Nasrallah: 'the war has started'

[NewsGuy]

Hoping for the Lebanese to clean their own house of Iranian and Syrian terror.

Yeah, I know it's doubtful, but why not be optimistic:

From news article:

BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- Gunfire broke out in downtown Beirut Thursday after Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah said recent government actions amount to "a declaration of open war."

"Just in the past few minutes ... things have gotten a lot worse," CNN's Cal Perry reported from downtown Beirut. The sound of automatic gunfire and rocket-propelled grenades could be heard throughout his live reports.

Perry, who took cover with the Lebanese army, said government forces have not yet reacted to the violence.

The gunbattles were taking place between Shiite and Sunni neighborhoods in the capital, near CNN's Beirut Bureau. Watch Perry call in through gunfire »

The Lebanese army, which is charged with trying to keep peace in the capital, is in a precarious position, Perry explained.

"When you're talking about this much gunfire, when you're talking about RPG fire, it's absolutely ludicrous to think that the army will put themselves between these two factions," he said.

Video of the scene showed tanks and armored personnel carriers moving through empty streets past shuttered stores.

The violence erupted shortly after Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah said the government's attempts to halt Hezbollah's use of a telecommunications system amounts to "a declaration of open war."

"We believe the war has started and we believe that we have the right to defend ourselves," Nasrallah said in a televised speech. "We will cut the hand that will reach out to the weapons of the resistance no matter if it comes from the inside or the outside."

At the same time, Nasrallah called for dialogue, saying, "We are ready, whoever wants a compromise, we are here and ready."

"Those who have taken decisions leading to war, let them withdraw their decisions and there would be no war," he said.

"Am I declaring war? Not at all. I am declaring oppression and self-defense."

Lebanese Communications Minister Marwan Hamadi said Nasrallah's speech "is a direct threat of assassinating us."

"We are not scared of the threat," Hamadi told al-Arabiya. " 'Cutting off the hands' is a direct threat of assassination.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/...lah/index.html

[NewsGuy]

"When you're talking about this much gunfire, when you're talking about RPG fire, it's absolutely ludicrous to think that the army will put themselves between these two factions," he said.

Sorry, I just had to laugh at this sentence.

There's too much gunfire going on in the capital, so it would be "absolutely ludicrous" to think that the army will intervene.

Wouldn't want the army to get involved with scary stuff like gunfire...

[farmall]

"Wouldn't want the army to get involved with scary stuff like gunfire..."

It would be stupid to get between them.

The way to solve these problems is not to prolong things by interfering with violence, but to allow violent change to sweep away which ever side is judged unfit in trial by fire.

[NewsGuy]

"Wouldn't want the army to get involved with scary stuff like gunfire..."

It would be stupid to get between them.

The way to solve these problems is not to prolong things by interfering with violence, but to allow violent change to sweep away which ever side is judged unfit in trial by fire.

Maybe in an example of 2 rival gangs it makes sense to stay out of it. But when the only international airport of a country is shut down by a terrorist group, which is also firing missiles in the streets of the capital in an efort to topple the government, it just might be a worthy occasion for the country's military to take a break from eating shish kabobs and napping.

[farmall]

"Maybe in an example of 2 rival gangs it makes sense to stay out of it. But when the only international airport of a country is shut down by a terrorist group, which is also firing missiles in the streets of the capital in an efort to topple the government, it just might be a worthy occasion for the country's military to take a break from eating shish kabobs and napping."

That's conventional reasoning. When one accepts that a united Lebanon is a silly idea, there is no reason to fight for it. There ARE reasons to seek power, but that is different.

The Lebanese Army may prefer a course of action advantageous to its members and leaders instead. If Lebanon is broken into segregated areas, fine. These trivial little pseudo-countries may as well collapse and re-form around natural lines of division. The weaker, the better.

[Mediocrates]

But it's not two rival gangs. It's many many rival factions, splinter groups and local criminals all fighting each other. The Hamas isn't fighting just Fatah, they're fighting everyone. And in the West Bank Fatah is fighting everyone. You assume a stable scenario is either one group wins or they make an accommodation. But even if that where true, the bell is rung, you can't unring it. There are weapons everywhere and people who want to use them. Every day there's a new group who pops up and if they kill Israelis they'll kill each other.

[NewsGuy]

When one accepts that a united Lebanon is a silly idea, there is no reason to fight for it.
[...]
The Lebanese Army may prefer a course of action advantageous to its members and leaders instead. If Lebanon is broken into segregated areas, fine. These trivial little pseudo-countries may as well collapse and re-form around natural lines of division. The weaker, the better.

That's an interesting issue, whether it's better for the region to have an Iranian-Syrian controlled canton system and Christian-controlled areas (which would be a natural ally for Israel and the U.S.).

But the trouble is that Hizbullah is not really seeking independence in the South. Rather, it's in the midst of toppling the Lebanese government and taking over the entire country, starting with the capital.

