Did the "Jenin Massacre" Hoax teach you anything?

martinw718 · 08-30-2002, 08:18 AM

The enemies of Israel are developing an uncanny ability to avoid being confused by the facts.

We heard so much about the "Jenin Massacre."

Now that even the extremely anti-Israel U.N. admits that it was a hoax, have any alarm bells gone off in the tiny heads of the anti-Israel mob?

No. Not a one.

If I lied my ass off to you today, wouldn't you suspect that I might lie to you tommorrow?

But Israel's enemies just continue parroting the cheap accusations as if the Palestinian propaganda machine's credibility recharges itself every night.

You critics of Israel please answer this question: At what point do you begin to question your information?

I am David · 08-30-2002, 12:23 PM

I don't think that they've ever thought of that, because the're not interested in who is actually right here, and who is wrong, but really only interested in critizing Israel regardless of if it's doing anything wrong or not. It's called anti-semitism.

DaMan · 08-30-2002, 05:46 PM

It taught me to get an independent and objective opinion.

The Israelis lied about the destruction and casualties they caused in Jenin!

The Palestinians also lied about destruction and casualties they suffered in Jenin!

The truth is somewhere between the two liars' stories!

DaMan

martinw718 · 08-30-2002, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by I am David
I don't think that they've ever thought of that, because the're not interested in who is actually right here, and who is wrong, but really only interested in critizing Israel regardless of if it's doing anything wrong or not. It's called anti-semitism.

"anti-semitism"?!

You used that word!

Don't you know we're not supposed to call anti-Semites anti-Semites?

Just because somebody wants the only Jewish state in the world to become Arab Muslim doesn't make them an anti-Semite. (i.e. "Right of Return")

martinw718 · 08-30-2002, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by DaMan
It taught me to get an independent and objective opinion.

The Israelis lied about the destruction and casualties they caused in Jenin!

The Palestinians also lied about destruction and casualties they suffered in Jenin!

The truth is somewhere between the two liars' stories!

DaMan

That's quite a load of B.S.

The truth is that there was no massacre. Even the U.N. admitted that.

You're out of the solar system on your moral equivalence space ship.

DaMan · 08-30-2002, 07:04 PM

Martin, I'm not a friend or foe of Israel.

But, I have enough military experience to know that what happened in Jenin only made the situation worse for Israel!

THE WHOLE WORLD found it pretty friggin' sickening! But the WORLD is only a small place! ;-)

DaMan

Teacake · 08-30-2002, 08:06 PM

Well Mr. man... would you please explain then why it is the whole world actually prefers to believe anything and every thing the plo PR office has to say... And why, with as many anti-israel seats in the UN, would this organization that would love nothing more to prove something like that happened... had to crawl back home and admit the story wasn't close to being true... you do know how many islamic dictatorships head the un don't you?

I am David · 08-30-2002, 09:39 PM

Sorry, but Israel didn't lie about anything, it is simply that the inconcistencies arose because even though there was no massacre, people everywhere were looking for at least something to blame Israel for, and so they scewed and twisted facts and provided baised information that makes Israel look bad.

yaaqub ishaq · 08-31-2002, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by I am David
Sorry, but Israel didn't lie about anything, it is simply that the inconcistencies arose because even though there was no massacre, people everywhere were looking for at least something to blame Israel for, and so they scewed and twisted facts and provided baised information that makes Israel look bad.

the israeli invasion of jenin was pretty bad in itself. it caused huge problems for residents of jenin, most of whom probably had nothing to do with terrorism.

it achieved nothing except motivated payback bombings, thereby fuelling palestinian anger against israel.

terrorism cannot be stopped with terrorism.

**Mediocrates** · 08-31-2002, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by yaaqub ishaq
the israeli invasion of jenin was pretty bad in itself. it caused huge problems for residents of jenin, most of whom probably had nothing to do with terrorism.

it achieved nothing except motivated payback bombings, thereby fuelling palestinian anger against israel.

terrorism cannot be stopped with terrorism.

That's a noble thought but it remains to be seen.

DaMan · 08-31-2002, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by I am David
Sorry, but Israel didn't lie about anything, it is simply that the inconcistencies arose because even though there was no massacre, people everywhere were looking for at least something to blame Israel for, and so they scewed and twisted facts and provided baised information that makes Israel look bad.

