Jul 22nd: Once Again, bulldozer attack in Jer'm center, 18 injured

[redcake]

W

Sure I can. We all can, and I would say we must. This is the Jewish State first and foremost. It is not an Arab state, and Arabs who live here are an oddity. They are not any sort of Arab Israelis--there is no such thing, and should never be such thing. They are Israeli Arabs, ok. That does not mean they are loyal. They may like it here, so what?

Oh please. That's just stupid separatist logic. I get it, you dislike and distrust Arabs, and based on the behavior of SOME, you may have valid reasons. That said, the concept that Arabs can't live in a Jewish state is criminal. You can't create a separation between Jews and Arabs which doesn't exist. Much as you would like Arabic Jews to be less Arabic too, that's not going to happen either. You're living in a dream world, so accept the reality... Arab Israelis exist. They live in your country, and they have every right to live in your country just as Jews should have a right to live in their countries. The point of Israel was never to be a mono-cultural ghetto.

[KettleWhistle]

The point of Israel was never to be a mono-cultural ghetto.

A ghetto? No. But a mono-cultural Jewish state, yes. That's what this country is for, and that's what having a nation-state all about. Calling Israeli Arabs "Arab Israelis" is akin to stating that this not a Jewish state. You cannot have it both ways, and if you want to do away with Israel's Jewish identity, you may as well argue for a "bi-national" state for just to do with away with Israel altogether and make this whole place into a "Palestine".

Additionally, a mono-cultural country is not a "ghetto". Japan is 97% Japanese, and is essentially mono-cultural. S. Korea is 99% Korean and is monocultural. Italy is 95% Italian and is essentially mono-cultural. I wouldn't describe any of these countries as ghettos. Rather, they are all developed, generally prosperous, culturally interesting, and don't have their sovereignty questioned and most likely never will.

[bararallu]

Arabs and Israelis have completely divergent interests here. Should we disregard that over a few Arabs who don't care about their people's national ambitions? I think not.

Whats your position on those Bedouin families that fully support the state and send their children into the IDF? Majority or not. Then there are the Christian Israeli Arabs of various stripes who have not [AFAIK] aided the insurrection. Then there are the Druse, who are ethnically "Arab" and speak Arabic as their first language. Their contribution to the state should be unquestioned. The history of the state is different from the assumptions being made. What there isn't is this monolithic Arab presence. It is our prerogative to understand and act accordingly with all constituencies of "Arab Israelis". It is an Israeli failure to allow, what amounted to majority Syrian fellahin, from enfranchising as "Palestinians" on our soil. It will be another mistake to take blunt measures where unnecessary, and untenable, at this time.

[KettleWhistle]

My position on them is that they are not Israelis. They are Israeli Arabs, Beduins, Druze. Whether or not they served in the Army is quite irrelevant. My father served in the Russian army and was a law-abiding and loyal citizen of that state. It doesn't mean he was a Russian.

Israel is a Jewish nation-state, not a state of immigrants like the US or Canada, or a former empire state like France or UK. And so we cannot define the people of this country by the same means as those countries.

BTW, the most outspoken anti-Israel Arab MKs are Christian.

[redcake]

Israel's identity is a construct. Would you sit next to a Moroccan Jew claiming to be of an identical culture? You're both Jews in a Jewish State, but that's about it. You share a nationality of commonalities, but you also share a nations worth of differences. If your secure with what it means to be a Jew, and the natural diversity of a Jewish homeland, then on the surface it's no threat to have some Arab residents.

Additionally, a mono-cultural country is not a "ghetto". Japan is 97% Japanese, and is essentially mono-cultural. S. Korea is 99% Korean and is monocultural. Italy is 95% Italian and is essentially mono-cultural.

Two of your examples have minority populations, in large numbers (800,000 Muslims in Italy for example). They all have tribal bickering based on the problems which arise when trying to enforce cultural standards.

I think Bararallu is arguing the rest of my point.

[Steven]

Some people just do not get it. Muslims do not have to be the majority or even 50% of the country to get their way. That prayer site is a perfect example. KettleWhistle clearly gets it.

[KettleWhistle]

Israel's identity is a construct. Would you sit next to a Moroccan Jew claiming to be of an identical culture?

Yes and to the same degree as two Moroccan Jews, or two Polish Jews, or two Russians Jews can claim that.

