An ADMISSION by Arab Journalist that Palestinian Authority distorts truth in media

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by freethepeeps
What is the difference between the IDFs actions and terrorism?

I'm all ears.

Actually, this confusion is very typical of so many Arabs.

Many Arabs, like freethepeeps, in his own words, cannot accept a legitimate self-defense army that is reacting to Arab and Islamic massacres.

Instead, people like him accuse the U.S. of terrorism when battling al Qaeda, and they accuse Israel of terrorism when battling Arafat's murderous minions.

In fact, all civilized countries which are under the constant threat of Islamic terrorism are, in the eyes of many Arabs, just terrorist nations, daring to resist being slaughtered by Arabs.

Amazingly, the only time that Arabs like freethepeeps do not see any terrorism whatsoever, is when Palestinians machine-gun Jewish infants in their beds. That, to so many Arabs, is the hallmark of the legitimate Islamic "freedom fighter," in his "holy" struggle for an infidel-free world.

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by MGB8


And, even though you say you are "grown up," just by using that phrase you prove that you are not.

You were the one that brought "grow up" into the debate. But really, I'm a big boy now, and I can handle the insults.

I'll read the threads you mention, but not tonight eh. I'm off to party!!

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by NewsGuy


Actually, this confusion is very typical of so many Arabs.

Many Arabs, like freethepeeps, in his own words, cannot accept a legitimate self-defense army that is reacting to Arab and Islamic massacres.

Instead, people like him accuse the U.S. of terrorism when battling al Qaeda, and they accuse Israel of terrorism when battling Arafat's murderous minions.

In fact, all civilized countries which are under the constant threat of Islamic terrorism are, in the eyes of many Arabs, just terrorist nations, daring to resist being slaughtered by Arabs.

Amazingly, the only time that Arabs like freethepeeps do not see any terrorism whatsoever, is when Palestinians machine-gun Jewish infants in their beds. That, to so many Arabs, is the hallmark of the legitimate Islamic "freedom fighter," in his "holy" struggle for an infidel-free world.

Blimey, 2 days here and I've been promoted to Arab status already!

Yup, I could tell it was "legitimate self defence" every time those big soldiers shot at little children! Fearing for their own lives they were, poor loves!

I guess we just don't get to resolve this one, eh. Cos you aint even begun to convince me!

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by freethepeeps
Yup, I could tell it was "legitimate self defence" every time those big soldiers shot at little children! Fearing for their own lives they were, poor loves!

I guess we just don't get to resolve this one, eh. Cos you aint even begun to convince me!

Maybe that’s cos I 'aint even begun to care at all about convincing you. I'm not a child psychologist.

I am much more interested in communicating to the rest of our readership. You just happen to supply me with a convenient platform to do so.

As for soldiers shooting at children, that, of course, is a standard Arab lie, right out of the "when all else fails" lies and propaganda manual of the likes of Mullah Omar, Saddam Hussein and Yasser Arafat.

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by NewsGuy


Maybe that’s cos I 'aint even begun to care at all about convincing you. I'm not a child psychologist.

I am much more interested in communicating to the rest of our readership. You just happen to supply me with a convenient platform to do so.

As for soldiers shooting at children, that, of course, is a standard Arab lie, right out of the "when all else fails" lies and propaganda manual of the likes of Mullah Omar, Saddam Hussein and Yasser Arafat.

With my own eyes NewsGuy, with my very own eyes!

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by freethepeeps
With my own eyes NewsGuy, with my very own eyes!

Wow, that's amazing, freethepeeps! You saw that??? Better hurry up and call CNN right away to let them know about your never-before-heard-of sighting.

btw - how's your vision, freethepeeps? How many fingers am I holding up?

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by NewsGuy


Wow, that's amazing, freethepeeps! You saw that??? Better hurry up and call CNN right away to let them know about your never-before-heard-of sighting.

btw - how's your vision, freethepeeps? How many fingers am I holding up?

Oooh, I think you'll find that CNN are well aware of the situation in Palestine NewsGuy. Oh yes indeedy.

It is brutal, it is harsh and it is nasty.

