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Thread: Israeli-Syrian Peace Plan

  1. #1
    Senior Member NewsGuy's Avatar
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    Israeli-Syrian Peace Plan

    It's now public knowledge that Israel and Syria have been involved in peace negotiations brokered by Turkey.

    Today, the Syrian foreign minister announced that the Olmert government has agreed to cede all of the Golan Heights to Syria, which will mean that Syria will now border on the Sea of Galilee, like in the bad old days.

    It has not been announced what Syria will give in return.

    If I understand this correctly, the agreement is likely to result in yet another ethnic cleansing of Jews from the land of Israel, similar to the ethnic cleansing done by Olmert in Gaza, which resulted in disaster.

    The Gaza ethnic cleansing also proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the entire concept of land-for-peace is flawed, and that the true aim of the Arabs is to gain Jewish land from which to more conveniently fire missiles into Israeli population centers.

    In terms of peace, we also saw that Arabs and Israelis have not been able to forge normal relations between their citizens. Take Egypt and Jordan, for example, where enroumous land concessions resulted in nothing but continued hatred between the people.

    So, if peace agreements with the Arabs have resulted in loss of land and devastation for thousands of Jewish families, in exchange for terrorism and hatred, why do it? Why not wait until the Arabs produce a generation that is capable of making true peace?
    "All we are saying is give peace a chance." - John Lennon

  2. #2
    Senior Member Mil's Avatar
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    don't warry. Nothing is going to happen until there is going to be a regime change in Syria.
    Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Israel would rather see the Alawites remain in control of Syria with the assumption that anything else would be worse.

    From Stratfor:

    From news article:

    Talk of a Syrian-Israeli Peace Agreement

    There also is the ongoing discussion of a Syrian-Israeli peace agreement. Turkey is brokering these talks, driven by a desire to see a stable Syria along its border and to become a major power broker in the region. The Turks are slowly increasing their power and influence under the expectation that in due course, as the U.S. withdraws from Iraq, a power vacuum will exist that Turkey will have to — and want to — fill. Turkish involvement in Syria represents a first step in exercising diplomatic influence to Turkey’s south.

    Syria has an interest in a settlement with Israel. The al Assad government is composed of an ethnic minority — the Alawites, a heterodox offshoot of Shiite Islam. It is a secular government with ideological roots much closer to Fatah than to Hamas (both religious and Sunni) or Hezbollah (Shiite but religious). It presides over a majority Sunni country, and it has brutally suppressed Sunni religiosity before. At a time when the Saudis, who do not like Syria, are flush with cash and moving with confidence, the al Assad regime has increased concerns about Sunni dissatisfaction. Moreover, its interests are not in Israel, but in Lebanon, where the region’s commercial wealth is concentrated.

    Syria dabbles in all the muddy waters of the region. It has sent weapons to Sunni jihadists. Hamas’ exiled central leadership is in Damascus. It supports Hezbollah in Lebanon. Syria thus rides multiple and incompatible horses in an endless balancing act designed to preserve the al Assad government. The al Assads have been skillful politicians, but in the end, their efforts have been all tactics and no strategy. The Turks, who do not want to see chaos on their southern border, are urging the Syrians to a strategic decision, or more precisely to the status quo ante 2006.

    The United States has never trusted the al Assads, but the situation became particularly venomous after the 2003 invasion of Iraq, when the Syrians, for complex political reasons, decided to allow Sunni fundamentalists to transit through Syria into Iraq. The Syrian motive was to inoculate itself against Sunni fundamentalism — which opposed Damascus — by making itself useful to the Sunni fundamentalists. The United States countered the Syrian move by generating pressure that forced the Syrian army out of Lebanon.

    The Israelis and Syrians have had a working understanding on Lebanon ever since the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon. Under this understanding, the Syrians would be the dominant force in Lebanon, extracting maximum economic advantage while creating a framework for stability. In return, Syria would restrain Hezbollah both from attacks on Israel and from attacks on Syrian allies in Lebanon — which include many groups opposed to Hezbollah.

