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Thread: Geert Wilders banned from UK

  1. #91
    Sharona
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    How about Will Self?

    I watched him on question time recently, when they were waffling on about selling cigarettes under the counter in order to discourage young people from smoking.

    The politicians were giving forth on their opinion as to whether this is a good idea or not. Will Self - in his extremely dry manner - pointed out that we have kids on drugs, under-age kids drinking alcohol - plus a few other serious issues - which makes the Government's concern about cigarettes under counters a nonsense. He went on to say that they focus on things they know they can achieve quite easily - to a ludicrous extent (hammering smokers because they're easy targets, or fining people for driving at 33mph in a 30mph zone) but do absolutely nothing that requires targeting some real and pressing issues.

    The applause was deafening.

  2. #92
    Steven
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by friendofisrael View Post
    I'd love to see a British 'Wilders' emerge. As has been said earlier the Conservatives are only marginally better than Labour. The BNP seem to be on the rise, and that's a shame. Their gains show concern at the islamification of Britain, but they remain anti-semitic and criminal thugs.

    That sounds like the politics in the USA. There is not much difference between the Democrats and the Republican parties anymore. They both stink.


    We need someone strong, charismatic, and outspoken to say openly what much of the country must be thinking- and run for office. I believe GB is still 'great,' at a grass roots level at least. If we had someone to capture the imagination and enthusiasm of the ordinary people, and ignore political correctness we could make some changes. Why can't we say we have a Muslim problem without being called racist? Where is the modern day Churchill to get us out of this mess? Help!
    Please do not back down when they call you a "racist". That is exactly what they want. Just ask them what race is Islam. Stay positive, it only takes one strong leader to get the ball rolling.

  3. #93
    Sharona
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    I've just read the speech Wilders would have given at the Lords had he been permitted entry. Essentially, he is saying that Islam is less of a religion and more of a political ideology. He does keep harking back to Churchill - I think a psychological point being made here.

    I also read a letter in the Telegraph where the author asks that Saudi authorities be banned from the UK because they are not actually speaking about banning the bible - they've done it.

    Interesting point.

    I have seen so few comments in favour of Wilders ban as to be meaningless. Except amongst the politicians, of course.

    I think we need the debate. We need to clear the air because what smoulders underneath is always dangerous in the end.

  4. #94
    Steven
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharona View Post
    I've just read the speech Wilders would have given at the Lords had he been permitted entry. Essentially, he is saying that Islam is less of a religion and more of a political ideology. He does keep harking back to Churchill - I think a psychological point being made here.

    I also read a letter in the Telegraph where the author asks that Saudi authorities be banned from the UK because they are not actually speaking about banning the bible - they've done it.

    Interesting point.

    I have seen so few comments in favour of Wilders ban as to be meaningless. Except amongst the politicians, of course.

    I think we need the debate. We need to clear the air because what smoulders underneath is always dangerous in the end.
    Exactly, it is more of a political movement than a religion.

    Are the Saudis really talking about trying to get the Bible banned there? If you have a link please post it.

    France does not allow any foreign funding for Mosques (probably all houses of worship).

  5. #95
    Sharona
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    I don't have a link, Steven. It was in a letter I read in the online Daily Telegraph - I can't, therefore, tell you if the claim is valid or not.

    I've been trying to find out a little about Wilders - trying to get to the bottom of his views. I 'Googled' his name and one of the first sites to come up was the Telegraph. I'm interested in the views of the country on this - as opposed to what the politicians say.

    Another point being made on the web is that the Brits do see Ahmed as the root cause of all this. What I hadn't considered - until seeing this point - is that as a Lord, is isn't an elected parliamentarian.

    The Lords are given peerages for services to the UK. They aren't elected by the people.

  6. #96
    kozzol
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    This would have been Geert Wilders speech to the House of Lords if allowed;

    London, Feb. 12, 2009

    Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much.

    Thank you for inviting me. Thank you Lord Pearson and Lady Cox for showing Fitna, and for your gracious invitation. While others look away, you, seem to understand the true tradition of your country, and a flag that still stands for freedom.

