Sharing the blame

[Miriam]

Originally posted by eyl
Israel didn't want military personnel on the inspection team to critique the operation.

Was this somehow related to criticism of the poor planning of the operation which apparently led to Israeli losses?

[eyl]

Instead of "to critique", read "in order to critique".
Most of the criticism in Israel regarding losses was not because of poor planning, but rather because that here are those who claim (and I agree, to an extent) that the operation placed too much restriction on the IDF to avoid civilian casualties (e.g. no air bombing), and that caused Israeli casualties.

Originally posted by Miriam
Was this somehow related to criticism of the poor planning of the operation which apparently led to Israeli losses?

[Miriam]

Originally posted by eyl
Instead of "to critique", read "in order to critique".
Most of the criticism in Israel regarding losses was not because of poor planning, but rather because that here are those who claim (and I agree, to an extent) that the operation placed too much restriction on the IDF to avoid civilian casualties (e.g. no air bombing), and that caused Israeli casualties.

You mean, bombing before the ground troops were sent in, the kind of thing the Russian army has practised in Chechnya - with advance warning to the civilian population, if it was lucky, to leave the place?

[eyl]

Originally posted by Miriam
You mean, bombing before the ground troops were sent in, the kind of thing the Russian army has practised in Chechnya - with advance warning to the civilian population, if it was lucky, to leave the place?

Something like that (if not as extreme) - e.g. any place there's resistance, flatten it from the air.

[Leon Uris]

Elke: In case you still have not grasped it, let me state if for you. The perspective of some "intellectuals" is clear.

The Jew is unjust.
The Jew is cunning.
The Jew is evil.
The Jew is wrong.

This was their view a millenia ago and will be for many more to come. Why waste your breath? And band-width?

I suppose one must criticize Israel for "human rights." Where, if at all, violations are an exception than the norm. One wonders why these intellectuals do not lecture muslims on such infringements in islamic countries? Oops, I forgot. Either they dont have the internet. Or if they do, they'd discover who he/she was and put a fatwa on him and his a$$ would be toast in a few days. Killed along with his family.

[elke]

Originally posted by Leon Uris
Elke: In case you still have not grasped it, let me state if for you. The perspective of some "intellectuals" is clear.

The Jew is unjust.
The Jew is cunning.
The Jew is evil.
The Jew is wrong.

This was their view a millenia ago and will be for many more to come. Why waste your breath? And band-width?

I suppose one must criticize Israel for "human rights." Where, if at all, violations are an exception than the norm. One wonders why these intellectuals do not lecture muslims on such infringements in islamic countries? Oops, I forgot. Either they dont have the internet. Or if they do, they'd discover who he/she was and put a fatwa on him and his a$$ would be toast in a few days. Killed along with his family.

I agree with everything you have said in this post, entirely. This is the biggest complaint I have regarding the various human rights organizations, as well as the UN and EU.

The reason it's worthwhile to argue the salient points, is that from my experience, most people are "undecided". The hard-core supporters and detractors of Israel cannot be moved, but they are a small minority. This battle is for the huge "middle", who will sway this way or that, based on whatever facts are presented. If the Palestinian supporters present their half of the argument, generously laced with half-truths and outright lies, we need to counteract this trend with the facts and our interpretation of them.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by Leon Uris
Elke: In case you still have not grasped it, let me state if for you. The perspective of some "intellectuals" is clear.

The Jew is unjust.
The Jew is cunning.
The Jew is evil.
The Jew is wrong.

This was their view a millenia ago and will be for many more to come. Why waste your breath? And band-width?

Now that these facts (according to the beholders) have been established what can be done about it?

Not much I’m afraid!

I think beliefs like that have become like a religion of sorts or a way of life for some individuals. The danger of course lies in the fact that they spread their beliefs and it distracts from the real threat, which is Islam.

In the late 1970’s young Iranian Muslims headed back to Iran from all over the west to take part in a great revolution led by Ayatullah Ruhollah Khomeini. Iran was plunged into an Islamic Fundamentalist state that is still governed by religious madmen.

Any university professor( I would imagine that it extends to teachers as well) in Iran that dares to give low marks to the revolutionaries or their kin is dead meat.