The World's Worst Neighborhood

[andak01]

No offense, Andak, but maybe in your brain-washed teaching there is some other implausible explanation why black is white and night is day. But really, you might consider doing a brief reality check about what the Quran is saying and maybe take a few minutes to do some soul-searching of your own to see if the reality of the Quran is something you can truly stand by.

Don't talk down to me. I can read. Can you?

2:65
And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

THOSE AMONGST YOU WHO TRANSGRESSED IN THE MATTER OF THE SABBATH: WE SAID...

It doesn't refer to all Jews, the Jews it refers to were historic and aren't around anymore. So stop telling that lie.

Yes, we've already established that in the Canary Islands there are 2 Muslims who have not yet threatened their neighbors with Jihad.

Whatever. The propaganda continues. Out of 300,000 Muslims in Detroit, there hasn't been a single attack and only a couple of arrests over a period of years. Not all of those arrests have produced convictions. That does not constitute a hotbed of terrorism.

A completely different story, though, in places like the U.S., UK, France, Germany, Bali, Tel Aviv, Baghdad, etc, etc., etc.

We haven't been able to wipe out terrorism in the world. But neither has there been any significant attack on American soil since 9/11.

I don't mean to get mired in analyzing Islam, but it's pretty obvious that so much of the world's terrorism, and so many of the world's problems are caused by one ideology. Chief among its victims are not only Americans, Europeans, and Israelis, but anyone unlucky enough to live in the Muslim world and to be immersed in the hatred, racism, poverty and violence that is the direct result of that ideology.

The so-called Muslim world is among the places you will find the least knowledge of Islam. They've had their religion politicized and corrupted for generations. Let's take Morocco for example. There are less literate people there today than in the 12th century. The Koutoubia mosque was built in a square where books were sold in open air stalls. Now they have a 50% illiteracy rate. Do you think an illiterate person can fully grasp a religion whose first revealed word was READ! ?

As for the places you mention, lets look at the real statistics.

How many attacks have happened in U.S., UK, France, Germany this year? Last year?

Of course school massacres and things like this don't count as terrorism, since Muslims don't do it.

The Kirkwood City Council shooting occurred on February 7, 2008, in Kirkwood, Missouri, United States. A gunman went on a shooting rampage at a public meeting in the city hall, leaving six people dead and two others injured. Charles Lee "Cookie" Thornton[1] shot one police officer with a revolver across the street from city hall and took the officer's handgun before entering city hall. Thornton reached council chambers with these two weapons shortly after the meeting began. There, he shot a police officer, the public works director, two council members, the mayor, and a reporter. In total, the gunman killed five and wounded two others. He was then shot and killed by police.[1][4][5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkwoo...uncil_shooting

The Northern Illinois University shooting was an incident that took place on February 14, 2008, during which a gunman shot multiple people on the campus of Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Illinois; five of his victims were killed, eighteen were wounded. The incident happened on the campus's Cole Hall at approximately 3:05 p.m. local time.[3] The school placed the campus on lockdown and cancelled all classes until February 25. Students and teachers were advised to head to a secure location and take cover, avoiding the scene and all buildings in the vicinity of the area.[4] Six people died in the incident, including the perpetrator, making it the fourth-deadliest university shooting in United States history, after the Virginia Tech massacre, the University of Texas Clock Tower shooting, and the California State University, Fullerton library massacre.[5][6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norther...rsity_Shooting

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/06/tim...are/index.html

Bali? Nothing in three years.

Tel Aviv, maybe my research skills aren't so great. Has there been an attack in Tel Aviv this year?

Baghdad comprises ~50% of all attacks worldwide. Baghdad was not the center of terrorism in the world prior to the US invasion. Al Qaida in Iraq didn't exist prior to the US invasion. The Mahdi army did not exist prior to the US invasion.

[NewsGuy]

Don't talk down to me. I can read. Can you?

Sure, but unlike you, I'm not brainwashed, nor am I an apologist for a racist, hate-filled, and violent ideology.

