus a common evil of humanity. McCarthy used the real threat of Communism to launch investigations that ruined the lives of many Jews in America. If you are not careful, I see a mob mentality forming against innocent Muslims and I see a populous who, under the right circumstances would not shy away from genocide of the Muslims. Don't become the thing you hate.

[Reffo]

andak, with respect, your analogy is invalid because this article, unlike Hitler who vilified ALL Jews, does not attempt to vilify ALL Muslims. To the contrary, he calls on mainstream Muslims not to make the same mistake as ordinary Germans made. He calls on all decent Muslims to speak up and stand up to their own extremists.

[andak01]

andak, with respect, your analogy is invalid because this article, unlike Hitler who vilified ALL Jews, does not attempt to vilify ALL Muslims. To the contrary, he calls on mainstream Muslims not to make the same mistake as ordinary Germans made. He calls on all decent Muslims to speak up and stand up to their own extremists.

Parsi does. ShimonG does. Our new poster Angry Lord does. Scattergood claims he doesn't then calls me a liar whenever I point to any moderate act by Muslims or says it's irrelevant. The article compared mainstream Muslims to people who were silent as the Nazis rolled in. It should be pointed out that the Nazis controlled steel production in all of Europe and most of the world. They had the best engineers and the best trained military in the world. The Islamists have a force trained on military theory that came out of Afghanistan in the 70s. They have no satellite intelligence or any force capable of doing anything but sniping. In short, they are fugitives who can't sleep in the same place two nights in a row without fearing a drone plane coming from a thousand miles away. Nor do they have any possibility of getting the funds to build any comparable military as they scamper about the world like so many rats to get a scrap of metal here and a scrap there.

To anyone of my parent's generation who actually lived through the Nazi era, that analogy is tragic and shows a deficit education. That you could compare those who killed 6 million Jews and marched into Paris as an equal threat to some goons that have to plan for a month to bomb a marketplace is a travesty to history.

[Reffo]

andak01

As this article says, not all Muslims are terrorists, that's just a self evident truth. However, this article points out the mistake that the ordinary (non Nazi) German people made. It points out that some were just complacent while others even basked in their new found self respect in the early days of Nazi Germany. And by the time they woke up, it was too late, the Nazis were in control.

So andak, please don't make the same mistake. Don't belittle the capability of the Jihadis just because they may not be capable engineers (not entirely true) and don't control steel production (but Muslims do own a substantial part of the world's oil reserves). They already control the minds of many impressionable of the world's 1.3 billion young Muslims. And even if they don't yet have nuclear weapons or guided missiles, Pakistan does and iran is working on it. And in the meanwhile, the fanaticism with which they are capable of inculcating their impressionable adherents, is quite capable of disrupting modern societies and alter the course of history. You don't believe me? Then just think what they did in 9/11 in New York and what they did in Israel between 2000 and 2003 (and are still trying to do today).

Please don't be complacent andak because by the time you wake up it might be too late and your fanatics will be in control. I for one wouldn't belittle the combined capabilities of 1.3 billion Muslims under the rule of Taliban like governments, or for that matter even if it would be just 50% or 25% of the total Muslim population under the rule of fanatics.

[Angry Lord]

Parsi does. ShimonG does. Our new poster Angry Lord does.

I dont. I asked you to show the "light of islam" or its moral superioirty over other religions which it advertises but you fail do so, since there no such thing in islam.

The article compared mainstream Muslims to people who were silent as the Nazis rolled in. It should be pointed out that the Nazis controlled steel production in all of Europe and most of the world. They had the best engineers and the best trained military in the world. The Islamists have a force trained on military theory that came out of Afghanistan in the 70s. They have no satellite intelligence or any force capable of doing anything but sniping.

This is what happens when people ignore science and are ready to believe that koran is the final word and there is no other thing that needs to be studied.

The Islamists made a choice and now they will reap its fruits. No sin goes unpunished such is the law of nature.

In short, they are fugitives who can't sleep in the same place two nights in a row without fearing a drone plane coming from a thousand miles away.

Good for humanity that those wretches are forced to live in constant fear of justice catching up with them. Otherwise the rest of the humanity would be living under constant fear of beheadings being conducted on the streets of our cities and non-muslim women raped just because their mohammed ordered them to do so.

[Parsi]

Parsi does..

I've never said such a thing as ALL Muslims..... Quite the contrary. Andak, please don't try to divert this topic. I'm not going to waste my energy on accusations and allegations. All my posts can be searched.

The political elements of Islam is one of the biggest socio-political problems of today's world.

[andak01]

I dont. I asked you to show the "light of islam" or its moral superioirty over other religions which it advertises but you fail do so, since there no such thing in islam.

When and if it's written in the book that you will see the light. Nothing I can say or do will prevent you from seeing the light. You will be surrounded by light. Until then it doesn't matter what I say.

[andak01]

This is what happens when people ignore science and are ready to believe that koran is the final word and there is no other thing that needs to be studied.