And I'm glad you find me a "convenient platform" for the rest of your readership - cos you surely don't think I come here out of admiration for the ugliness that is contained in so many of the posts, do you?

I think it needs challenging, and I think that the readership benefits from the challenges as well. Once it's out there, on the screen, they get to read it and decide for themselves.

Now, as it goes I am not an Arab. I am not a follower of Islam. And I am not a propaganda tool for the Palestinians.

I am instead a quite human person, who cares deeply about oppression and about challenging the discourse of domination that you promote out of your "love for Israel", and I am one of many Internationals who has been to Palestine to see it for themselves, and to make their own minds up.

And seeing Big Israeli soldiers attempt to terrorise small boys with tanks and machine guns did not impress me. Neither did seeing the kids in hospital afterwards. Neither did soldiers shooting at men coming out of prayer, or using guns to frighten them away from prayer. Nor to see them shooting children to frighten them from going to school.

But hey, that isn't what you like to hear, is it! So, I'll do it for you:

Everybody, NewsGuy says that any independent eyewitness who says that they saw Israeli soldiers terrorising the people of Palestine with their guns, tanks, APCs, curfews and helicopters is in fact an Arab who is spreading blatant propaganda.

Aren't I nice to you old chap!

[Mediocrates]

When the Israelis armed the PA when they were allowed back into Yesha it was done with the somewhat tacit understanding that as an opaque society which is largely unaccountable to no one, least of all 'world opinion', that they would be able to hold up their end of the bargain by ruthlessly eliminating the terrorist threat through whatever expedient and dark ways that came handy to them.

And in many ways they have been successful at that - but not in the ways expected. What happened is Arafat used that opacity to consolidate his own power by disappearing his own people and maintaining a reign of terror over the Palestinians. Is it any wonder that in 9 years there is no opposition, no civil rights movement, no succession plan, no recognizable government institutions and no progress?

It's one of the benefits of running a dictatorship - you can hide or expose any information you like. You are free. So while the IDF is the LAPD of the world where everyone follows them around a-la Rodney King with a videocam, there is actually almost nothing that you know about what the PA does and how it does it. We know of virtually nothing. Now on several levels this works to their advantage:

1 - hide the truth, hide bodies, hide the money
2 - operate secretly in plain site
3 - play power politics internally
4 - portray yourself as innocent (nuthin goin on here, hoss)

So while there are occurences where the IDF may have exercised excessive force (you say 100.00% of the time, I say it's somewhat less). What you know, to some extent is what we know - that's the price you pay tactically for operating in a transparent society.

If on the other hand you dream that not seeing something means that nothing is happening, I have some mass graves in Bosnia you can check out. That is the real cost of opacity. And if truth be told - it's the story of all tyrants running 'black' countries. In every case a mass grave or two is going to show up. It's inevitable - the world will eventually find Arafat's 'Baba Yar'.

[freethepeeps]

Mediocrates

I have no doubt that Arafat has done many bad things. I have no hesitation in condemning the brutality and corruption that was rife in the PA "government".

But it is also the case that Arafat has had to work closely with the Israelis, and that much of the brutality stems from attempts to do their bidding in order to stop what you call "terror" and I call "resistance".

Likewise, I have no doubt that the PA manipulates the media. Same as Israel does. Same as most people do for that matter.

As far as I could tell, prior to the sige at Ramallh, Arafat was no longer widely loved or accepted by the Palestinians. Unfortunately, the siege has served to bolster his popularity. One thing that all Palestinians can empathise with, is victims of the oppression. They live with it day by day, they see it, smell it and taste it, and can never forget it.

And I absolutely disagree with your "transparent" society - the grilling I had at Ben Gurion airport, both coming in and going out, puts paid to that notion.

And BTW, the second question I was asked at Ben Gurion:

Are you Jewish?

[Justicator]

And I absolutely disagree with your "transparent" society - the grilling I had at Ben Gurion airport, both coming in and going out, puts paid to that notion.

And BTW, the second question I was asked at Ben Gurion:

Are you Jewish?


Your upset that the airline actually speaks to passengers using thier service . It's a shame a society has to go to such great lenghts due to psychopaths but none the less what's a few questions if you have nothing to hide ?