"I am David" Israel didn't lie?!! I guess they are just poor at math and geometry! We'll have to send some math tutors over to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (aka. Ministry of Propaganda). ;-) DaMan

Jenin, Palestine
32Â°27'39"N 35Â°17'20"E
According to our analysis of imagery released by the IDF, the area damaged due to combat in the Jenin Refugee Camp measures approximately 160 x 250 meters or 40,000 square meters, (about 6 acres). This represents about 6 percent of the total size of the refugee camp. IDF annotation of the same imagery and damage area depicts a combat zone of "approx. 100 x 100 meters."

UNRWA reportedly listed the area at 475 by 275 meters. The discrepancy in the numbers being provided by both Israel's IDF and UNRWA can in large part be attributed to the selection criteria for the assessment of damage, with the IDF apparently selecting a much more restritive criteria focused mainly on destroyed buildings.

A Flash presentation was later put out by the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs to rebut Palestinian claims on the extent of damage caused during the clashes in the Jenin Refugee Camp. According to the MFA, Palestinian claims did "not pass the test of reality". According again to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, only 95 houses were destroyed in the combat zone which itself measured only 200m2. The Jenin Refugee Camp, the Flash presentation claims, covers an area of 3,500 m2 occupied by 1,100 houses.

If the measurements released by the Israeli MFA are correct, this would amount to each house in the combat zone covering an average area slightly bigger than 2m2, and each house in the overall refugee camp, covering an average area of 3m2!

Assuming a likely mathematical confusion in the measurement of the combat zone and the refugee camp, mistaking 200 square meters (m2) for meters squared (200m x 200m), then the combat zone would actually measure about 40,000 square meters, equivalent to the area obtained from our original analysis.

Whether one accepts the official 200m2 claimed by the flash presentation or the more realistic 40,000m2 obtained from both our analysis and a corrected interpretation of the Israeli MFA figures, this widely differs from the original IDF claim of the area measuring 100 x 100 meters or 10,000m2.

danholo · 08-31-2002, 07:41 AM

Well, you're clearly ignoring the fact that a battle took place in Jenin and many houses were destroyed do to mines and in other combat situations.

Would you just drive your tank over a mined road or take another route?

Of course it isn't "nice" to destoy houses, but you're just examining the fact that houses were damaged and destroyed but you have no interest in the reason why these acts happened!

I'll give you an example. A person attacks you with lethal weapons in attempt to kill you. You kill him in self-defense and people start shouting at you: "Murderer, Murderer!"

In the case of Jenin, Israel was the attacker, but they did that for a good reason. You just don't oust some life long terrorists by public support, while at the same time dozens of your own are being killed by these twisted maniacs.
What would you do? Wait for "public opinion" to change dramatically, which would probably take a century or kill/arrest the terrorists by force?
Pulling out of the territories is not an option, since the terrorism would continue. Probably even at a more higher magnitude.

"Terrorism works! Let us continue our struggle for the liberation
of Palestine!"

May I remind you that an Israeli policeman can't just strut over to a terrorists house and arrest him and you can be sure as hell that no Palestinan policeman would arrest terrorists.
It never happened, even when the PA promised to detain them.
Now it's Israel's turn and everybody is whining.
"Murderers! War crimes! Apartheid!"

DaMan · 08-31-2002, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by martinw718 Now that even the extremely anti-Israel U.N. admits that it was a hoax, have any alarm bells gone off in the tiny heads of the anti-Israel mob? [/B]

Martin, I read the Secretary General's report and I didn't see anything about the IDF's operations in Jenin being a "hoax"! In fact the report is quite critical of IDF actions!

Read it yourself and show me where "the U.N. admits it was a hoax"!

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-es-10-186.htm

Martin, I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt! I'm just trying to get to the truth! And the truth lies somewhere between Israel's version and the PA's version.

DaMan

**Mediocrates** · 08-31-2002, 09:57 AM

Martin, I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt!

Of course you are.

What version of the truth are you trying to get to? What do you want validated? 100x100 meters is 2 football fields. Do the math or talk to Euclid if you don't like the way products work.

The entire Jenin camp enclosed no more than a few thousand - estimates vary from 7-15,000. Total casualties were what, 60? What do you want to hear 6,000? 60,000?

**Mediocrates** · 08-31-2002, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by DaMan

Martin, I read the Secretary General's report and I didn't see anything about the IDF's operations in Jenin being a "hoax"! In fact the report is quite critical of IDF actions!

Read it yourself and show me where "the U.N. admits it was a hoax"!

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-es-10-186.htm

Martin, I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt! I'm just trying to get to the truth! And the truth lies somewhere between Israel's version and the PA's version.

DaMan

If English is not your strength I can't help you. Stop pretending you can't read a sentence and understand it. That's just trolling.