Nasrallah: 'the war has started'

[Yala]

I seriously doubt that iran controls hizbollah the way you seem to suggest, after all hizbollah has been fighting israel long before ahmadinijad and long before they even got rockets

Wasn't and isn't Hezbollah an Iranian organization? They have Hezbollah there and it started out in Iran. The connection was always there.

according to who hizbollah represents 35%? they got more than 40% of the parlement seats and they were denied 40% of the ministers, they won more than 60% of university elections.and statistics are on their side

I agree. They will rule Lebanon in the upcoming decade. It is the will of the majority.

[NewsGuy]

[QUOTE=j_y;268580]that's an asumption, no missiles were fired on the streets, what they use to eat is calles shish kabab not kabob and the word terrorist depends on what side you are on.
No, this is not an assumption. The Hezbollah terrorists did indeed fire RPGs on the streets of Lebanon, and murdered about 60 people so far (that we know about anyway).

Here's a Lebanese account of what Hezbollah did:

From news article:

Journalists cannot gain access to the myriad areas of Beirut in which fighting is taking place. Al-Manar television claimed earlier today that Hamra is peaceful and calm, and yet opposition militiamen are positioned on my street corner regularly firing their weapons. They fired off an RPG a few hours ago. Those who try to walk out on the streets are prevented from doing so.
http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/20...llah_calls.php

BTW - speaking of shish kebob, one of the favorite places for Israelis to eat in L.A. are Lebanese restaurants. Excellent food. The best Middle Eastern, actually.

I seriously doubt that iran controls hizbollah the way you seem to suggest, after all hizbollah has been fighting israel long before ahmadinijad and long before they even got rockets

Yes, I've heard various Hezbollah apologists deny that the organization is controlled by Iran. I've even heard claims that Iran does not supply them with weapons or money or training. I'm not sure if this works in the Arab world, but here, we tend to go by the facts. As it is, even the Saudis stated openly today that Iran is behind the attempted overthrow of the Lebanese government. Is he a Zionist collaborator?

according to who hizbollah represents 35%? they got more than 40% of the parlement seats and they were denied 40% of the ministers, they won more than 60% of university elections.and statistics are on their side

Are you saying that Shiites are the majority in Lebanon? I think not. Yet, Hezbollah is in control of Lebanon's fate, shooting other Lebanese citizens as it tries to topple the democratically elected government. Even you would admit that this is overstepping their authority, no?

[Yala]

Are you saying that Shiites are the majority in Lebanon? I think not.

They are absolutely the majority in Lebanon. And they are also the sect with the most guns and the most willing to die for their party.

[j_y]

http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/20...llah_calls.php

that's a pro goverment source, last month sources like that claimed that nassrallah was removed from the leadership of hizbollah pff plus last week, no one getting killed is refered to as peaceful

BTW - speaking of shish kebob, one of the favorite places for Israelis to eat in L.A. are Lebanese restaurants. Excellent food. The best Middle Eastern, actually.

well thanks

Yes, I've heard various Hezbollah apologists deny that the organization is controlled by Iran. I've even heard claims that Iran does not supply them with weapons or money or training. I'm not sure if this works in the Arab world, but here, we tend to go by the facts

iran does supply them with weapons and money,Sayyed nassrallah himself stated after the war 2006 that hizbollah will rebuild the south from iranian money, plus not to mention the rockets fired, they have the word iran written all over. what I am saying is that iran does not order and control hizbollah in an iron grasp like the news around says
As it is, even the Saudis stated openly today that Iran is behind the

attempted overthrow of the Lebanese government. Is he a Zionist collaborator?

Saudis is the US and israel's greatest ally. and speaking of saudis arabia, since the US claims to be fighting for democracy. you should notice by now that the media sheds light only on what the US wants. everyone talked about saddam and how he was a dictator but no one ever speaks about saudis arabia, a state named after the last name of the royal family "al saud" and that has been ruling for over 100 years and no one speaks of how women are deprived of simple basic rights such as driving, standing on the balcony or getting a fair trial if she commites a felony. anyway my point is yes saudis arabia would stand with the US and israel anytime

Are you saying that Shiites are the majority in Lebanon? I think not. Yet, Hezbollah is in control of Lebanon's fate, shooting other Lebanese citizens as it tries to topple the democratically elected government. Even you would admit that this is overstepping their authority, no?

no I never said that the shiites are the majority, but I said hizbollah has alot of supporters, hizbollah supporters are not just shiites, 60% of the lebanese christians support hizbollah and about 40% of the sunnis and over 90% of the shiites. the focus is always in bringing hizbollah to the front region
about shooting civilains, it's not yet clear among those who died who were civilains and who were not and who did the shooting. the goverment militias were not exactly adorable little lams like the media is talking

[NewsGuy]

They are absolutely the majority in Lebanon. And they are also the sect with the most guns and the most willing to die for their party.

