Russia's war on Georgia

[Mil]

Russian forces are locked in fierce clashes with Georgia inside its breakaway South Ossetia region, reports say, amid fears of all-out war.

Moscow sent armoured units across the border after Georgia moved against Russian-backed separatists.

Russia says 12 of its soldiers are dead, and separatists estimate that 1,400 civilians have died.

Georgia accuses Russia of waging war, and says it has suffered heavy losses in bombing raids, which Russia denies.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili says he is willing to agree an immediate ceasefire

Russian tanks have reportedly reached the northern suburbs of the regional capital, Tskhinvali, and there were conflicting claims about who was in control of the city.

"Now our peacekeepers are waging a fierce battle with regular forces from the Georgian army in the southern region of Tskhinvali," a Russian military official was quoted as saying by Moscow-based news agency, Interfax.

After days of exchanging heavy fire with the separatists, Georgian forces moved on Thursday night to regain control of the region, which has had de facto independence since a war against Georgia that ended in 1992.


Georgia and its breakaway regions
I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars. It's impossible to count them now
Lyudmila Ostayeva
Tskhinvali resident

In pictures: Unrest in Georgia
Bitterness turns to conflict

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said Russia was at war with his country.

He told the BBC: "Our troops are attacked by thousands of troops coming in from Russia."

He said Georgia had shot down several Russian planes and accused Moscow of bombing Georgian air bases and towns, resulting in the death of 30 military personnel and civilians.

Despite denials from Moscow, the Russian air force has been carrying out air raids in South Ossetia and Georgia itself, says the BBC's Richard Galpin, in Gori, eastern Georgia.

'Ethnic cleansing'

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said he had to act to defend South Ossetia's civilians, most of whom have been given Russian citizenship.

He also voiced anger over the reported fatalities of Russian servicemen in the breakaway province.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov

"We will not allow their deaths to go unpunished," he said. "Those responsible will receive a deserved punishment."

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Moscow had received reports that villages in South Ossetia were being ethnically cleansed.

The BBC's Matthew Collin in Tbilisi says battles continue around Tskhinvali with the sound of explosions, rocket fire and military planes flying overhead.

The regional capital, where inhabitants are said to be sheltering in basements without electricity or phone lines, is reported to be devastated.


SOUTH OSSETIA TIMELINE
1991-92 S Ossetia fights war to break away from newly independent Georgia; Russia enforces truce
2004 Mikhail Saakashvili elected Georgian president, promising to recover lost territories
2006 S Ossetians vote for independence in unofficial referendum
April 2008 Russia steps up ties with Abkhazia and South Ossetia
July 2008 Russia admits flying jets over S Ossetia; Russia and Georgia accuse each other of military build-up
7 August 2008 After escalating Georgian-Ossetian clashes, sides agree to ceasefire
8 August 2008 Heavy fighting erupts overnight, Georgian forces close on Tskhinvali

Send us your comments
Q&A: Violence in South Ossetia
In quotes: Strife in Georgia

Fleeing resident Lyudmila Ostayeva, 50, told AP news agency: "I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars. It's impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged."

International Red Cross spokeswoman Anna Nelson said it had received reports that hospitals in Tskhinvali were "overflowing" with casualties.

In other developments:

* The UN Security Council was holding its second emergency meeting on Friday in a bid to end the crisis, after failing to agree earlier on the wording of a Russian-drafted statement
* US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called on Russia to pull its troops out of Georgia and respect its territorial integrity
* Georgia's president said his country was withdrawing half its contingent of 2,000 troops from Iraq to help deal with the crisis
* Russia said it would cut all air links with Georgia from midnight on Friday
* The European security organisation, the OSCE, warned that the fighting in South Ossetia could escalate into a full-scale war
* The US and the EU were reported to be sending a joint delegation to the region to seek a ceasefire and Nato said it was seriously concerned

[Steven]

The news said that over 1200 people have died already.

[Steven]

Un-f****king believable. If Russia is so concerned with protecting its citizens may be they should protect their citizens in Israel - which was recently bombed by Russian-built weapons.

I read Russian blogs and now they blame US, Bush and everyone else but themselves for the conflict. This is just embarrassing.

Putin is just a KGB thug who is just looking for any reason to go after break away states.

[farmall]

This is very good news because it can be exploited to solidify NATO against the resurgent Russian Imperialists. A unifying external threat can be useful.

The Eastern threat to Europe is back on display (after a microscopic intermission) and the newest members of NATO have great incentive to press for a reversal of the post-Old Cold War military drawdown.