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by Justicator
And I absolutely disagree with your "transparent" society - the grilling I had at Ben Gurion airport, both coming in and going out, puts paid to that notion.

And BTW, the second question I was asked at Ben Gurion:

Are you Jewish?


Your upset that the airline actually speaks to passengers using thier service . It's a shame a society has to go to such great lenghts due to psychopaths but none the less what's a few questions if you have nothing to hide ?

Well, of course, if it was a truly transparent society, I would have nothing to hide.

Forewarned that Internationals who have admitted that they are entering the country to go to the occupied territories don't make it in, I had no option but to insist that I was a tourist, intending to go to the beach.

And it certainly wasn't the airline that was grilling me. It was Israeli officials. Still at least I didn't have my arse investigated this time eh!

[Justicator]

Forewarned that Internationals who have admitted that they are entering the country to go to the occupied territories don't make it in,

Makes sense to me not to increase the terrorist masses by letting more in .

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by Justicator
Forewarned that Internationals who have admitted that they are entering the country to go to the occupied territories don't make it in,

Makes sense to me not to increase the terrorist masses by letting more in .

Blimey, it's strike it lucky day on these boards. An arab and a terrorist, and we're only on day 2

I seem to remember that it was you that made the point about transparency originally, no?

And perhaps you could point out how exactly I terrorise people, as I would like to stop doing so immediately.

I really don't want a war with America and Israel, and I have no WMDs anyway.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by freethepeeps
Oooh, I think you'll find that CNN are well aware of the situation in Palestine NewsGuy. Oh yes indeedy.

But, indeedy doo, no credible news agency has EVER reported any such thing as we heard from you on your special installment of Lie-Witness news. I find it fascinating that with thousands of reporters from every news agency in the world, only you report seeing things unseen by anyone else. But, I'll get to that in a moment.

Now, as it goes I am not an Arab. I am not a follower of Islam. And I am not a propaganda tool for the Palestinians. I am instead a quite human person, who cares deeply about oppression...

You make a good point, that I should have written "lies by Arabs and other terrorism apologists," to include you. It was an oversight on my part.

As for not being a propaganda tool, take a good look in the mirror and think about that statement. You will find that you are sadly mistaken. You may think that you are some humanitarian or some altruist, but in reality, like I said earlier, you have shown utter disdain for the life of innocent Jewish lives taken by Palestinian terrorists. Is that really what you stand for, and do you really think that you have not become a propaganda tool? Maybe when you get to be a grownup, you'll see things differently.

And seeing Big Israeli soldiers attempt to terrorise small boys with tanks and machine guns did not impress me.

ok, good... Thank you for bringing up this outrageous lie for all to see. So, first, let's agree that there are a few different types of lies:

1. The typical Arab lies of simply inventing falsehoods and repeating them often enough to make other gullible Arabs and their apologists parrot those lies and spread them further. These are typically complete fabrications and fantasies that would make Arab story-teller Scheherazade’s Tales of 1001 Arabian Nights pale in comparison with such fiction.

2. The more subtle Arab lies of omission. In this scenario, the Arabs or their apologists use a technique of distortion to dupe their unsuspecting audience by using some known facts mixed with fiction, and -- most importantly -- leaving out important details which would expose the lie if revealed. This is the type of lie told here by freethepeeps.

So, before going much further, freethepeeps, is there anything else you'd like to tell us about your "observations?" Anything you just so happened to have left out that might be pertinent to honest discussion? Like, for example, what the Palestinian mobs were doing before being confronted by the Israeli soldiers? Because, we happen to have news photos of such events that tell a completely different story than yours.

For example, we have photos of Arab mobs trying to murder 18-year-old Israeli soldiers with bricks, fire-bombs, hang grenades, rifles. I can tell you that if I were an IDF soldier under orders to shoot only if my life were directly threatened (as is the fact hidden by Arabs and their apologists), and there was a mob of a Palestinian enemies trying to murder me, I sure as heck would shoot back to survive.