Definitely the most weapons and the most extremists, but I don't think the most people.

An interesting fact about Lebanon is that there's not been an official census taken in more than 50 years, so as not to offend the various ethnic and religious groups.

Most non-Shiite Lebanese say 35%, and most Shiites say 40% on discussion boards.

[j_y]

an official census was never done on anything here. they just leave the article writers the freedom to decide whatever they want, hence the current goverment problem. anyone ever wondered why seniora was afraid from an early election? everyone here knows that seniora got the majority because the election happened a few month after Hariri was killed and because the propaganda that time was "if you don't vote for Hariri's party then you are defending those who killed his father" anyone ever wondered how hizbollah managed to take the country in less than 2 days? and don't tell me they were better armed, israel failed to take lebanon in 33 days and we all know then who has the military advantage. reality is no one likes the goverment. syria entered lebanon with the aproval of the US in 1989 and left 3 month after the US decided it's over.
claims that syria and iran are trying to control lebanon again are just as real as the biological arsenal Saddam had lol his arsenal turned out to be 6 katyusha rockets.
if seniora has all that popular support, then why does condoleeza rice has to call him daily and give him support? and if hizbollah is so much hated how could he stand all that internationnal pressure?

[Bonaparte]

There is no embargo against Arab armies. On the contrary, there is a huge amount of weapons being sold to Arab armies every day, including Syria, KSA, etc.

Syria gets its weapons strictly from Russia, never from the West, especially not from the USA. KSA receives weapons from the US due to their strategic alliance against the Persian empire.

But actually, Siniora did surrender in that they re-hired the Hezbollah Beirut airport security chief, and will now allow Hezbollah's terrorist communications network to remain. Those were the 2 elements that were in dispute.

When an armed group defies the government and gets its way, that's surrender.

Sanioura didn't re-hire the Hezbollah terrorist security chief. That is the main reason why an Arab group will arrive to Lebanon today in order to find a solution.

It may be so, because that 35% of the Lebanese population control the other 65%. The fact that Hezbollah has kept the country in a perpetual state of war and prevented even a president from being elected, shows that the minority does control the majority. It gets back to the Lebanese being too afraid to let the majority rule and to stop their needless state of war with Israel -- and with themselves.

35% if we don't count his allies, especially General Aoun.

[Bonaparte]

I seriously doubt that iran controls hizbollah the way you seem to suggest, after all hizbollah has been fighting israel long before ahmadinijad and long before they even got rockets

Who is Ahmadi Najad? He is no one. Nothing. Khamini'i is everything. They have been fighting Israel before Najad, but not before Khomeini. Review history to know why Hassan Nasrallah decided to withdraw from Amal and where was Hizbollah created.

according to who hizbollah represents 35%? they got more than 40% of the parlement seats and they were denied 40% of the ministers, they won more than 60% of university elections.and statistics are on their side

According to UN statistics. The Shias are 35% of the total population. Hizbollah represents 35% if we assume that all the Lebanese Shias are Hizbollah. The 40% comes with his allies (Aoun has 20 MPs if we exclude Murr, but not Tachnaq). As for the "60% of university elections", that is an urban legend.

[Yala]

Definitely the most weapons and the most extremists, but I don't think the most people.

An interesting fact about Lebanon is that there's not been an official census taken in more than 50 years, so as not to offend the various ethnic and religious groups.

Most non-Shiite Lebanese say 35%, and most Shiites say 40% on discussion boards.

What I meant was they are not the most people, but they are the largest sect and that is all that counts in a sectarian country. In terms of sect population it is something like: Shiite, Christian, Sunni then Druze. Even if we take the non-Shia estimate of 35% Shia, you can imagine what a small portion of the population the rest of the sects are.

[Yala]

and if hizbollah is so much hated how could he stand all that internationnal pressure?

Hezbollah is not hated in Lebanon by most of the people at all. Any Israelis thinking this are delusional. We saw during the war how all Lebanese proclaimed Hezbollah as the "Lebanese Resistence."

At the very least Hezbollah are supported and revered by at least 50% of the population. As Bonaparte stated Hezbollah has a popular and key Christian politician on his side.

We also know if you don't call Israel "the enemy" then you are not a real Lebanese and are a Zionist. We all remember PM Siniora proclaiming that Lebanon will be the last Arab country to make peace with Israel. So in my eyes the Lebanese deserve Hezbollah and I hope they enjoy them. It will become the first ME country since Iran to be ruled by Islamists, but it certainly won't be the last.