[takeo]

Georgia has violated the peace-agreements and attacked the Ossetian capital Shinkvali. What was Saakashvili thinking? That the Russians would just watch how Russian citizens are being slaughtered and ethnically cleansed by Georgia?
Russia's firm response made clear that Saakashvili's dictatorial reign has come to an end. I hope they will not just push Georgia from South-Ossetia but also conduct a regime-change in Tbilissi. It's about time. The US nor the EU will do anything else than "expressing their deep concern". Anyway, even if they sign a cease-fire, Saakashvili is history. He is already deeply unpopular because of the economic situation and his dictatorial behavior, and this current madness will not be forgiven by his people. Also, now the chance that Georgia will ever become member of the EU and nATO is slimmer than ever. Noone want to risk war with Russia because of this unstable little country, and Russia just demonstrated that they will not tolerate anyone fooling around in their backyard.

[bararallu]

Russia is an old time imperialist, which under both the Tsarists and the Commies has ethnically cleansed other nationalities from their historical homes. The Ossets invaded Georgia, and then Russified, continue to harass a state that has always been good to the Jews, and is a beacon of western progress in the region.

[NewsGuy]

I hope they will not just push Georgia from South-Ossetia but also conduct a regime-change in Tbilissi. It's about time.

Funny to hear Leftists calling for bombing civilians and forcing a regime change. Of course, when it comes to Iran, they sing a completely different tune.

Anyway, takeo, this must remind you of the golden era of Communism, when Imperialist Russia brought the entire planet Earth to the brink of nuclear destruction and World War III. Good times...

[Mediocrates]

You miss the mark when you claim that everyone besides white Azkenazim are 'discriminated'. Are there classes in this imperfect society? Yes there are. Please stick to the real world please.

[takeo]

You miss the mark when you claim that everyone besides white Azkenazim are 'discriminated'. Are there classes in this imperfect society? Yes there are. Please stick to the real world please.

Many people in Israel complained to me, about discrimination (Arabs against Jews, Ashkenazi against sefardim, etc.) and about expensive life and poor wages.

[Mediocrates]

There was another comment about how Russia doesn't discriminate against Jews. Care to face the reality of that lie. Jews are routinely discriminated against. That is, the 300,000 who are still there. Most left for other countries.

[takeo]

There was another comment about how Russia doesn't discriminate against Jews. Care to face the reality of that lie. Jews are routinely discriminated against. That is, the 300,000 who are still there. Most left for other countries.

Care to provide any links, evidence of discrimination against Jews in today's Russia? So how does Russia discriminate against Abramovich?

[Mil]

Posted by Takeo:

Care to provide any links, evidence of discrimination against Jews in today's Russia? So how does Russia discriminate against Abramovich?

Abramovich does not even live in Russia And why Abramovich? I wouldn't recommend a hassidic Jew to walk through Moscow...

[Mil]

Posted by Takeo:

There are very few Buddists in Israel, but lots of Arabs. It seems you don't take this seriously, despite the many proves.

You did not prove anything. You just stated that there "there is" descrimination.

But on the contrary you claim Jews are discriminated against in Russia?



I'll ask you the same question, any (mainstream) links that confirm this?

Google it.

[takeo]

Mil

You did not prove anything. You just stated that there "there is" descrimination.

I provided facts, see above. Unlike you, who just claims "Jews are discriminated in Russia" which I find hard to believe. (of course there is some daily discrimination, but no official discrimination, and according to me not on the scale Israeli Arabs have to face)

[takeo]

Posted by Takeo:

Care to provide any links, evidence of discrimination against Jews in today's Russia? So how does Russia discriminate against Abramovich?

Abramovich does not even live in Russia And why Abramovich? I wouldn't recommend a hassidic Jew to walk through Moscow...

Abramovich is a Russian Jew, and according to you Russian Jews are persecuted.

Hassidic Jews stand out even in Tel Aviv. Because they look very different they may face some reactions, especially in Russia which is a bit xenofobic.
There are many more muslims than Jews in Moscow, yet I didn't see a single veiled woman. She would be in serious trouble. Russians are not necessarily racist but they don't like people to behave differently. Even if you sit on the floor in the metro or don't stand to the right you'll get nasty comments. They are less tolerant than French or American people, but not necessarily racist. For example many Georgians, Tatars and Jews belong to the cultural and economical elite of Russia. Those who behalve like Russians and are russified have no problem at all.

If I walked around with a Lenin or Stalin t-shirt I might not have any problem in Russia but certainly in the US. Or wth an Osama Bin Laden t-shit. (which they sell in the moscow basars). But when I was in Moscow I saw a few people with a "keppel", no probem at all. I can assure you however that any bearded ostentative muslim or woman in a Burka might face serious in Israel and be the subject of discrimination or worse.

But this are exceptional cases. I lived a few years in Antwerp in Belgium, they have a large chassidic quarter next to a muslim quarter. It was funny to see how chassidic people went to stripclubs on their bicycles and negociating in moroccon shops next to bearded muslims and veiled woman. Also in Eastern Jerusalem you see chassidic Jews negociating in Arabic on Palestinian bazars. It is true that Russia is more xenofobic.