Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 93

Thread: Proportionality

  1. #1
    ItsMyJewty
    Guest

    Proportionality

    Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'
    Hamas are the real war criminals in this conflict.

    By ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ
    Israel's actions in Gaza are justified under international law, and Israel should be commended for its self-defense against terrorism. Article 51 of the United Nations Charter reserves to every nation the right to engage in self-defense against armed attacks. The only limitation international law places on a democracy is that its actions must satisfy the principle of proportionality.

    Since Israel ended its occupation of Gaza, Hamas has fired thousands of rockets designed to kill civilians into southern Israel. The residents of Sderot -- which have borne the brunt of the attacks -- have approximately 15 seconds from launch time to run into a shelter. Although deliberately targeting civilians is a war crime, terrorists firing at Sderot are so proud of their actions that they sign their weapons.

    When Barack Obama visited Sderot this summer and saw the remnants of these rockets, he reacted by saying that if his two daughters were exposed to rocket attacks in their home, he would do everything in his power to stop such attacks. He understands how the terrorists exploit the morality of democracies.

    In a recent incident related to me by the former head of the Israeli air force, Israeli intelligence learned that a family's house in Gaza was being used to manufacture rockets. The Israeli military gave the residents 30 minutes to leave. Instead, the owner called Hamas, which sent mothers carrying babies to the house.

    Hamas knew that Israel would never fire at a home with civilians in it. They also knew that if Israeli authorities did not learn there were civilians in the house and fired on it, Hamas would win a public relations victory by displaying the dead. Israel held its fire. The Hamas rockets that were protected by the human shields were then used against Israeli civilians.

    These despicable tactics -- targeting Israeli civilians while hiding behind Palestinian civilians -- can only work against moral democracies that care deeply about minimizing civilian casualties. They never work against amoral nations such as Russia, whose military has few inhibitions against killing civilians among whom enemy combatants are hiding.

    The claim that Israel has violated the principle of proportionality -- by killing more Hamas terrorists than the number of Israeli civilians killed by Hamas rockets -- is absurd. First, there is no legal equivalence between the deliberate killing of innocent civilians and the deliberate killings of Hamas combatants. Under the laws of war, any number of combatants can be killed to prevent the killing of even one innocent civilian.

    Second, proportionality is not measured by the number of civilians actually killed, but rather by the risk posed. This is illustrated by what happened on Tuesday, when a Hamas rocket hit a kindergarten in Beer Sheva, though no students were there at the time. Under international law, Israel is not required to allow Hamas to play Russian roulette with its children's lives.

    While Israel installs warning systems and builds shelters, Hamas refuses to do so, precisely because it wants to maximize the number of Palestinian civilians inadvertently killed by Israel's military actions. Hamas knows from experience that even a small number of innocent Palestinian civilians killed inadvertently will result in bitter condemnation of Israel by many in the international community.

    Israel understands this as well. It goes to enormous lengths to reduce the number of civilian casualties -- even to the point of foregoing legitimate targets that are too close to civilians.

    Until the world recognizes that Hamas is committing three war crimes -- targeting Israeli civilians, using Palestinian civilians as human shields, and seeking the destruction of a member state of the United Nations -- and that Israel is acting in self-defense and out of military necessity, the conflict will continue.

    Mr. Dershowitz is a law professor at Harvard. His latest book is "The Case Against Israel's Enemies" (Wiley, 2008).
    Source:http://online.wsj.com/article_email/...TgwNTU5Wj.html


    Sell-out January Sayle's blog: http://www.alexeisayle.me/

  2. #2
    friendofisrael
    Guest

    Re: Proportionality

    That's a great quote. Israel's response is totally justified! I'm so glad that Israel finally attacked gaza. Defence of ones citizens should be applauded, and by the way should have happened much sooner.

    I'm totally amazed at the news coverage here in the UK. The anti-Israeli/Jewish bias is shocking! My best sources of info are the Jerusalem Post online or Fox News on my iPhone, who are more balanced. Anyone know any better sources for up to date and accurate info??

    What if someone were to fire rockets at American or British cities?? They would be destroyed instantly, to hell with world opinion! Good to see George Bush supporting Israel, though I'm ashamed at my own PM Gordon Brown's call for a ceasefire. Did we not carpet bomb the hell out of German cities in WW2 to protect our people? How dare Europe & the liberal world call for a ceasefire! We are not surrounded by most of the worlds terrorists and most of the worlds Muslims (yet) It'll be interesting to see what Hussein Obama has to say in a fortnights time!