It wouldn't much matter to me if the Palestinians trying to murder me were just leaving their Friday afternoon anti-Semitic incitement session at their local mosque, or if they were trying to murder me on their way to Islamic Madrase school. I would shoot back in self-defense, no matter what some teenaged pseudo-humanitarian Euro kid thought of me. And you know what, kiddo? I would be doing the right thing.

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by NewsGuy

But, indeedy doo, no credible news agency has EVER reported any such thing as we heard from you on your special installment of Lie-Witness news. I find it fascinating that with thousands of reporters from every news agency in the world, only you report seeing things unseen by anyone else. But, I'll get to that in a moment.

This has something to do with it.
And here's one story that did get reported

You make a good point, that I should have written "lies by Arabs and other terrorism apologists," to include you. It was an oversight on my part.

As for not being a propaganda tool, take a good look in the mirror and think about that statement. You will find that you are sadly mistaken. You may think that you are some humanitarian or some altruist, but in reality, like I said earlier, you have shown utter disdain for the life of innocent Jewish lives taken by Palestinian terrorists. Is that really what you stand for, and do you really think that you have not become a propaganda tool? Maybe when you get to be a grownup, you'll see things differently.

I repeat, I am grown up, a graduate, a father and probably older than you. I have worked in a responsible job for a number of years. I am currently a MA student. I also repeat - I am totally opposed to the targetting of all civilian lives, including Israelis. However, there is a real resource imbalance here, and I am still looking for suggestions as to how Palestinians might resist the occupation in an effective and acceptable way.

ok, good... Thank you for bringing up this outrageous lie for all to see. So, first, let's agree that there are a few different types of lies:

1. The typical Arab lies of simply inventing falsehoods and repeating them often enough to make other gullible Arabs and their apologists parrot those lies and spread them further. These are typically complete fabrications and fantasies that would make Arab story-teller Scheherazade’s Tales of 1001 Arabian Nights pale in comparison with such fiction.

2. The more subtle Arab lies of omission. In this scenario, the Arabs or their apologists use a technique of distortion to dupe their unsuspecting audience by using some known facts mixed with fiction, and -- most importantly -- leaving out important details which would expose the lie if revealed. This is the type of lie told here by freethepeeps.

So, before going much further, freethepeeps, is there anything else you'd like to tell us about your "observations?" Anything you just so happened to have left out that might be pertinent to honest discussion? Like, for example, what the Palestinian mobs were doing before being confronted by the Israeli soldiers? Because, we happen to have news photos of such events that tell a completely different story than yours.

Hey, some of the times the kids had been throwing stones. Other times they had not. Now stones don't hurt tanks! And indeed I had the misfortune of being on the receiving end of some of them. Fortunately for you, I'm still very much around to be used as a "convenient platform".

For example, we have photos of Arab mobs trying to murder 18-year-old Israeli soldiers with bricks, fire-bombs, hang grenades, rifles. I can tell you that if I were an IDF soldier under orders to shoot only if my life were directly threatened (as is the fact hidden by Arabs and their apologists), and there was a mob of a Palestinian enemies trying to murder me, I sure as heck would shoot back to survive.

No bricks, fire bombs, hang grenades or rifles with the kids. Soldiers had plenty though! And I was there, no lives were at risk, except for the kids of course.

It wouldn't much matter to me if the Palestinians trying to murder me were just leaving their Friday afternoon anti-Semitic incitement session at their local mosque, or if they were trying to murder me on their way to Islamic Madrase school. I would shoot back in self-defense, no matter what some teenaged pseudo-humanitarian Euro kid thought of me. And you know what, kiddo? I would be doing the right thing.

Again, no lives were at risk. And I'm touched that you think I'm teenaged, but it just aint so! But of course, them soldiers aint gonna file reports saying "we bagged us a few for the hellavit. They're going to say that they were at risk. Something I never did find out, do the IDF do ammunition audits? Cos there's a helluva lot of bullets lying around on the streets on Nablus. And most of them are centred round the spots where the soldiers shoot them from. And I think a call to prayer is a call to prayer really. We wouldn't want to see Israel prohibiting people from practising religion now, would we? And if it wasn't for the curfew, the kids would be in school and occupied a lot more of the time, no? So, if you fired on kids in the circumstances I witnessed, you would definitely not be right!