There were bankers and businesses that could have refused to deal with that government. At minimum that would have made the operation less efficient.
Home | There were bankers and businesses that could have refused to deal with that government. At minimum that would have made the operation less efficient.
Posted by andak01:
There were bankers and businesses that could have refused to deal with that government. At minimum that would have made the operation less efficient.
Are you accusing American Jewish bankers and businesses of financing Hitler?
Like I said - most of the people have no idea what they are talking about. Especially when it comes to such specifics as economics of WWII - a subject of which most people refer to if they are looking for some sort of conspiracy.
Dude - you don't know much about this subject and I don't recommend you go into this.
Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.
No! Please don't insert words. Please, please don't pretend that I made some big statement about conspiracies. I didn't.Originally Posted by Mil
I do know that IBM supplies machines to Auschwitz and that Henry Ford received an award from the Nazi government.Dude - you don't know much about this subject and I don't recommend you go into this.
Thanks for the information and input.
My grandfathers both had died long before I was born. Both of my grandmothers spoke very, very little English. My mother told me that things were so "wonderful" in the old country that no one wanted to discuss it. The main jist of things were that a teenaged daughter was murdered and my maternal great-grandparents took the remaining six kids, packed up and left for the USA, from Minsk, Belarus.
My other two grandparents took their first child and left Bialystock (not sure if it was Poland or Russia at the time actually)....all of this occurring around the turn of the 1900's. Again, things were so "good" that no one talked about it.
So, personally I have to understand that things have to be pretty bad when a family, pulls themselves up, lock, stock and barrel and moves to the other side of the world. Things, indeed, must have been very "good".
Like I have said, unfortunately, there leaves a vacuum in my personal history, since no one wanted to talk about whatever their experiences were. I have only my imagination and information that is not on a more personal level to go by.
I am thankful that those who made it to the USA did so and had the internal fortitude and judgement to know when it was time to go.
Posted by andak01:
No! Please don't insert words. Please, please don't pretend that I made some big statement about conspiracies. I didn't.
The topic of this thread is "What could have American Jews have done." You stated "There were bankers and businesses that could have refused to deal with that government. At minimum that would have made the operation less efficient.
What is that supposed to mean?
I do know that IBM supplies machines to Auschwitz and that Henry Ford received an award from the Nazi government.
Germany bought some equipment from IBM, which the Nazis later used for keeping track Jews, and Ford had subsidiaries in Germany (for example - Opel). However, this was all very small potatoes. United States was VERY weary of Germany and of Hitler in particular as lots of people lost lots of money on Germany especially when Hitler decided to default on all American loans in the early 1930s. Trade between the United States and Germany was very tiny especially compared to the size of the two economies (USA #1 and Germany #2). In fact Germany's largest trading partner all the way up to the beginning of the war was England.
Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.
I am thankful that those who made it to the USA did so and had the internal fortitude and judgement to know when it was time to go.
You got to pray to God 24/7 that your grandparents were smart enough and had the will to leave that idiotic place.
In fact if I were you I would buy a camcorder and record your parents stories so they can tell you both about themselves and your grandparents. All my grandparents have told their stories and these are so fascinating, especially about the war!!!! The stuff you find out....
My grand-dad fought in the Red Army during the war. The war ended in Vienna for him, in the rank of a major, where he served for the next three years with the Soviet occupation forces. While in Vienna the Hagannah found him and tried to recruit my grand-dad for the then emerging Israeli army promising a promotion to a rank of a colonel. Israelis at the time were searching all through Europe for Jewish WWII veterans. Many, who had no-where to return or really felt strongly after what they have witnessed joined the IDF. On the Soviet side it was a lot harder to do as it might get interpreted as "desertion and betrayal of the mother-land" which automatically meant the family would suffer; and my grand-dad had no illusions on the matter. Plus he really wanted to go home. He did not want to fight another war. My grand-dad, however, told me he knew non-Jewish Red Army veterans who willingly went to fight for the then emerging Jewish state to further avenge the atrocities they saw during the war.
Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.
IBM and the Holocaust by Edwin Black is a fascinating and stomach churning and turning read.......