    May God bless you brave IDF. I pray for you success, your safety and your swift return home.

  3. #3
    Sharona
    Guest

    Re: Proportionality

    Someone directed me to Melanie Phillips at the Spectator. 'Google' that and you should find her blogs. She also writes for the Daily Mail.

    She's quite a toughie and never afraid to speak her mind. Her blog today was a little more encouraging in respect of support. Although that posted tonight is chilling. It says that Hamas is saying it will kill Jewish children around the world in retaliation for the loss of life amongst Palestinian children.

    If such comments are found to be true and make their way into the media, surely that might indicate the less-than-stable mentality of Hamas?

  4. #4
    redcake
    Guest

    Re: Proportionality

    reports are that the IDF has killed 40% of the Hamas force, and that 400 of the reported 500 casualties as of today were combatants.

    what would be proportionate? should the idf dig tunnels and secretly hand rockets over to families in sderot to shoot back? anyone wanting proportional responses is still stuck on trying to wrap their heads around equivalency.

  5. #5
    scattergood
    Guest

    Re: Proportionality

    Quote Originally Posted by redcake View Post
    reports are that the IDF has killed 40% of the Hamas force, and that 400 of the reported 500 casualties as of today were combatants.

    what would be proportionate? should the idf dig tunnels and secretly hand rockets over to families in sderot to shoot back? anyone wanting proportional responses is still stuck on trying to wrap their heads around equivalency.
    Well given that there have been upwards of 6000 rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza into Israel, maybe proportional would be for Israel to randomly fire 6000 artillery shells and mortars into the various cities of Gaza?

    Proportionality is the stupidest argument in war. It rewards forces for having masses of people as opposed to being effective in killing your enemy. I don't think the side that shows up with more forces should win because they can take 'proportional' casualties more than the other.

  6. #6
    kozzol
    Guest

    Re: Proportionality

    And whilst Israel is doing that, maybe we should have let a few of their buses full of people, take a direct hit, just as they blew up ours. The media talk rubbish the same way that the people who they interview do.

  7. #7
    Sharona
    Guest

    Re: Proportionality

    A droll take on proportionality by a British Journalist.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin..._b_155039.html

  8. #8
    Mosche
    Guest

    Re: Proportionality

    Quote Originally Posted by kozzol View Post
    And whilst Israel is doing that, maybe we should have let a few of their buses full of people, take a direct hit, just as they blew up ours. The media talk rubbish the same way that the people who they interview do.
    The big difference is this: when our buses are targeted, Muslims celebrate; when their civilians die, we apologize.

  9. #9
    jeffk
    Guest

    Re: Proportionality

    Anyone know of another source for this information? Did any major news organization publish it?

    In a recent incident related to me by the former head of the Israeli air force, Israeli intelligence learned that a family's house in Gaza was being used to manufacture rockets. The Israeli military gave the residents 30 minutes to leave. Instead, the owner called Hamas, which sent mothers carrying babies to the house.

  10. #10
    redcake
    Guest

    Re: Proportionality

    How could they possibly know they brought babies into the targeted home? If they were close enough to view it, then they should be close enough to video tape it....and not some degraded spycam looking video, but Hi-def color.

  11. #11
    second_coming
    Guest

    Re: Proportionality

    Quote Originally Posted by redcake View Post
    How could they possibly know they brought babies into the targeted home? If they were close enough to view it, then they should be close enough to video tape it....and not some degraded spycam looking video, but Hi-def color.
    I would still have bombed the house. Once the warning is made, that's that.

  12. #12
    Tonto
    Guest

    Re: Proportionality

    The easy answer is to stop the warnings. If you're dumb enough to hang around a munition stockpile while missiles are flying....shame on ya!

  13. #13
    Mosche
    Guest

    Re: Proportionality

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonto View Post
    The easy answer is to stop the warnings. If you're dumb enough to hang around a munition stockpile while missiles are flying....shame on ya!
    Don't bring common sense into this!

  14. #14
    Tonto
    Guest

    Re: Proportionality

    Right. I don't know what I was thinking....musta been a brain fart induced by too much coffee.

  15. #15
    Bheeshma
    Guest

    Re: Proportionality

    IF proportionality was the law then there will be no winners or losers nd all wars would be draws.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •