Ingrid Mattson/ISNA go to Washington.

[andak01]

Once again you show what a selfish sickening person you are and insult all Jews here.

It wasn't intended as an insult. It's a true statistic. If someone gets insulted that we stray away from emotionalism and truthiness to the actual facts, that's their problem.

Mohammad was a terrorist thug and more people have died in the name of Islam than any other ideology.

You're a broken record. So Muhammad (SAW) was a terrorist thug but Moses (SAW), who according to the Torah did much more than Muhammad ever did is not. Explain that to me. How is executing 600 Bani Quraizah men and sparing the women and children the worst thing that ever happened on the planet and killing all of the thousands of Midianites except the virgins something that causes people to put his statue on every law building? How is executing Abu Afak for sedition an act of terrorism, but removing 200 foreskins for a dowry worthy of a flag.

Frankly, I find that these details have little or nothing to do with the respective religions or what they are about. But if you and ShimonG want to live in torture land, I'll trade you Philistine foreskin for foreskin.

If a word you say is true and every one of the 20% of the world's population was working together towards a common goal, we'd have done it already. But the actual fact is, there are many faces to Islam and most of them don't end at the end of a sword.

[Steven]

It wasn't intended as an insult. It's a true statistic. If someone gets insulted that we stray away from emotionalism and truthiness to the actual facts, that's their problem.

Facts are the last thing that you are about.

You're a broken record. So Muhammad (SAW) was a terrorist thug but Moses (SAW), who according to the Torah did much more than Muhammad ever did is not. Explain that to me. How is executing 600 Bani Quraizah men and sparing the women and children the worst thing that ever happened on the planet and killing all of the thousands of Midianites except the virgins something that causes people to put his statue on every law building? How is executing Abu Afak for sedition an act of terrorism, but removing 200 foreskins for a dowry worthy of a flag.

You have been a broken and useless record here for years. TODAY is what counts, distraction not working.

Frankly, I find that these details have little or nothing to do with the respective religions or what they are about. But if you and ShimonG want to live in torture land, I'll trade you Philistine foreskin for foreskin.

If a word you say is true and every one of the 20% of the world's population was working together towards a common goal, we'd have done it already. But the actual fact is, there are many faces to Islam and most of them don't end at the end of a sword.

You are such an Islamic robot that you cannot even get off of your usual meaningless talking points. I never said that it was "all" and it obviously does not have to be all Muslims. Forced conversions are not the main problem, political Islam is.

[andak01]

...but if all those that were killed by the Israelites during Moses life were laid directly at his feet, they would at best only be comparable to all those killed by Muslims during Muhammad's lifetime.

That's simply not true. What do you base that upon? The same accounts that you use to claim how violent Muhammad (SAW) was don't back that up. The Midianites alone were over 10,000 people. All of the battles fought during Muhammad's (SAW) life don't total that if we include both sides. The two largest, Badr and Uhud didn't suffer a combined total of 1000 people on both sides.

[varian]

First to address a misconception that Muhammad was only responsible for the deaths of six hundred Jews. At the time of the compilation of the Qur'an, the followers of Muhammad were still engaging in battles to spread Islam, as some are doing yet today. The Caliphate was as cutthroat as any monarcy in Europe, and as stated below; the Wahhabi sect is reported to have killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims in the preceding century. All these deaths as well as the continuing sectarian violence finds its authority with the actions of Muhammad and in the Qur'an. All these deaths, along with all future deaths caused by adherents of Islam should be laid at the feet of Muhammad. The final chapter isn't finished yet; Muslims have plenty of time to wreak even more havoc and suffering upon the kafirs of the world, as well as their fellow Muslims. Examples of terrorist networking below:

http://www.nationalreview.com/commen...artz063003.asp

" ... Wahhabi control over mosques means control of property, buildings, appointment of imams, training of imams, content of preaching — including faxing of Friday sermons from Riyadh, Saudi Arabia — and of literature distributed in mosques and mosque bookstores, notices on bulletin boards, and organizational solicitation. Similar influence extends to prison and military chaplaincies, Islamic elementary and secondary schools (academies), college campus activity, endowment of academic chairs and programs in Middle East studies, and most notoriously, charities ostensibly helping Muslims abroad, many of which have been linked to or designated as sponsors of terrorism.