    The Syrian withdrawal was not greeted with joy in Israel. First, the Israelis liked the arrangement, as it secured their frontier with Lebanon. Second, the Israelis did not want anything to happen to the al Assad regime. Anything that would replace the al Assads would, in the Israeli mind, be much worse. Israel, along with the al Assads, did not want regime change in Damascus and did not want chaos in Lebanon, but did want Hezbollah to be controlled by someone other than Israel. And this was a point of tension between Israel and the United States, which was prepared to punish the al Assads for their interference in Iraq — even if the successor Syrian regime would be composed of the Sunni fundamentalists the Syrians had aided.
    The Turkish argument is basically that the arrangement between Syria and Lebanon prior to 2006 was in the best interests of Israel and Syria, but that its weakness was that it was informal. Unlike the Israeli-Egyptian or Israeli-Jordanian agreements, which have been stable realities in the region, the Israeli-Syrian relationship was a wink and a nod that could not stand up under U.S. pressure. Turkey has therefore been working to restore the pre-2006 reality, this time formally.

    Two entities clearly oppose this settlement. One is the United States. Another is Hezbollah.

    The United States sees Syria as a destabilizing factor in the region, regardless of Syria’s history in Lebanon. In addition, as Saudi oil revenues rise and U.S. relations with Sunnis in Iraq improve, the Americans must listen very carefully to the Saudis. As we pointed out, the Saudis view Syria — a view forged during the 1970s — as an enemy. The Saudis also consider the Alawite domination of Syrian Sunnis as unacceptable in the long run. Saudi Arabia is also extremely worried about the long-term power of Hezbollah (and Iran) and does not trust the Syrians to control the Shiite group. More precisely, the Saudis believe the Syrians will constrain Hezbollah against Israel, but not necessarily against Saudi and other Sunni interests. The United States is caught between Israeli interest in a formal deal and Saudi hostility. With its own sympathies running against Syria , the U.S. tendency is to want to gently sink the deal.

    In this, U.S. interests ironically are aligned with Hezbollah and, to some extent, Iran. Hezbollah grew prosperous under Syrian domination, but it did not increase its political power. The Syrians kept the Shiite group in a box to be opened in the event of war. Hezbollah does not want to go into that box again. It is enjoying its freedom of action to pursue its own interests independent of Syria. It is in Hezbollah’s interests to break the deal. Lacking many allies, the Iranians need the Syrians, as different as the Syrians are ideologically. Iran is walking a tightrope between Syria and Hezbollah on this. But Tehran, too, would like to sink the talks.


  4. #4
    Senior Member NewsGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mediocrates View Post
    Israel would rather see the Alawites remain in control of Syria with the assumption that anything else would be worse.
    Right, that's why Israel has basically saved Assad from being toppled alongside Saddam.

    From news article:

    Hezbollah grew prosperous under Syrian domination, but it did not increase its political power. The Syrians kept the Shiite group in a box to be opened in the event of war. Hezbollah does not want to go into that box again.


    Unfortunately, as of today, that's no longer the case. Hezbollah has defeated the Lebanese government, and has seized the right to veto all government decisions, and to continue building its army.

    "All we are saying is give peace a chance." - John Lennon

  5. #5
    Senior Member Yala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewsGuy View Post
    similar to the ethnic cleansing done by Olmert in Gaza, which resulted in disaster.
    In all fairness the disengagement was done by Sharon and not Olmert, although he obviously supported it.

    The Gaza ethnic cleansing also proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the entire concept of land-for-peace is flawed
    Not to leftists.
    "It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders

  6. #6
    Senior Member NewsGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yala View Post
    In all fairness the disengagement was done by Sharon and not Olmert, although he obviously supported it.
    Yes, Olmert worked hand in hand with Sharon, as Olmert was the #2 man, and being groomed for succession.

    As a separate issue -

    From news article:


    Netanyahu: Golan pullout would put Israel on Iran's front lines

    Opposition leader and Likud chairman Benjamin Netanyahu warned Thursday that a withdrawal from the Golan Heights would put Israel on Iran's front lines.

    Netanyahu convened the Likud for a special party session in Tel Aviv, in light of Syria's declaration that Israel has committed to pull out of the Golan Heights and return to the 1967 borders as part of its renewed negotiations for peace.