    This is no ordinary place. This is not just one of England’s tourist attractions. This is a sacred place. This is the mother of all Parliaments, and I am deeply humbled to speak before you.
    The Houses of Parliament is where Winston Churchill stood firm, and warned – all throughout the 1930’s – for the dangers looming. Most of the time he stood alone.

    In 1982 President Reagan came to the House of Commons, where he did a speech very few people liked. Reagan called upon the West to reject communism and defend freedom. He introduced a phrase: ‘evil empire’. Reagan’s speech stands out as a clarion call to preserve our liberties. I quote: If history teaches anything, it teaches self-delusion in the face of unpleasant facts is folly.

    What Reagan meant is that you cannot run away from history, you cannot escape the dangers of ideologies that are out to destroy you. Denial is no option.

    Communism was indeed left on the ash heap of history, just as Reagan predicted in his speech in the House of Commons. He lived to see the Berlin Wall coming down, just as Churchill witnessed the implosion of national-socialism.

    Today, I come before you to warn of another great threat. It is called Islam. It poses as a religion, but its goals are very worldly: world domination, holy war, sharia law, the end of the separation of church and state, the end of democracy. It is not a religion, it is a political ideology. It demands your respect, but has no respect for you.

    There might be moderate Muslims, but there is no moderate Islam. Islam will never change, because it is build on two rocks that are forever, two fundamental beliefs that will never change, and will never go away. First, there is Quran, Allah’s personal word, uncreated, forever, with orders that need to be fulfilled regardless of place or time. And second, there is al-insal al-kamil, the perfect man, Muhammad the role model, whose deeds are to be imitated by all Muslims. And since Muhammad was a warlord and a conqueror we know what to expect.

    Islam means submission, so there cannot be any mistake about it’s goal. That’s a given. The question is whether the British people, with its glorious past, is longing for that submission.

    We see Islam taking off in the West at an incredible speed. The United Kingdom has seen a rapid growth of the number of Muslims. Over the last ten years, the Muslim population has grown ten times as fast as the rest of society. This has put an enormous pressure on society. Thanks to British politicians who have forgotten about Winston Churchill, the English now have taken the path of least resistance. They give up. They give in.

    Thank you very much for letting me into the country. I received a letter from the Secretary of State for the Home Department, kindly disinviting me. I would threaten community relations, and therefore public security in the UK, the letter stated. For a moment I feared that I would be refused entrance. But I was confident the British government would never sacrifice free speech because of fear of Islam. Britannia rules the waves, and Islam will never rule Britain, so I was confident the Border Agency would let me through. And after all, you have invited stranger creatures than me. Two years ago the House of Commons welcomed Mahmoud Suliman Ahmed Abu Rideh, linked to Al Qaeda. He was invited to Westminster by Lord Ahmed, who met him at Regent’s Park mosque three weeks before. Mr. Rideh, suspected of being a money man for terror groups, was given a SECURITY sticker for his Parliamentary visit.

    Well, if you let in this man, than an elected politician from a fellow EU country surely is welcome here too. By letting me speak today you show that Mr Churchill’s spirit is still very much alive. And you prove that the European Union truly is working; the free movement of persons is still one of the pillars of the European project.

    But there is still much work to be done. Britain seems to have become a country ruled by fear. A country where civil servants cancel Christmas celebrations to please Muslims. A country where Sharia Courts are part of the legal system. A country where Islamic organizations asked to stop the commemoration of the Holocaust. A country where a primary school cancels a Christmas nativity play because it interfered with an Islamic festival. A country where a school removes the words Christmas and Easter from their calendar so as not to offend Muslims. A country where a teacher punishes two students for refusing to pray to Allah as part of their religious education class. A country where elected members of a town council are told not to eat during daylight hours in town hall meetings during the Ramadan. A country that excels in its hatred of Israel, still the only democracy in the Middle-East. A country whose capitol is becoming ‘Londonistan’.

