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Thread: Auschwitz architectural plans uncovered

  1. #1
    Senior Member dayag's Avatar
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    Auschwitz architectural plans uncovered

    Important evidence found in Berlin:

    The German newspaper Bild published never-before-seen architectural plans of the Auschwitz extermination camp on Saturday that reveal, in their unequivocally marked sections, that everyone involved in the operation of Auschwitz knew full well that it was intended for the systematic extermination of human beings, the paper said.

    The floor plans, cross-sections and maps on yellowing paper, mostly on a scale of 1:100, were reportedly found during the evacuation of an abandoned Berlin apartment. They were drawn up between 1941 and 1943.
    The 28 documents include detailed blueprints of prisoner barracks, gas chambers marked clearly Gaskammer (Gas chamber) in a Gothic-inspired font and a cross-section of the gate into which the rails of trains entered carrying Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, disabled persons and other people the National Socialists sent to die.

    One of the maps carries the handwritten signature of Gestapo commander Heinrich Himmler.

    The plans were not construction plans but were drawn after Auschwitz-Birkenau was built (on the foundations of an old military base from the Austro-Hungarian Empire).

    On January 20, 1942, Nazi officials met in the resort of Wannsee east of Berlin where they devised the Final Solution, and this has traditionally been taken by historians as the beginning of the Nazis' extermination campaign.

    One of the drawings, predating the Wannsee Conference by eight months, sheds new light on the chronology of the German genocide machine.

    Dr. Hans-Dieter Kreikamp, chief director of the Bundesarchivs, the federal archives in Berlin, said the find was of "extraordinary importance."

    "The plans are authentic certificates of a systematically planned genocide of European Jews," Bild quoted Kreikamp as saying.

    As the plans show a "Laundry and shower room" leading into a "Dressing room" and then to the "Gas chamber," there could be no doubt of the purpose of the large room marked Gaskammer.

    The documents rebut the last of those who would deny the Holocaust, Bild said in its report.


    source:
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull
    "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you, if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy." (Ps. 137: 5-7)"

    "Any generation in which the Temple is not built, it is as if it had been destroyed in their times" (Yerushalmi, Yoma 1a).

  2. #2
    andak01
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    Re: Auschwitz architectural plans uncovered

    Quote Originally Posted by dayag View Post
    The 28 documents include detailed blueprints of prisoner barracks, gas chambers marked clearly Gaskammer (Gas chamber) in a Gothic-inspired font and a cross-section of the gate into which the rails of trains entered carrying Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, disabled persons and other people the National Socialists sent to die.
    The "Gothic-inspired font" is known as fraktur and it was outlawed as "Judenlettern" in January of 1941. Hard to believe that an official document would employ it after that time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraktur_(typeface)

  3. #3
    Senior Member dayag's Avatar
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    Re: Auschwitz architectural plans uncovered

    Quote Originally Posted by andak01 View Post
    The "Gothic-inspired font" is known as fraktur and it was outlawed as "Judenlettern" in January of 1941. Hard to believe that an official document would employ it after that time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraktur_(typeface)
    Fraktur was considered "Judenlettern"? That is truly bizarre.
    "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you, if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy." (Ps. 137: 5-7)"

    "Any generation in which the Temple is not built, it is as if it had been destroyed in their times" (Yerushalmi, Yoma 1a).

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    Senior Member Mil's Avatar
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    Re: Auschwitz architectural plans uncovered

    Yeah - construction of Auzwitz was started in 1940 when Gluck, I believe, identified Ocwencen as a place and assigned Hoss to build later. It was already accepting Jews and others by mid 1940s... part of the forced labor started working on the IG Farben Buna plant nearby. The camp later expanded into Berkenau.

    As to the font - why wouldn't the Germans use a font to print documents? Fritz Haber, the inventor of Zyklon B, was Jewish. does it mean the Germans would not touch Zyklon B? I don't get it.
    Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.

  5. #5
    Senior Member dayag's Avatar
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    Re: Auschwitz architectural plans uncovered

    If the documents were written in Fraktur, then that could be a sign that they are forgeries.
    The plans don't look like fraktur to me. See for yourself:

    http://www.welt.de/english-news/arti...l?nr=8&pbpnr=0
    "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you, if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy." (Ps. 137: 5-7)"

    "Any generation in which the Temple is not built, it is as if it had been destroyed in their times" (Yerushalmi, Yoma 1a).