2:65
And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

THOSE AMONGST YOU WHO TRANSGRESSED IN THE MATTER OF THE SABBATH: WE SAID...

It doesn't refer to all Jews, the Jews it refers to were historic and aren't around anymore. So stop telling that lie.

With all due respect, that's just nonsense. It's the same Jews that the Quran refers to as apes, and elsewhere as swine. 99.99999% of all Jews do not keep every single law of the Sabbath, and regardless of if they do, where does the Muslim religion come up with the sheer nerve of doling out punishment to Jews for observance of the Sabbath?

Whatever. The propaganda continues. Out of 300,000 Muslims in Detroit, there hasn't been a single attack and only a couple of arrests over a period of years. Not all of those arrests have produced convictions. That does not constitute a hotbed of terrorism.

Yes, Detroit's Muslim territories are a hotbed of support for terrorism, with millions sent by the Muslim community to terrorist groups whose stated purpose is to mass-murder Jews and Americans. Hamas is a perfect example. You know that very well.

We haven't been able to wipe out terrorism in the world. But neither has there been any significant attack on American soil since 9/11.

Only because of the enormous expense by the American taxpayer to increase its anti-terrorism efforts. There have been many attempts by Muslims to cause another 9/11. Unfortunately, all experts agree that it's just a matter of time before Muslim terrorists succeed.

Meanwhile, Americans are herded like animals and subjected to expensive, time-consuming and often humiliating body searches at airports, which is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the price America (and most of the world) pays for Muslim terrorism.

The so-called Muslim world is among the places you will find the least knowledge of Islam. They've had their religion politicized and corrupted for generations.

And you're complaining of being talked down to??

When it comes down to it, the "new and improved" interpretation of Islam in which its hateful and violent messages are whitewashed for Western consumption, is way out of step with the rest of the Muslim world.

This is an example of a survey which better describes the prevalent view of Muslims:

http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cg...=sr&ID=SR01102

Baghdad comprises ~50% of all attacks worldwide. Baghdad was not the center of terrorism in the world prior to the US invasion. Al Qaida in Iraq didn't exist prior to the US invasion. The Mahdi army did not exist prior to the US invasion.

There was plenty of Muslim terrorism prior to the invasion if Iraq. In Iraq, we now have Iran and Syria (both armed by Russia and North Korea), as well as al Qaeda conducting a war against the U.S.

[andak01]

With all due respect, that's just nonsense. It's the same Jews that the Quran refers to as apes, and elsewhere as swine. 99.99999% of all Jews do not keep every single law of the Sabbath, and regardless of if they do, where does the Muslim religion come up with the sheer nerve of doling out punishment to Jews for observance of the Sabbath?

Right. Well the only reason that would make sense is if it was God doing it because they broke God's covenant with them. What was the punishment for breaking the Sabbath as ordained by the Torah? Compared to that, being turned into a monkey is pretty tame.

Exodus 31:15
Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord; whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Numbers 15:32
And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks upon the sabbath day.

15:33
And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

15:34
And they put him in ward, because it had not been declared what should be done to him.

15:35
And the Lord said unto Moses: 'The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.'

But you willfully ignore what is in your own book, preferring instead to cast stones at ours. That's not a Jewish thing, that's your personal choice. Not every Jew makes false claims about Islam. You do.

Yes, Detriot's Muslim territories are a hotbed of support for terrorism, with millions sent by the Muslim community to terrorist groups whose stated purpose is to mass-murder Jews and Americans. Hamas is a perfect example. You know that very well.

300,000 people don't send "millions" to terrorist groups. They would be arrested for sending thousands. All Muslim contributions to all charities and all wire transfers out of the country by Muslims are being monitored. But then you know that. Anyone sending money to Hamas can be imprisoned. But then you know that. So, of the 300,000, how many are sitting in prison for assisting Hamas? 10? 5? 1% is 3,000. Is it 1% of 1%?