    I would not qualify myself as a free man. Four and a half years ago I lost my freedom. I am under guard permanently, courtesy to those who prefer violence to debate. But for the leftist fan club of islam, that is not enough. They started a legal procedure against me. Three weeks ago the Amsterdam Court of Appeal ordered my criminal prosecution for making ‘Fitna’ and for my views on Islam. I committed what George Orwell called a ‘thought crime’.

    You might have seen my name on Fitna’s credit role, but I am not really responsible for that movie. It was made for me. It was actually produced by Muslim extremists, the Quran and Islam itself. If Fitna is considered ‘hate speech’, then how would the Court qualify the Quran, with all it’s calls for violence, and hatred against women and Jews? Mr. Churchill himself compared the Quran to Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf. Well, I did exactly the same, and that is what they are prosecuting me for.

    I wonder if the UK ever put Mr. Churchill on trial.

    The Court’s decision and the letter I received form the Secretary of State for the Home Department are two major victories for all those who detest freedom of speech. They are doing Islam’s dirty work. Sharia by proxy. The differences between Saudi-Arabia and Jordan on one hand and Holland and Britain are blurring. Europe is now on the fast track of becoming Eurabia. That is apparently the price we have to pay for the project of mass immigration, and the multicultural project.

    Ladies and gentlemen, the dearest of our many freedoms is under attack. In Europe, freedom of speech is no longer a given. What we once considered a natural component of our existence is now something we again have to fight for. That is what is at stake. Whether or not I end up in jail is not the most pressing issue. The question is: Will free speech be put behind bars?

    We have to defend freedom of speech.

    For the generation of my parents the word ‘London’ is synonymous with hope and freedom. When my country was occupied by the national-socialists the BBC offered a daily glimpse of hope, in the darkness of Nazi tyranny. Millions of my country men listened to it, illegally. The words ‘This Is London’ were a symbol for a better world coming soon. If only the British and Canadian and American soldiers were here.

    What will be transmitted forty years from now? Will it still be ‘This Is London’? Or will it be ‘this is Londonistan’? Will it bring us hope, or will it signal the values of Mecca and Medina? Will Britain offer submission or perseverance? Freedom or slavery?

    The choice is ours.

    Ladies and gentlemen,

    We will never apologize for being free. We will never give in. We will never surrender.

    Freedom must prevail, and freedom will prevail.

    Thank you very much.

    Geert Wilders MP
    Chairman, Party for Freedom (PVV)
    The Netherlands

  7. #97
    Aviva
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharona View Post
    How about Will Self?
    I agree Will Self is a clever man but he may not be good for the Jews, seeing as although he's halachically Jewish, he's quite ambivalent towards the community. I would expect him to behave in an Alexei Sayle manner, given half the chance.

    Thanks for Wilders speech, Kozzol. He certainly makes points that should at least be openly addressed, but the cowardly government will just see those points as "incitement".

  8. #98
    codedvirus
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven View Post
    Are the Saudis really talking about trying to get the Bible banned there? If you have a link please post it.
    British stewardess challenges airline's Bible ban
    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53571

    Stewardess banned from carrying Bible
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ing-Bible.html

    Washington Times - Saudi jailed for discussing the Bible
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-015138-3548r/

    English Airline Bans Bible on Saudi Arabia Flight
    http://www.christiantoday.com/articl...light/8917.htm

  9. #99
    Sharona
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    When you look at most of the online comments, it would appear that the support for Wilders outweighs the criticism.

    There are many calls for people to unite against the intelligentsia who are destroying the UK. The question is....how?

    When the National Front were making waves, Margaret Thatcher said that the way to defeat them was through the ballot box. But who have we got now that is worth a vote? Cameron? For me, 'Call me Dave' has just shown his true colours by making the Tory official line 'no comment' in respect of the Wilders case. Spineless.

    Perhaps they should have held fast to Michael Howard.

  10. #100
    Aviva
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharona View Post
    There are many calls for people to unite against the intelligentsia who are destroying the UK. The question is....how?
    Who are this intelligentsia? Who makes these policies? Where does the process begin? It's taken over everything - education, local government, social policy. I can't remember what life used to be like without this wet political correctness absolutely everywhere. Would a Conservative government change things all that much?