You're both Jews in a Jewish State, but that's about it. You share a nationality of commonalities, but you also share a nations worth of differences. If your secure with what it means to be a Jew, and the natural diversity of a Jewish homeland, then on the surface it's no threat to have some Arab residents.

There is no serious threat in having some Arab residents. Having a substantial minority of hostile Arabs who want to take this country from its natives, desecrate our holy and historical places, etc. is a threat. Calling foreign nationals, Arabs or others, "Israeli" is a threat. You are forgeting that in the context of a nation-state, citizenship is not equal to national belonging. Otherwise, you simply don't have a nation-state.

So are you ready to do away with Israel?

[redcake]

Yeah, after all these years on the forums clearly you've just exposed me as wanting to do away with Israel. You're a super sleuth.

How about you just stop working under the presumption that all Arabs in Israel are potentially hostile?

[KettleWhistle]

What reason would I, or anyone else, have for that?

[Steven]

Yeah, after all these years on the forums clearly you've just exposed me as wanting to do away with Israel. You're a super sleuth.

How about you just stop working under the presumption that all Arabs in Israel are potentially hostile?

As their population goes up you will see more and more of them become hostile, that is what they do across the world.

[sharonbn]

Yaron Doron
Published: 07.30.08, 08:59 / Israel News

The State of Israel has discovered a new income source: Charging people whose vehicles were damaged in terror attacks for towing services.

A family of new immigrants from the United States was startled to discover the new policy while trying to overcome the trauma of the first Jerusalem bulldozer attack. The family was ordered to pay for the towing of its damaged car from the attack scene; other residents faced similar demands.

The Aizenshtats moved to Israel from the US four years ago. On the day of the bulldozer attack they were driving in their car with their three children near the construction site where the terrorist came from.

"We were driving and suddenly saw the bulldozer charging at us," Rochelle Aizenshtat recounted. "We were in shock and we started screaming." One of the girls in the car sustained light wounds only, but the car was seriously damaged.

The vehicle was towed away, and later the family was contacted by a government appraiser and asked to pay NIS 685 (roughly $200) for towing the car.

"This is simply a comedy," Rochelle said. "Our car was damaged in a terror attack, and now they're asking us to pay for the towing?" Notably, one of the owners of the towing company, Yuval Hadad, also slammed what he characterized as an "absurd situation."

"Regrettably, the government ordered me to collect the fee," he said. "I told them it's not alright. Isn't the experience they went through enough?" Hadad added that other residents were also required to pay the towing fee.

After the Tax Authority was contacted, officials said they would compensate the car owners and refrain from charging from towing in the future.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...575181,00.html

[pagan]

The problem is bulldozer . And people are blaming Muslims for it

[Steven]

Yaron Doron
Published: 07.30.08, 08:59 / Israel News

The State of Israel has discovered a new income source: Charging people whose vehicles were damaged in terror attacks for towing services.

A family of new immigrants from the United States was startled to discover the new policy while trying to overcome the trauma of the first Jerusalem bulldozer attack. The family was ordered to pay for the towing of its damaged car from the attack scene; other residents faced similar demands.

The Aizenshtats moved to Israel from the US four years ago. On the day of the bulldozer attack they were driving in their car with their three children near the construction site where the terrorist came from.

"We were driving and suddenly saw the bulldozer charging at us," Rochelle Aizenshtat recounted. "We were in shock and we started screaming." One of the girls in the car sustained light wounds only, but the car was seriously damaged.

The vehicle was towed away, and later the family was contacted by a government appraiser and asked to pay NIS 685 (roughly $200) for towing the car.

"This is simply a comedy," Rochelle said. "Our car was damaged in a terror attack, and now they're asking us to pay for the towing?" Notably, one of the owners of the towing company, Yuval Hadad, also slammed what he characterized as an "absurd situation."

"Regrettably, the government ordered me to collect the fee," he said. "I told them it's not alright. Isn't the experience they went through enough?" Hadad added that other residents were also required to pay the towing fee.

After the Tax Authority was contacted, officials said they would compensate the car owners and refrain from charging from towing in the future.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...575181,00.html

How stupid. They should take the fees out of that tax money that they give to the Palestinians.

[Mediocrates]

City government is city government.