I agree. None of the great madrassas of the past limited themselves to religious studies only. They studies language and math and astronomy and medicine. The best antidote for extremism is education.

Good for humanity that those wretches are forced to live in constant fear of justice catching up with them. Otherwise the rest of the humanity would be living under constant fear of beheadings being conducted on the streets of our cities and non-muslim women raped just because their mohammed ordered them to do so.

Look, the people that perpetrate these crimes define me as a kafir as much as you.

[savvy]

Most of us are forgetting that the first thing the nazi's did was censor free speech. They started a campaign of manipulation that led to the boots in the street movement. Muslim fanatics in the West and around the Muslim World are working to introduce laws that would make criticizing Islam or the prophet a criminal act. It already is with Orianna Fallaci and the Austrian woman jailed for insulting Islam. The Western Left is not helping us by supporting stupid hate crimes laws designed to silence and shut down anything percieved as inflammatory.

[andak01]

There is free speech censorship of a sort coming from both sides, where all talk of interfaith communication is belittled, derided and insulted. Ultimately I pray and hope that will fail, that the humanitarians stand up to the militants and bigots on both sides and prevent a clash of civilizations. I've often said that the most dangerous job in the world is that of the peacemaker. The arms dealers and the war mongers die of old age in their sleep and the peacemakers are shot.

[savvy]

There is free speech censorship of a sort coming from both sides, where all talk of interfaith communication is belittled, derided and insulted. Ultimately I pray and hope that will fail, that the humanitarians stand up to the militants and bigots on both sides and prevent a clash of civilizations. I've often said that the most dangerous job in the world is that of the peacemaker. The arms dealers and the war mongers die of old age in their sleep and the peacemakers are shot.

What do mean by interfaith communication? What kind of communication should we have with Hamas, Al-Qaida, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood and the rest that deny Israel's right to exist?

[andak01]

What do mean by interfaith communication? What kind of communication should we have with Hamas, Al-Qaida, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood and the rest that deny Israel's right to exist?

Those are extreme examples. When someone points a gun at you, I expect you to do your duty and point a gun right back. But every Muslim in the world isn't pointing a gun at the Jews. And perhaps if enough of us put our best foot forward and invite Jews to peace, we can act as a conduit to change. Or we can put our best foot forward, invite Jews to peace and be called liars, idiots and terrorists. I can only make the first step. The Barbeque is on the grill and my home is opened. If you want to meet that with a gun and tell me I'm part of the evil in the world or that I'm a virus, that's your decision. Further, that's what I will teach my children to do and the children of any Muslim I come in contact with. The Prophet said none of my neighbors should fear me. He said that I should know my neighbors seven houses deep in every direction. He said that if someone asks me to stay at my home, I should allow them for three nights, no questions asked and more if I wish. No religion is stipulated in any of these prescriptions. If I tell you I want peace from the heart and you treat me as though I'm trying to kill you, that's nothing I can control.

[scattergood]

Parsi does. ShimonG does. Our new poster Angry Lord does. Scattergood claims he doesn't then calls me a liar whenever I point to any moderate act by Muslims or says it's irrelevant. The article compared mainstream Muslims to people who were silent as the Nazis rolled in. It should be pointed out that the Nazis controlled steel production in all of Europe and most of the world. They had the best engineers and the best trained military in the world. The Islamists have a force trained on military theory that came out of Afghanistan in the 70s. They have no satellite intelligence or any force capable of doing anything but sniping. In short, they are fugitives who can't sleep in the same place two nights in a row without fearing a drone plane coming from a thousand miles away. Nor do they have any possibility of getting the funds to build any comparable military as they scamper about the world like so many rats to get a scrap of metal here and a scrap there.

To anyone of my parent's generation who actually lived through the Nazi era, that analogy is tragic and shows a deficit education. That you could compare those who killed 6 million Jews and marched into Paris as an equal threat to some goons that have to plan for a month to bomb a marketplace is a travesty to history.

This of course is yet another example of the paranoid delusions that Andak seems to be under. Firstly, I don't call him a liar or say it is irrelavant that one set of Muslims fights another set of Muslims. I applaud such efforts. However, I also, rightly, point out that their efforts are not sufficient. And that to rest on the laurels of a few protests or few arrests while ignoring the ongoing if not growing number of acts of terror is at best foolish, and at worst deliberate subterfuge of couter terrorism ideals.

Second, Andak's analogy is of course completely off base. The Nazi's didn't spring from nothingness and just establish the finest para military organizations and one day not control German industry and the next did. They built up their ideology, resourses, and support over time. Everyday Germans sat back and let them because they either felt they couldn't succeed, or didn't mind if they did because the ancillary benefits of German pride were worth it. Likewise, Islamists / Islamonazis / Islamofacists or what ever you want to call them have been building up over time, growing in ideological and real support for decades, all the while the 'moderate' Muslims have sat back and not done enough to stop them, either because they don't think the Islamists / Islamonazis / Islamofacists or what ever you want to call them will succeed, or they don't really mind if they do because of the ancillary benefits of Arab and/or Muslim pride.