    Perhaps they should have held fast to Michael Howard.
    I think not. He's a Jew and that fact was already exploited by Labour in the election he lost, with those flying pigs posters. In this case, he would be seen very much as an enemy of Islam. I think David Cameron can muster more support but I also wish the Conservatives had a really decent leader; I would vote for them. I certainly voted Boris in as Mayor.

  11. #101
    Sharona
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    The 'Intelligentsia' are the advisors - for the most part, hidden.

    So I wonder what is the answer if it isn't through the ballot box? Cameron isn't really appealing to the 'grass roots' Conservatives but to potential new voters. He's moved the party to the centre...no, to the left.....hang on, perhaps we're moving right now. Who the hell knows where he's going - he never says.

  12. #102
    Steven
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharona View Post
    When you look at most of the online comments, it would appear that the support for Wilders outweighs the criticism.


    Without question.

    There are many calls for people to unite against the intelligentsia who are destroying the UK. The question is....how?

    It is a start.

    When the National Front were making waves, Margaret Thatcher said that the way to defeat them was through the ballot box. But who have we got now that is worth a vote? Cameron? For me, 'Call me Dave' has just shown his true colours by making the Tory official line 'no comment' in respect of the Wilders case. Spineless.

    That is disappointing. Staying on the fence shows weakness.

    Perhaps they should have held fast to Michael Howard.
    Hang in there mate. Any calls for Ahmed to step down?

  13. #103
    Sharona
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    They'll probably promote him

    Ahmed is a Lord - a life peer and not an elected member of Parliament. Peers still have party allegiances - Ahmed's is Labour - but I don't think the party itself will have much jurisdiction over him; unless it's to withdraw his membership. And frankly, I think I've got more chance of being bitten on the bum by a cabbage than of Labour kicking Ahmed out.

    I have no idea how the system goes about taking such a title away. Can you imagine the outcry if the suggestion was bandied about?

    It is hugely disappointing that Cameron's lot kept quiet. Judging by the pro-Wilders response, I'll bet they're kicking themselves. Or their supporters will be doing something similar. Hopefully.

    It is ludicrous when an unelected member of Parliament has the ability to prevent an elected EU member from entering the country. Particularly if he issues threats of civil unrest.

  14. #104
    Sharona
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    A very valid comment from the Spectator blog:

    "..As for your claim that "to pretend that they [Moslem extremists] pose a comparable danger to that we faced from Nazism or, for that matter, communism is absurd": let's compare London of, say, 1941 (at the height of the threat of Nazi invasion), or of the height of the Cold War, with today. Armed police, CCTV's everywhere, wide powers of stop-and-search, anti-terrorist devices - these were never needed in the past, not during two World Wars, not for forty years of the Cold War, not even to counter the threats of the IRA in the late 1960s and the early 1970s, when "the troubles" were at their all-time high.."

    That's true enough. It shows the extent to which this particular brand of terrorism has affected life in the UK. And we're restricted/brainwashed by political correctness if we speak this truth or attempt to address the root cause. Crazy.

  15. #105
    Steven
    Guest

    Re: Geert Wilders banned from UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharona View Post
    They'll probably promote him

    Ahmed is a Lord - a life peer and not an elected member of Parliament. Peers still have party allegiances - Ahmed's is Labour - but I don't think the party itself will have much jurisdiction over him; unless it's to withdraw his membership. And frankly, I think I've got more chance of being bitten on the bum by a cabbage than of Labour kicking Ahmed out.

    OK forget my idea, Labour is useless.


    I have no idea how the system goes about taking such a title away. Can you imagine the outcry if the suggestion was bandied about?

    If I move there, how long will it take to get citizenship? I will glady get the ball rolling.

    It is hugely disappointing that Cameron's lot kept quiet. Judging by the pro-Wilders response, I'll bet they're kicking themselves. Or their supporters will be doing something similar. Hopefully.

    It is ludicrous when an unelected member of Parliament has the ability to prevent an elected EU member from entering the country. Particularly if he issues threats of civil unrest.

    Because of politically correctness, the world is upside down. Muslims like Ahmed know full well how to use our system against us.

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