The main organizations that have carried out this campaign are the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), which originated in the Muslim Students' Association of the U.S. and Canada (MSA), and CAIR. Support activities have been provided by the American Muslim Council (AMC), the American Muslim Alliance (AMA), the Muslim American Society (MAS), the Graduate School of Islamic and Social Sciences, its sister body the International Institute of Islamic Thought, and a number of related groups that I have called "the Wahhabi lobby." ISNA operates at least 324 mosques in the U.S. through the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT). These groups operate as an interlocking directorate. ...

http://www.milnet.com/afi/AFI-Research-0414.htm

"...
* The Saudi funded Wahhabi sect, part of a worldwide network of Muslim extremists

* The Wahhabi are followers of the teachings of Mohammed Ibn Abdul Wahhab Najdi, a violent dissident in the Muslim religion.

* The Wahhabis killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims leading up to their taking power, more recently led by the founder of the current Saud Dynasty in Saudi Arabia, Ibn Saud in 1925. He also led the desecration and destruction of sacred tombs, graveyards, and mosques in Mecca and Medina.

According to a Fox News 3 report:

* "Saud’s armed supporters, in a frenzy of iconoclasm, first leveled Jannat al-Baqi, the "heavenly orchard" in Medina, where one of the original associates of Muhammad was buried under the prophet’s supervision. Other relatives and thousands of early companions of the prophet were also interred at the site, as were the imams Hassan and Hussein, venerated by Sunni and Shia Muslims. All these graves were wrecked by Saud’s minions, who then looted the treasure at the prophet’s shrine."

* The Wahhabis founded the state of Saudi Arabia in 1932.

* The largest concentration of the Wahhabi sect still remains in Saudi Arabia

* Mosques where the preaching of this sect have sprung up all over the world preaching the Jihad against all infidels, with an emphasis on the Jews and their friends the U.S. and Europe (especially the U.K.).

* This preaching includes training which makes young men and woman ripe for terrorist recruitment. 90% of Islamic terrorists have links to training by Wahhabi sect trainers (both religious figures and non religious figures) as well as training in Wahhabi run mosques.

* The Wahhabi sect preaches that non-Muslims must be enslaved, converted (conquered) or destroyed. There are no other choices.

* Several Wahhabi sect Mosques have been found to store and distribute funds, anti-western propaganda and even weapons to terrorists.

* Several Wahhabi sect Mosques have been the dispatch point where suicide bombers have been armed and sent minutes before they blow themselves up. ...

* Wahhabi sect continues to sanction suicide bombings and is the religious force behind Hezbollah, Hamas, and Al Aqsa Martyr's Brigade suicide bombing campaign in Israel. ...

* Wahhabi sect is the religious sect of those arrested smuggling arms from Iran to Hamas in Israel. ...

Like someone stated before: shut all the organizations down and throw the terrorists in prison. Unfortunately, that's highly unlikely in today's America.

[Steven]

Head of group linked to Hamas to address Obama
Ingrid Mattson, president of Islamic Society of North America, to speak at new US president's inaugural prayer service. Federal prosecutors claim her organization has ties with terror group's fund raising foundation
Yitzhak Benhorin
Published: 01.19.09, 07:17 / Israel News
WASHINGTON – Prof. Ingrid Mattson, who heads a Muslim organization which federal prosecutors in the United States say has ties to a Hamas fund, has been invited to take part in a prayer service which will be held in Washington as part of US President-elect Barack Obama's inauguration, and at his presence.



http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...658404,00.html

[Steven]

I didn't ignore it. That article makes a claim that ISNA is Wahhabbi central without any evidence. Which is it Wahhabbi? Muslim Brotherhood? Hamas?


ISNA, NAIT admit ties to Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/021951.php


You want to compare to today??? OK, Israel in the past three years has killed more Muslim civilians than Muhammad (SAW) and his armies killed PEOPLE in his lifetime.

Andak tries another word game. I did not say "compare" to today. I said people are "concerned" with today. Today is what you constantly try to get the focus off of in regards to Islam by comparing him to others of his time. Of course more people will die today in a war, and that is because of SUPERIOR fighting equipment compared to the days of Mohammad.

[Tonto]

Let's just cut the crap, shall we? Since 9/11, there have been 12,610 jihadi attacks in this world. In the week of Jan. 3-10, there were 39 attacks, 219 dead as a result of those attacks, and 332 severely wounded as a result of those attacks. So tell me again about the religion of peace. I spit on it, and the fake prophet. Islam is detestable and needs to be erradicated. They didn't even make a good start in Gaza. More's the pity.

[andak01]

Like someone stated before: shut all the organizations down and throw the terrorists in prison. Unfortunately, that's highly unlikely in today's America.