[Mediocrates]

Come to think of it how did Russia, Poland, East Germany, China, North Korea, Cambodia, Mozambique, Sudan, Somalia, Uganda, Rwanda, the C.A.R., SWAPO, MPLA, UNITA, Nigeria, the LRA, Zaire, FARC, Haiti and about 25 other countries or organizations replete with savagery and atrocities or just plain old garden variety repression, famine, hate, corruption, negligence, incompetence, greed and paranoia thrive for decades and decades on and on?

Because lots of other people and countries have their own reasons for seeing them either succeed or continue to do whatever it is they were doing along the way to failure. Either way - that's a status quo many people are happy with.

[Bonaparte]

Hezbollah is not hated in Lebanon by most of the people at all. Any Israelis thinking this are delusional. We saw during the war how all Lebanese proclaimed Hezbollah as the "Lebanese Resistence."

At the very least Hezbollah are supported and revered by at least 50% of the population. As Bonaparte stated Hezbollah has a popular and key Christian politician on his side.

We also know if you don't call Israel "the enemy" then you are not a real Lebanese and are a Zionist. We all remember PM Siniora proclaiming that Lebanon will be the last Arab country to make peace with Israel. So in my eyes the Lebanese deserve Hezbollah and I hope they enjoy them. It will become the first ME country since Iran to be ruled by Islamists, but it certainly won't be the last.

Yala, what PM Sanioura said is to avoid a civil war. PM Sanioura said that Lebanon will be the last Arab country to sign peace with Israel, but not the last country to end its war with Israel.

The pro-government's political agenda is:

1- To declare a cease-fire with Israel
2- Positive neutrality regarding the Israeli-Arabic conflict.


After what happened during the last week, Hizbollah lost its "divine holy resistance" adjectif. MP Hariri referred to them as a militia, MP Ahdab reffered to them as the ex-resistance on Al-Arabia, Samir Geagea has never considered them a resistance in the first place, PM Sanioura compared what they have done to Beyrouth to what Sharon did. MP Jumblat referred to their weapons as the "weapons of treason" long time ago.

[Bonaparte]

Come to think of it how did Russia, Poland, East Germany, China, North Korea, Cambodia, Mozambique, Sudan, Somalia, Uganda, Rwanda, the C.A.R., SWAPO, MPLA, UNITA, Nigeria, the LRA, Zaire, FARC, Haiti and about 25 other countries or organizations replete with savagery and atrocities or just plain old garden variety repression, famine, hate, corruption, negligence, incompetence, greed and paranoia thrive for decades and decades on and on?

Because lots of other people and countries have their own reasons for seeing them either succeed or continue to do whatever it is they were doing along the way to failure. Either way - that's a status quo many people are happy with.

The status quo is what was targeted when the government took these 2 famous decisions.

[NewsGuy]

anyone ever wondered how hizbollah managed to take the country in less than 2 days? and don't tell me they were better armed, israel failed to take lebanon in 33 days and we all know then who has the military advantage.

That's an interesting point. Hezbollah and Amal have obviously been plotting for a long time how to overthrow the government militarily. Their soldiers knew exactly where to go and how to take over Beirut and other cities along the coast, which control the country's borders.

But, if we look at this more closely, Hezbollah was only able to position troops in Beirut, not really take control. They did not confront any real army, nor any real resistance. They were received either by their supporters, or by an opposition that quickly surrendered. Notice that Hezbollah did not go into the Druze or Christian strongholds, where they would have received fierce resistance (except in Aoun's districts).

As we see all over the world (including Lebanon), it's one thing to position troops in a country. It's another thing completely to fight an ongoing guerrilla resistance. I don't believe that Hezbollah would be able to control the country, but it might be able to chop up Lebanon into pieces ruled by it and Iran, mainly Southern Lebanon.

However... If Hezbollah became the official government, I'm pretty sure that Israel would return to wipe it out before Iranian nukes could find their way to Israel's Northern Border.

if seniora has all that popular support, then why does condoleeza rice has to call him daily and give him support? and if hizbollah is so much hated how could he stand all that internationnal pressure?

Siniora is a weak leader who does not have what it takes to stand up to Iran and Syria. As I've said previously, what's needed is a coalition between Jumblatt and Hariri.

Yes, in the past, Hezbollah was very popular, as it was seen as defeating Israel's cowardly Ehud Barak and corrupt Olmert. But now that the Lebanese have seen Hezbollah's Iranian weapons turned on their own citizens, I think the perception has changed. It's become obvious that Hezbollah is not a defense against Israel, but an offensive force set to return Lebanon to the bad old days of the 70's. I don't think that most Lebanese want that.

[NewsGuy]

At the very least Hezbollah are supported and revered by at least 50% of the population. As Bonaparte stated Hezbollah has a popular and key Christian politician on his side.

That's true for the moment. It will be interesting to see how much longer the Ayatollahs can convince Aoun's Christians that being Shia Dhimmis is a good idea.