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mil's Avatar
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    Re: Auschwitz architectural plans uncovered

    Auschwitz was a huge undertaking housing hundreds of thousands of people at a time and providing labor to the nearby factories - the largest such establishment of its sort. I am sure there were a lot of design documents on its construction created.
    Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.

  7. #7
    Senior Member dayag's Avatar
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    Re: Auschwitz architectural plans uncovered

    Quote Originally Posted by Mil View Post
    Auschwitz was a huge undertaking housing hundreds of thousands of people at a time and providing labor to the nearby factories - the largest such establishment of its sort. I am sure there were a lot of design documents on its construction created.
    I think the difference is that these plans clearly label the gas chambers and are evidence that Auschwitz was intended to be an extermination camp.
    "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you, if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy." (Ps. 137: 5-7)"

    "Any generation in which the Temple is not built, it is as if it had been destroyed in their times" (Yerushalmi, Yoma 1a).

  8. #8
    Senior Member Mil's Avatar
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    Re: Auschwitz architectural plans uncovered

    There are many other evidence that Auzwitz-Birkinau was an extermination camp.
    Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.

  9. #9
    Senior Member dayag's Avatar
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    Re: Auschwitz architectural plans uncovered

    Quote Originally Posted by Mil View Post
    There are many other evidence that Auzwitz-Birkinau was an extermination camp.
    I agree with you 100%. But this is just one more nail in the coffin of the Holocaust deniers.
    "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you, if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy." (Ps. 137: 5-7)"

    "Any generation in which the Temple is not built, it is as if it had been destroyed in their times" (Yerushalmi, Yoma 1a).

  10. #10
    andak01
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    Re: Auschwitz architectural plans uncovered

    Quote Originally Posted by dayag View Post
    Fraktur was considered "Judenlettern"? That is truly bizarre.
    I don't even want to begin to contemplate how the mind of a Nazi funtions.

  11. #11
    andak01
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    Re: Auschwitz architectural plans uncovered

    Quote Originally Posted by dayag View Post
    If the documents were written in Fraktur, then that could be a sign that they are forgeries.
    The plans don't look like fraktur to me. See for yourself:

    http://www.welt.de/english-news/arti...l?nr=8&pbpnr=0
    It's not Fraktur, nor is it a Gothic based typeface. They should be able to say with certitude who exactly put those together. Drafting is not a terrifically common skill and each draftsman has individual idiosicrasies.

    This is not neccesarily a nail in the coffin of Holocaust denial although it refutes some of their claims. Holocaust deniers don't uniformly discount the use of gas. Some only dispute the scale on which it was used.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Mil's Avatar
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    Re: Auschwitz architectural plans uncovered

    By dayag:

    I agree with you 100%. But this is just one more nail in the coffin of the Holocaust deniers.

    Nothing to deny.

    by Andak:

    They should be able to say with certitude who exactly put those together. Drafting is not a terrifically common skill and each draftsman has individual idiosicrasies.

    Most likely it's one of the ways to get this authenticated. The main way to get this authenticated though, besides the forensic analysis of the sample, is to compare it to other documentation on the subject. The primary issue with Auzwitz, and other such German establishments, was that much of the information was destroyed by the Nazis.... which of course leads to denial. The denial is not about concentration camps but about extermination, and of the existence of gas chambers in particular.


    Treblinka, for example, which served only one purpose - extermination and where over 1,000,000 were killed, was completely leveled by the Nazis. Treblinka was comparatively very small and only contained a few gassing chambers, a crematorium, a tiny camp for the inmates (all of whom were involved in clean-up), a small train station and the barracks for the personal. In fact German camp personal numbered just a over 100 people involved in everything from mostly guarding, extermination and management!!!!!!! Treblinka was completely leveled thus of course leading many determined deniers question its existence and of what was done there. The same for Auzwitz. The Germans leveled all the gas chamber buildings before they retreated. However, at Maidanek,the other big extermination camp, everything was captured in tact, including the gas chambers yet at Maidenek the Germans used Carbon Monoxide and not Zyklon B.
    Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.

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