Only because of the enormous expense by the American taxpayer to increase its anti-terrorism efforts. There have been many attempts by Muslims to cause another 9/11. Unfortunately, all experts agree that it's just a matter of time before Muslim terrorists succeed.

They don't all agree. The ones who are busy making anti-terrorism into a multi-billion dollar industry do.

Meanwhile, Americans are herded like animals and subjected to expensive, time-consuming and often humiliating body searches at airports, which is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the price America (and most of the world) pays for Muslim terrorism.

And Blackwater and Halliburton and the arms dealers make hundreds of billions fighting it.

And you're complaining of being talked down to??

Yep.

When it comes down to it, the "new and improved" interpretation of Islam in which its hateful and violent messages are whitewashed for Western consumption, is way out of step with the rest of the Muslim world.

There isn't anything new and improved about it. Those interpretations have been around as long as Islam and considerably longer than the jihadi extremists.

There was plenty of Muslim terrorism prior to the invasion if Iraq. In Iraq, we now have Iran and Syria (both armed by Russia and North Korea), as well as al Qaeda conducting a war against the U.S.

How's that working out for them? Syria got bombed by Israel. Were they able to turn around and retalliate in kind? Did the US or anyone else in the West care? Well, no but. Did Egypt or Jordan come to their assistance and invade Israel? No.

On the one hand, you've got people making science project level missiles that, if they shoot enough are able to kill 5 to 10 people per year. Those people are (rightfully) in hiding, and they can be (again rightfully) assassinated or imprisoned if they are caught. On the other hand, there are satellite guided precision weapons and trillions spent for armies that can openly invade at will and take down a country. Are you seriously equating the military threat of one to another? That's brainwashing! Equating mass murderers that have a capacity to kill tens of people to genociders who actually did kill millions and who defeated Western Europe in a conventional invasion is pure malarkey. Hamas are not Nazis, they will never even be close to that. They haven't established popularity even in the Arab world. They have no means, nor will they ever have means to even put a hold in the separation wall, much less kill all the Jews of the world. To say otherwise is to deny reality. Let's look at a few differences.

- Nazis had some of the world's best engineers, physicists, inventors and military experts. So much was this so that Russia and America scrambled to get them after the war. How many potential Nobel scientists are members of Hamas?

- Nazis controlled world steel production. How many useful military raw materials does Hamas produce. What natural resources do they have at their disposal?

- Nazis were some of the most well organized people the world had ever known. They used their organizational skills to hideous effect. And Hamas?

- Nazis had the Luftwaffe, the best trained airforce of their day. They invented the concept of the blizkrieg. The threat of Hamas using its mighty airforce to bomb Israel a la Guernica? Nil minus nil?

- Nazis killed six million Jews. Hamas has killed in their entire history, what? I'll tell you, less than a thousand, everyone of which is as much of a travesty as a Nazi death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...uicide_attacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rocket_attacks

[Yala]

What is it to Muslims or Mohammed if we keep the Sabbath? If it is so important to them, why don't they keep it? And if I am following this conversation correctly, it is A-O-K for Muslims to refer to us as apes and pigs when we don't keep the Sabbath? In that case, does that mean Andak thinks 99% of the Jews on Israel forum are apes and/or pigs because Mohammed said so?

[Yala]

But you willfully ignore what is in your own book, preferring instead to cast stones at ours.

Umm no. Last I heard we were in 2008 and no Jew was killing another for not keeping the Sabbath, however in 2008 there are Muslims on every Arabic TV station calling Jews "the sons of apes and pigs."

If Muslims in 2008 were not calling us apes and pigs TODAY we wouldn't even bring this up.

[andak01]

Umm no. Last I heard we were in 2008 and no Jew was killing another for not keeping the Sabbath, however in 2008 there are Muslims on every Arabic TV station calling Jews "the sons of apes and pigs."

If Muslims in 2008 were not calling us apes and pigs TODAY we wouldn't even bring this up.

They shouldn't and they aren't getting it from the Quran. Jews today aren't "the ones who killed Jesus", and Jews today aren't those likened to apes and swine. It's a misinterpretation and a lie for a Musilm to say such a thing. In fact, the more Jewish a person acts (meaning obeying the covenant and honoring the Sabbath), the less like those in the past he is.