I'm not sure that Israel will be able to tolerate an Iranian province at its Northern border. Unless things calm down very soon in Lebanon, we may be looking at a third Lebanon war unfolding right before our eyes.

[j_y]

Maybe in an example of 2 rival gangs it makes sense to stay out of it. But when the only international airport of a country is shut down by a terrorist group, which is also firing missiles in the streets of the capital in an efort to topple the government, it just might be a worthy occasion for the country's military to take a break from eating shish kabobs and napping.

that's an asumption, no missiles were fired on the streets, what they use to eat is calles shish kabab not kabob and the word terrorist depends on what side you are on.

Both Nasrallah and M. Sadr have now been singled out in the region as important targets. The Islamic regime of Iran are going to have a hard time over the next three months. There's pressure from all directions as well as from within the country.

I seriously doubt that iran controls hizbollah the way you seem to suggest, after all hizbollah has been fighting israel long before ahmadinijad and long before they even got rockets

It may be so, because that 35% of the Lebanese population control the other 65%. The fact that Hezbollah has kept the country in a perpetual state of war and prevented even a president from being elected, shows that the minority does control the majority

according to who hizbollah represents 35%? they got more than 40% of the parlement seats and they were denied 40% of the ministers, they won more than 60% of university elections.and statistics are on their side

[Yala]

I seriously doubt that iran controls hizbollah the way you seem to suggest, after all hizbollah has been fighting israel long before ahmadinijad and long before they even got rockets

Wasn't and isn't Hezbollah an Iranian organization? They have Hezbollah there and it started out in Iran. The connection was always there.

according to who hizbollah represents 35%? they got more than 40% of the parlement seats and they were denied 40% of the ministers, they won more than 60% of university elections.and statistics are on their side

I agree. They will rule Lebanon in the upcoming decade. It is the will of the majority.

[NewsGuy]

[QUOTE=j_y;268580]that's an asumption, no missiles were fired on the streets, what they use to eat is calles shish kabab not kabob and the word terrorist depends on what side you are on.
No, this is not an assumption. The Hezbollah terrorists did indeed fire RPGs on the streets of Lebanon, and murdered about 60 people so far (that we know about anyway).

Here's a Lebanese account of what Hezbollah did:

From news article:

Journalists cannot gain access to the myriad areas of Beirut in which fighting is taking place. Al-Manar television claimed earlier today that Hamra is peaceful and calm, and yet opposition militiamen are positioned on my street corner regularly firing their weapons. They fired off an RPG a few hours ago. Those who try to walk out on the streets are prevented from doing so.
http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/20...llah_calls.php

BTW - speaking of shish kebob, one of the favorite places for Israelis to eat in L.A. are Lebanese restaurants. Excellent food. The best Middle Eastern, actually.

I seriously doubt that iran controls hizbollah the way you seem to suggest, after all hizbollah has been fighting israel long before ahmadinijad and long before they even got rockets

Yes, I've heard various Hezbollah apologists deny that the organization is controlled by Iran. I've even heard claims that Iran does not supply them with weapons or money or training. I'm not sure if this works in the Arab world, but here, we tend to go by the facts. As it is, even the Saudis stated openly today that Iran is behind the attempted overthrow of the Lebanese government. Is he a Zionist collaborator?

according to who hizbollah represents 35%? they got more than 40% of the parlement seats and they were denied 40% of the ministers, they won more than 60% of university elections.and statistics are on their side

Are you saying that Shiites are the majority in Lebanon? I think not. Yet, Hezbollah is in control of Lebanon's fate, shooting other Lebanese citizens as it tries to topple the democratically elected government. Even you would admit that this is overstepping their authority, no?

[Bonaparte]

I seriously doubt that iran controls hizbollah the way you seem to suggest, after all hizbollah has been fighting israel long before ahmadinijad and long before they even got rockets

Who is Ahmadi Najad? He is no one. Nothing. Khamini'i is everything. They have been fighting Israel before Najad, but not before Khomeini. Review history to know why Hassan Nasrallah decided to withdraw from Amal and where was Hizbollah created.

according to who hizbollah represents 35%? they got more than 40% of the parlement seats and they were denied 40% of the ministers, they won more than 60% of university elections.and statistics are on their side

According to UN statistics. The Shias are 35% of the total population. Hizbollah represents 35% if we assume that all the Lebanese Shias are Hizbollah. The 40% comes with his allies (Aoun has 20 MPs if we exclude Murr, but not Tachnaq). As for the "60% of university elections", that is an urban legend.

[Steven]

that's an asumption, no missiles were fired on the streets, what they use to eat is calles shish kabab not kabob and the word terrorist depends on what side you are on.

I seriously doubt that iran controls hizbollah the way you seem to suggest, after all hizbollah has been fighting israel long before ahmadinijad and long before they even got rockets

according to who hizbollah represents 35%? they got more than 40% of the parlement seats and they were denied 40% of the ministers, they won more than 60% of university elections.and statistics are on their side

Educate yourself, it is a fact that Iran supports and finances Hezbollah.