    "Giving of the Golan Heights will turn the Golan into Iran's front lines which will threaten the whole state of Israel," Netanyahu told party members.

    [...]

    "This irresponsibility can be added to the failed conduct of the Second Lebanon War, the failure to prevent Hezbollah's new and heightened rearmament, the failure to prevent Qassam fire on southern Israel. We must not let the Kadima government continue its chain of failures," he said.

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/986206.html

    "All we are saying is give peace a chance." - John Lennon

  7. #7
    islamfac
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    Can I ask a silly question...

    I see a lot of contraversy on this...

    Is Ariel Sharon dead or alive?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Alive, vegetative coma.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Mil's Avatar
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    Syria is f**ed. Nothing will happen unless something happens in Syria.
    Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.

  10. #10
    Hisardut
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    jerusalem next... good work israel...

    whole world -> <-jews

    jews with brains ->

    jews who voted for olmert ->

    arabs ->

    europe - >

    chance of peace ->

    anti semites ->

  11. #11
    Hisardut
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mediocrates View Post
    Alive, vegetative coma.
    punished by god for his crimes

  12. #12
    Steven
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    It is all a con by Syria.
    While Israel talks peace, Syria prepares for war

    Lekarev Report

    Syria’s Shopping Trip to Moscow

    A Syrian military delegation carried a rather long shopping list to Moscow this past Monday, May 19 - a list which clearly demonstrates the transformation in military strategic thinking in Damascus since Israel destroyed the Syrian plutonium reactor last September.

    With $ 5 billion to spend - mostly put up by Tehran - the list features sophisticated surface missiles, air force fighter-bombers, light fighter planes, short-range cruise missiles, submarines and short-range anti-air missiles for defense against missile attack including the cruise variety.

    Historic Syrian military doctrine has focused on defense against an Israeli armored invasion. But the new thinking introduces tactics and hardware elements to enable Syria’s air force, missile units and navy to mount counter attacks. A Russian-made short-range air arm would protect Syria’s armored divisions, rival the superiority of Israel’s air force and helicopter-borne anti-tank rocket capabilities, and go on the offensive against Israeli tank columns.

    Syria’s air force and air defense chief, Gen. Akhmad Al Ratyb, headed up the delegation to Moscow, accompanied by Syrian missile, armored combat and air defense experts and high-ranking naval officers.

    For their five-day mission, they split up into five sub-groups for visits to Russian munitions factories and bases where the weapons on their list are manufactured or deployed.

    Syria is eager to get its hands on a number of Russian made armaments:
    Russian Iskander-E surface to air missile, one of the most advanced today
    Fifty of the latest MiG-29SMT fighter-bombers
    The Pantser SIE air defense missile systems
    800 Strelets, short-range anti-air missiles
    75 Yak-130 light combat & training planes which outclass Israeli choppers
    Two Amur-1650 submarines capable of firing cruise missiles

    Quite the shopping list! Quite the budget!
    Posted by Ted Belman @ 6:40 am |
    http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=1114
    http://fieryspiritedzionist.blogspot.com/

  13. #13
    sharonbn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hisardut View Post
    punished by god for his crimes
    It is a sin to pretend to know god's plan and intentions.

  14. #14
    Senior Member NewsGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hisardut View Post
    jerusalem next... good work israel...

    whole world -> <-jews

    jews with brains ->

    jews who voted for olmert ->

    arabs ->

    europe - >

    chance of peace ->

    anti semites ->
    That's great!!
    "All we are saying is give peace a chance." - John Lennon

  15. #15
    Senior Member Yala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hisardut View Post
    jerusalem next... good work israel...

    whole world -> <-jews

    jews with brains ->

    jews who voted for olmert ->

    arabs ->

    europe - >

    chance of peace ->

    anti semites ->
    So funny. My favorite is the Jew who voted for Olmert with the confused face. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING WOULD HAPPEN??? Isn't it obvious he is willing to give away all of Israel to the Arabs, except maybe keeping a canton in Tel Aviv, if it means saving his chair???

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