[Steven]

Save the its only a few nonsense for you Muslims buddies. So you can continue to live in your world of deception and lies.


First of all Al Queada is NOT the only Islamic terrorist group and secondly, suicide bombers are not the only problem. Right now political Islam is an even bigger problem. The two ways of life do not mix. Those that need to live under Islam should stay in ISLAMIC countries.

Thirdly....

Wednesday, May 14, 2008
It's Only a Few.....That's What They Keep Telling us
Those that follow the worldwide problem of Islam, continually hear the popular "it's only a few" excuse by the Islamic apologists. Well, I beg to differ. Lets finally put that excuse to rest.

If it were only a "few", then how can these FACTS be explained?



http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/...they-keep.html

[Steven]

Don't talk down to me. I can read. Can you?

2:65
And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

THOSE AMONGST YOU WHO TRANSGRESSED IN THE MATTER OF THE SABBATH: WE SAID...

It doesn't refer to all Jews, the Jews it refers to were historic and aren't around anymore. So stop telling that lie.



Whatever. The propaganda continues. Out of 300,000 Muslims in Detroit, there hasn't been a single attack and only a couple of arrests over a period of years. Not all of those arrests have produced convictions. That does not constitute a hotbed of terrorism.



We haven't been able to wipe out terrorism in the world. But neither has there been any significant attack on American soil since 9/11.



The so-called Muslim world is among the places you will find the least knowledge of Islam. They've had their religion politicized and corrupted for generations. Let's take Morocco for example. There are less literate people there today than in the 12th century. The Koutoubia mosque was built in a square where books were sold in open air stalls. Now they have a 50% illiteracy rate. Do you think an illiterate person can fully grasp a religion whose first revealed word was READ! ?

As for the places you mention, lets look at the real statistics.

How many attacks have happened in U.S., UK, France, Germany this year? Last year?

Of course school massacres and things like this don't count as terrorism, since Muslims don't do it.

The Kirkwood City Council shooting occurred on February 7, 2008, in Kirkwood, Missouri, United States. A gunman went on a shooting rampage at a public meeting in the city hall, leaving six people dead and two others injured. Charles Lee "Cookie" Thornton[1] shot one police officer with a revolver across the street from city hall and took the officer's handgun before entering city hall. Thornton reached council chambers with these two weapons shortly after the meeting began. There, he shot a police officer, the public works director, two council members, the mayor, and a reporter. In total, the gunman killed five and wounded two others. He was then shot and killed by police.[1][4][5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkwoo...uncil_shooting

The Northern Illinois University shooting was an incident that took place on February 14, 2008, during which a gunman shot multiple people on the campus of Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Illinois; five of his victims were killed, eighteen were wounded. The incident happened on the campus's Cole Hall at approximately 3:05 p.m. local time.[3] The school placed the campus on lockdown and cancelled all classes until February 25. Students and teachers were advised to head to a secure location and take cover, avoiding the scene and all buildings in the vicinity of the area.[4] Six people died in the incident, including the perpetrator, making it the fourth-deadliest university shooting in United States history, after the Virginia Tech massacre, the University of Texas Clock Tower shooting, and the California State University, Fullerton library massacre.[5][6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norther...rsity_Shooting

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/06/tim...are/index.html

Bali? Nothing in three years.

Tel Aviv, maybe my research skills aren't so great. Has there been an attack in Tel Aviv this year?

Baghdad comprises ~50% of all attacks worldwide. Baghdad was not the center of terrorism in the world prior to the US invasion. Al Qaida in Iraq didn't exist prior to the US invasion. The Mahdi army did not exist prior to the US invasion.