I recall reading, that before Pearl Harbor, there was a rally in New York's Madison Square Garden of Jews for Jews in Europe. I think that American Jews knew that something especially hellacious, even for the times and place, was going on in Europe......but somehow the efforts on behalf of the Jews of Europe were either blocked or otherwise rendered discontinued......
My mother's father left Europe because 1) he was going to be drafted into the Russian Army and Jews got out of the Army feet first and 2) he was displeased with a shiduach that was being made for him. Not sure which story is the truth and which story isn't.
Both of my father's parents left Europe when there eldest son was an infant. My father is deceased also, may he rest in peace. He was the youngest of six children. All of them are dead, now.
Both my parents were "change of life babies", so there was a big age gap between them and their siblings....the only one still alive is my 80 something mother. She was the youngest and only daughter.....her brothers were 19 and 11 years old when she was born in 1926!!
Posted by Shulamith:
IBM and the Holocaust by Edwin Black is a fascinating and stomach churning and turning read.......
I don't take these books with any grain of salt. There was trade but it was all very small potatoes. If you want good books on German economics I can recommend good literature.
I recall reading, that before Pearl Harbor, there was a rally in New York's Madison Square Garden of Jews for Jews in Europe. I think that American Jews knew that something especially hellacious, even for the times and place, was going on in Europe......but somehow the efforts on behalf of the Jews of Europe were either blocked or otherwise rendered discontinued......
Of course people knew bad stuff was happening. And of course many knew that something not very good was happening to the Jews specifically especially judging by the many people who were trying to get out of Europe. This was no secret. What was not known was the extent of the tragedy to come. Everyone knew how Nazis related to the Jews.... Recently on the biography channel they had a thing on Bugsy Siegal. In his younger years, in late 20s and early 30s, Bugsy and his gang were trashing American Nazi gatherings.
There were many demonstrations by American Jews and lots of government lobbying was done by Jewish community representatives.
Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.
IBM and the Holocaust tells exactly how the Nazi's were able to be so very good at hunting Jews and all the help that the IBM Hollerith machine, an early form of a punch card computer used to track Jews down and even keep a record of them in at least one concentration camp........the Hollerith machine made the work of the Nazi's even more efficient then they already were, in tracking down Jews who were even one sixteenth Jewish!
By shulamith:
IBM and the Holocaust tells exactly how the Nazi's were able to be so very good at hunting Jews and all the help that the IBM Hollerith machine, an early form of a punch card computer used to track Jews down and even keep a record of them in at least one concentration camp........the Hollerith machine made the work of the Nazi's even more efficient then they already were, in tracking down Jews who were even one sixteenth Jewish!
The Nazi could have done this without the IBM early punch card computer..... there were a lot more complex things that Nazis did without computers, for example making world first jet fighters or coordinating the movement of over 4,500,000 troops in the invasion of Russia. Tracking 1/16th of a Jew was not much of an issue.... even without the means of some wander toy from America.
Anyways IBM had nothing to do with how its equipment got used.
Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.
Au contraire, IBM knew exactly what the Nazi's were using their computers for.....but business is business...especially after the stock market crash of 1929 and Jews are expendible, eh?
Au contraire, IBM knew exactly what the Nazi's were using their computers for.....but business is business...especially after the stock market crash of 1929 and Jews are expendible, eh?
A what? In 1929? I did not read the book you mentioned but in 1929 Hitler was still not in power.
Look, all these conspiracies of how Nazi Germany became Nazi Germany have very little to do with reality. By the time WWII happened Germany was the #2 economy in the world!!!! Not very different from the world of today - Germany happens to be #3. It was very technologically advanced nation, and still is, which could have figured out without IBM the 1/1000 of a Jew.
On the other hand I doubt that IBM sold Germans some electronic equipment to specifically count Jews. By the way when did this sale take place exactly?
Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.
http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/
Specifically, 1933, right after Shitler came into power.
I'm not entirely sure about rallied in support of Jews, but there was a rally in support of the Nazi party at MSG. That is an absolute fact. There were also pro-Nazi marches in Long Island,
IBM didn't just build a random piece of machinery that happened to fall into devious hands. In those days a government contracted number machine would arrive custom made, with an engineer. We're not talking about a pocket calculator. That, and there is no account of IBM worrying about their reputation and denouncing the use of their product.
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