Someone? I said it. If you have evidence that those groups are involved in terrorism and not just inuendo, shut them down. I've seen such claims for years at the same time as the President and senators meet with those groups and have their pictures taken. Can we infer that our government also supports terrorism?

[Madeline]

Someone? I said it. If you have evidence that those groups are involved in terrorism and not just inuendo, shut them down. I've seen such claims for years at the same time as the President and senators meet with those groups and have their pictures taken. Can we infer that our government also supports terrorism?

Our newly elected one will...but that is just a hunch, of course.

Andak, what you forget to mention while defending Islam, and compare Muhammeds killing sprees to those of Moses, is the fact that, it happened then, and what WE have learned from it.
We have to continually defend ourselves, while Islam continues to be the culprit.

[varian]

... I've seen such claims for years at the same time as the President and senators meet with those groups and have their pictures taken.

Remember your talking points. The US government is one of the most corrupt in the world, and most politicians will do 'whatever it takes' to remain in power. It's more an indictment of their collective lack of morals, rather than a statement about the character of each group with which they have a picture taken. Each group should be evaluated on an individual basis and not by which political pogue had a picture taken with them.

Can we infer that our government also supports terrorism?

At times, they have done just that.

[andak01]

Remember your talking points. The US government is one of the most corrupt in the world, and most politicians will do 'whatever it takes' to remain in power. It's more an indictment of their collective lack of morals, rather than a statement about the character of each group with which they have a picture taken. Each group should be evaluated on an individual basis and not by which political pogue had a picture taken with them.

Would you apply that logic to this picture?

http://www.psywarrior.com/mufti539.jpg

I have not stated, nor do I believe that the US government is one of the most corrupt in the world. Hardly. Believe me, having travelled in the third world, I know from corrupt! Corrupt is being shaken down by a policeman at gunpoint.

[varian]

This is off topic, but the US Constitution was written to give power to the people. The US government fears that document more that any other threat in the world today, because it has revolution built into its framework. That is why it is being dismantled. The politicians fear the people; and that is how it should be. Many Executive Orders appear to be a direct attack on the Constitution, and many executive orders can nullify any part or all of the Constitution when implemented. Some call that treason. I happen to agree.

The US government started with high ideals that were in effect long before any of my ancestors set foot upon this continent. The leadership of that government has now fallen the farthest, therefore IMO, they have become the most decadent of all in the world. Other governments started in the pit and remain in the pit. 'Change' is much more than a slogan, especially when all the same old miscreants are in positions of power. Sloganeering doesn't bring change, and agendas don't bring effective leadership.

[andak01]

This is off topic, but the US Constitution was written to give power to the people. The US government fears that document more that any other threat in the world today, because it has revolution built into its framework. That is why it is being dismantled.

I agree 100%.

The politicians fear the people; and that is how it should be. Many Executive Orders appear to be a direct attack on the Constitution, and many executive orders can nullify any part or all of the Constitution when implemented. Some call that treason. I happen to agree.

I remember Al Franken stating on the David Letterman show that he felt bad about the fact that Cheney would be the first vice president to be executed for treason. And that was just for how he handled Valerie Plame!

The US government started with high ideals that were in effect long before any of my ancestors set foot upon this continent.

Very high and admirable ideals along with genocidal attitudes towards anyone that interrupted Manifest Destiny.

The leadership of that government has now fallen the farthest, therefore IMO, they have become the most decadent of all in the world. Other governments started in the pit and remain in the pit. 'Change' is much more than a slogan, especially when all the same old miscreants are in positions of power. Sloganeering doesn't bring change, and agendas don't bring effective leadership.

We'll know in a couple of days.

[Tonto]

Varian, take a good look at the difference between a democracy and a Republic. In a Republic, power lies in the hands of the PEOPLE. In a democracy, where the left in this country wants to go, all power is in the hands of an elite (like communism, fascism, oligarchy, dictatorship etc). Comrades Pelosi and Reid have already indicated that the first two amendments to be abrogated will be the 2nd and the 22nd. The 2nd, is the right to bear arms, and the 22nd limits the number of terms for a Prez. Could you imagine a bat-eared Chicago crook in the White House for life? What's next? How about the 1st and 4th? The 4th because the dems will TELL you what you need for happiness to pursue, and the 1st cause you need to keep yer damn mouth shut anyway.
I think I may come back to Arizona and go back to the Rez. Dems can't even set foot there unless we say so.

[varian]

.
... I think I may come back to Arizona and go back to the Rez. ...

Which reservation? My son-in-law is a paramedic on the Pima reservation.