Save the con. Mohammad himself was a terrorist and there have been attacks here.
The Muslim who shot the Jews at the Jewish center in Seattle.
The Muslim in San Fran who ran over all those people in the name of Islam.
The Muslim in N. Carolina who ran over people because of the U.S. Middle East policies.
The cabbie who just got convicted for running over the college students because they insulted Islam.
There have been numerous arrests. The 2 Egyptians with what they called "fireworks".
Somalian Muslims who was going to bomb a mall, another one in Chicago who was going to throw hand grenades into a mall right before Christmas.
There are more and the govt has stopped numerous MAJOR plots here. Sears tower plot, the Brooklyn Bridge plot, etc. Muslims cause the same problems EVERYWHERE they are, and it only gets worse as their population goes up.
As for Michigan, non Muslims are now moving out as it has become an Islamic sewer.

[NewsGuy]

15:35
And the Lord said unto Moses: 'The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.'

But you willfully ignore what is in your own book, preferring instead to cast stones at ours. That's not a Jewish thing, that's your personal choice. Not every Jew makes false claims about Islam. You do.

Sometimes I'm not sure if you're joking or serious by comparing modern conduct to things done during the times of the Pharaohs.

Yes, in the time of the Pharaohs, keeping the Sabbath was considered vital to the survival of the Jewish nation to that point that there was capital punishment in effect. That was abolished thousands of years ago.

But this is not comparable to the evil of Islamic racism that considers Jews to be monkeys and pigs, the result of which are horrific acts of mass-murder TODAY. This point of view, based on the teachings of the Quran, has resulted in the daily slaughter of innocents and events like 9/11.

Yes, I'm aware of your brainwashed point of view, which is that the vast majority of Muslims are ignorant of just how peaceful a religion Islam is. But we both know that's simply a disingenuous point of view that you committed to, as you try to rationalize why you converted to Islam.

In fact, the vast majority of the Muslim world is a cesspool of racism, hatred, and terrorism, and you are simply out of step and in denial of the facts.

It seems to me that decent Muslims should be busily working on writing letters to the leaders of the Muslim world, protesting terrorism and racism on Islamic forums online, and demonstrating in front of their embassies in protest. Of course, that assumes that there is a critical mass of peaceful Muslims, which unfortunately I have not seen much evidence of. Although, in all fairness, maybe someone like islamfac is in this category and maybe eventually, we'll see Andak doing the same.

[Yala]

Sometimes I'm not sure if you're joking or serious by comparing modern conduct to things done during the times of the Pharaohs.

This goes back to the Muslim belief that Koran and Mohammed are perfect and correct about everything. They ( Andak and like-minded) wrongly believe that Jews feel the same way about the Torah and strive to conduct ourselves exactly as we did 5000 years ago).

[MGB8]

Andak's back at work, it seems. Gee, it's true, I get on the news all the time and hear about Jews stoning people for breaking the sabbath, or otherwise putting them to death. Oh, wait, I don't... it's the MUSLIM countries and sects that do these sort of barbaric things - based on a tradition which views the Koran, Surah and Hadith as perfect and literal.

(Of course, this theory on Judaism ignores the Jewish oral law, which is part and parcel of the law; it's doubtful that literal interpretation of the verses Andak cited was EVER practiced. See sanctuary cities, etc. Ask Medio, he'll fill in better. ).

The rest of his posts are similarly nonsense. The Arabs tried to commit genocide on the Jews several times, announcing their goals (to this day) quite clearly. Or maybe "push the Jews into the sea" mean send them on a cruise, and "the land will be covered in blood" was in reference to that shi'ite ritual.

The Jews that survived in the Holy Land, after Muhammed's and his successors murder and domination of so many Jewish communities in the Middle East, survived so as dhimmis, second class citizens who were thus not a threat because they were dominated, subjugated.

Not many were left, notably. And as soon as Israel was created, 850,000 Jews, remaining in the middle east, were expelled by their "tolerant" Muslim cousins.

The deception and dishonesty in Andak's postings, ignoring well established fact (for how many years, he cannot plead ignorance) leads me to suggest that maybe he does not belong on this forum any longer.

Also, with respect to a nuclear strike on Mecca, if you go back, you will see that once again, Andak is lying by misstating quotes. I don't recall any quote saying "Mecca should be Nuked." I do recall quotes, some from myself, saying, in the event that Israel is destroyed, Mecca should be nuked as a 2nd strike - and that this option should be made well known as a military deterrant.

But, from the recent (and not so recent posts), we can see that Andak has absolutely no regard for truth. It's the same message, month after month, and after it is countered, he disappears for a little while, only to pop up later to repeat the same nonsense.

[Yala]

Although I agree he doesn't answer questions directly and compares things done by the Catholic Church 1500 years ago or Jews 3000 years ago to to things done today by Muslim terrorists or Muslim dictators, there is no reason he should be kicked off the forum. Do you want us to agree with each other all day long or to have an interesting forum?

[MGB8]

Although I agree he doesn't answer questions directly and compares things done by the Catholic Church 1500 years ago or Jews 3000 years ago to to things done today by Muslim terrorists or Muslim dictators, there is no reason he should be kicked off the forum. Do you want us to agree with each other all day long or to have an interesting forum?

Fair enough. But I hate the constant dishonesty. You can disagree without making false analogies (Jews and Christians treat crimes and bad acts the same way Muslims do) or at least tailoring the analogies correctly (e.g. "there are theological sources for Jews and Christians doing the same things that Muslims do, and since Jews and Christians overcame them, maybe the millions of Muslims who support such draconian measures in Sharia will reform, also"). You can disagree without flat out lies ("The Muslim world has never tried to commit genocide on Jews, things were hunky dory, look, there were dhimmi Jewish communities all over the place, even the Holy Land!")("People on this forum want to nuke Mecca [for purposes of genocide] [and, goes without saying pre-emptively, w/out similar provocation occurring first].")

Enough is enough. It's the same thing, every couple of months. You can have a different opinion, and have it quite honestly. Heck, I prefer the Arabs that come on to this forum and simply state: I think the Jews don't belong in Israel, that it is and was Arab land because we were the majority of the populace there, and I don't really care what happens to the Jews in Israel, as long as you leave, convert, or, if we're feeling generous, become dhimmis in a greater Arab/Muslim nation. If not, it's fair game for killing you all, you are the criminals and have no right to defend yourselves.

[andak01]

Yes, in the time of the Pharaohs, keeping the Sabbath was considered vital to the survival of the Jewish nation to that point that there was capital punishment in effect. That was abolished thousands of years ago.

And when was the last time that God turned people into monkeys and swine for neglecting the Sabbath (EVEN ACCORDING TO MUSLIMS)? Well, if the Quran is to be believed, it was before the revelation of the Quran. Besides some scholars believe that the whole thing was a metaphor.

But this is not comparable to the evil of Islamic racism that considers Jews to be monkeys and pigs, the result of which are horrific acts of mass-murder TODAY. This point of view, based on the teachings of the Quran, has resulted in the daily slaughter of innocents and events like 9/11.

Did you even read the last few threads started on your own forum??? Celebration of Pig Day in Padua? How would you like if someone paraded pigs over the site of a new synogogue? Seems you have a bit of a double standard. Baruch Goldstein was murdered??? At least this one got a rise from a couple of posters (I believe including yourself) that don't think it's right for a man to go in a mosque and shoot people while they pray.

Yes, I'm aware of your brainwashed point of view, which is that the vast majority of Muslims are ignorant of just how peaceful a religion Islam is. But we both know that's simply a disingenuous point of view that you committed to, as you try to rationalize why you converted to Islam.

What I know is that you have never proven that the Quran says THE JEWS are apes and swine. On the contrary, the most Jewish of Jews, those who honor the Sabbath and the covenant of God are not condemned in the Quran. This idea that the God of the Quran hates Jews is a lie, no matter how many times you continue to repeat it.

In fact, the vast majority of the Muslim world is a cesspool of racism, hatred, and terrorism, and you are simply out of step and in denial of the facts.

If the vast majority of a billion people were involved with terrorism, you and I both would be dead. That's another of your lies. In fact, though a single terrorist would be far too many, the number of terrorists per the billion and a third Muslims on the earth is a tiny fraction. Again, you can repeat the same lies, but the facts don't bear you out. If there were 10,000 attacks per year each planned by 20 unique individuals, that's 200,000 terrorists, far under 1%.

It seems to me that decent Muslims should be busily working on writing letters to the leaders of the Muslim world, protesting terrorism and racism on Islamic forums online, and demonstrating in front of their embassies in protest. Of course, that assumes that there is a critical mass of peaceful Muslims, which unfortunately I have not seen much evidence of. Although, in all fairness, maybe someone like islamfac is in this category and maybe eventually, we'll see Andak doing the same.

That's appropriate where it's appropriate in cases where governments are assisting terrorists. But many Muslim governments are no longer doing that and in fact are assisting to disband terrorist groups with their troops and their intelligence and their lives. In the face of informants whose families get killed and security forces that are shot and blown up, you continue to pretend nothing is being done.

[andak01]

Andak's back at work, it seems. Gee, it's true, I get on the news all the time and hear about Jews stoning people for breaking the sabbath, or otherwise putting them to death. Oh, wait, I don't... it's the MUSLIM countries and sects that do these sort of barbaric things - based on a tradition which views the Koran, Surah and Hadith as perfect and literal.

Which Muslim countries? All 57 or so of them? Or is it Iran, Iran, Iran, Iran and Saudi Arabia. When was the last time anyone was stoned in a Muslim country? All the time? Everyday? Well, no...but.

(Of course, this theory on Judaism ignores the Jewish oral law, which is part and parcel of the law; it's doubtful that literal interpretation of the verses Andak cited was EVER practiced. See sanctuary cities, etc. Ask Medio, he'll fill in better. ).

My opinion, he's better informed on just about everything and a lot less likely to fall for propaganda than most of you. He's no fan of Arabs or Muslims, but doesn't repeat lies just to make Muslims look bad.

The rest of his posts are similarly nonsense. The Arabs tried to commit genocide on the Jews several times, announcing their goals (to this day) quite clearly. Or maybe "push the Jews into the sea" mean send them on a cruise, and "the land will be covered in blood" was in reference to that shi'ite ritual.

You got something a little more classic than that? Perhaps you could show us why the early Muslims spared the lives of the Jews over which they had absolute control and why, unlike the Christians, they didn't make a habit of exiling them and outlawing Judaism.

The Jews that survived in the Holy Land, after Muhammed's and his successors murder and domination of so many Jewish communities in the Middle East, survived so as dhimmis, second class citizens who were thus not a threat because they were dominated, subjugated.

Whereas in Italy, they were being kidnapped by the Pope's henchmen and raised in Christian families until the 19th century and under Mousolini...?

Not many were left, notably. And as soon as Israel was created, 850,000 Jews, remaining in the middle east, were expelled by their "tolerant" Muslim cousins.

Almost as many as the victims of the American installed Shiite regiem in Iraq where over one million (including many Christians) have been displaced by threats to their lives.

Also, with respect to a nuclear strike on Mecca, if you go back, you will see that once again, Andak is lying by misstating quotes. I don't recall any quote saying "Mecca should be Nuked." I do recall quotes, some from myself, saying, in the event that Israel is destroyed, Mecca should be nuked as a 2nd strike - and that this option should be made well known as a military deterrant.

You're being totally dishonest. I hope you've swept up ShimonG's posts prior to stating this. Or for that matter Farmall.

But, from the recent (and not so recent posts), we can see that Andak has absolutely no regard for truth. It's the same message, month after month, and after it is countered, he disappears for a little while, only to pop up later to repeat the same nonsense.

I have absolutely no regard for your repeated defense of lies. I understand how you believe they serve your political stance, but ultimately this propaganda, this intolerance to criticism and this unyielding militancy will hurt Israel. Jews and Israelis are already beginning to recognize what a wrong path people like you are on and they are beginning to speak out about it.