How can you deny SLAs?

[orangeblossom]

While I am ouwet...I know SLAs....

Sad situation, because they fought for Israel, but have to live without country or their children and wives for years, spread out.

Bare in mind...if they go to Lebanon, they are tried as traitors from Hezbollah laws. If they go to Israel, you kick them back. And yet, these were men who left their homes to what....fight for ISrael, and they even speak Hebrew?

I was standing in my kitchen the other day, and an old SLA brought me some pics. There I saw a wife, and three kids. Ages 13, 11, and 10.

I asked him, when was the last time you saw them? He stated, "9 years ago."

I am determined to FIND A WAY to get his FAMILY here in USA! MY NEW CAUSE!

It is SLACK...that Israel, from what I hear....won't even rent an APARTMENT to SLA!

[Yala]

I thought the SLA were fighting for control of Southern Lebanon, not Israel. If they wanted to fight for Israel they should've joined the IDF, but as I said they were fighting for Lebanon, with the help of the IDF.

In any case, hundreds of SLA and their families live in Israel b/c they are scared their fellow Lebanese, the Hezballah, will kill them, they are not just scared of trials...

I'm sorry for your friend, but Israel can't be the guardian of the entire Middle East. You people expect too much from such a small country.

What does ouwet mean by the way?

[dayag]

...What does ouwet mean by the way?

If I am not mistaken, he is referring to a Christian Lebanese group known as Al-Ouwet Al-Lubnaniyya (or Al-Quwat Al Lubnaniyya) "Lebanese Forces" in English.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Forces

[bararallu]

Most SLA were 90% secular Shia. I think if they were Maronite or Druze then we would probably absorb all of them without issue.We have in fact done so. The upper echelons were many Maronites, most are Israeli or French via Israel at this point. Brining in Shia, brings in double agents from Iran, and if not right now, in a generation. If there was no Mullah Iran then there would also be no problem. There really is no love lost between even religious Arab Shia and the Paleos, whether Lebanon or Iraq. But Iran is in a position to exploit things.

It's a shame of what happened to them, first killed by the PLO then by their own radicalized brothers. But fundamentally this is not an Israeli story. I think we made a mistake not backing to the full all the parties fighting Syria at the time. But it wasn't primarily an Israeli fault- the SLA & phalange, Auon, the LF, Druze etc were fractured, often attacking each other (the little war between LF vs Druze for instance). What can we do in this environment. And there is also the US and it's preferences. When Reagan's troops departed a lot of good will departed as well.

Now they are getting their act together, but is it too late?

[orangeblossom]

[sorry, been busy startin next restaurant, Veitnam guy left it smelly and ooooffff, I can't describe it. I ]

Anyhoo, this SLA is maronite. Found out, he lives with an Israeli as a roomate. It is all paperwork. PAPERWORK. But, while again, we are ouwet, there were muslims ouwet as well. To call double agent...I think it rather foul, because those are smelled out quickly. EVEN IF a shia was SLA...they were few in numbers; and those guys fought.

While I can't say much more on this matter...I am still investigating, I do find it slack.

You know...when I feel I have problem..and meet a man who hasn't seen his own son since birth...see the pic of that boy. Dmaan...he holds that pic with pride; never to touch his cheek! It is things like this I find inhumane.

I am a mother...I would have no clue what it would be like - but pain, not to see my own kids grow up before me.

And yet he works, smiles, and goes on somehow.

Like I stated...these minorities are my new cause. ANd I am reaserching on how to help them.

People are people. Those people have feelings. It is the leaders like Hasouna...who make them our enemy....kill the hasouna thoughts...you will kill leaders like Hasouna.

[orangeblossom]

LF and Druze are not the same religion. They were not on the same side. Yes....we would attack each other eventually. But, that was war.

Remember, the war was Christian vs. Muslim.

[orangeblossom]

SLA use to be a lot of Shia...fact is...that SLA changed to Maronite. It became 99% maronite. The Shia relocated to Hezbollah. That was especially during war. So, 99% SLA who come to you Maronite, were the real SLA.

[bararallu]

OB, you are really behind the times. A lot of the top brass were Christian, but in the end, when Barak pulled out, the SLA was at least 80% Shia. I'd say more like 90% from personal experience. About 10% was Maronite or (even less) other Christian, and most of those went to France and some middle ranking ones (who dint have the kesev for protection or payoff) stayed in Israel.

There were many cases, both public and more discrete, where the SLA fighter gave info to the hezzies and especially to Amal. That is why I would never trust one behind me, where I would in fact trust a LFer for instance or a Phalange in years past. Because our interest coincide pretty much completely but the secular Shia can be manipulated, and have been manipulated. When Iran falls this will fix itself. These guys will gut the HA from within.

[orangeblossom]

Let me be brief....SLA are maronite. Like to see your dates. Another propaganda here.

Bottom line...these ppl gave their lives to ISRAEL!

Wonder...what if the christian world woke up one day and realize Lebaon is christian State?

hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Maybe I should direct my intel online there?

Who ever sacrificed for Israel should be 100% repected. And, that is not done with slas, and I am lf.

[MGB8]

It is a sad situation. I agree with OB, generally. However, more Christians fleeing Lebanon is not going to improve the situation there, either. Lebanon should be the model of co-existence and cross-religious respect in the mid-east (as well as a balance of Europe and the middle east). We'll see what happens.

[bararallu]

Let me be brief....SLA are maronite. Like to see your dates. Another propaganda here.

Bottom line...these ppl gave their lives to ISRAEL!

Where are you getting your statistics? Have you served in the SLA? I know those dudes personally and I am telling you that very few were at the end, and for a long time, Christian. Most were secular Shia Arabs.

And people gave their lives for Lebanon, Israel was their ally not their raison detre OB. Did the SLA fight on the Egyptian front for us? Did they see action on the West Bank? No. Dont confuse a good slogan for reality.

Wonder...what if the christian world woke up one day and realize Lebaon is christian State?

That would benefit Israel, but not as much as it would benefit the whole area, and give other Christians a place to flee to (which they are constantly fleeing). But if you are saying others will comeback, what are the trends?

Who ever sacrificed for Israel should be 100% repected. And, that is not done with slas, and I am lf.

LF decided not to go with Israeli aid, as did the other Christian factions, save the Phalangist breakoff, and they are condemned on LF forums by most people for a number of reasons. Some of them- siding with Israel.

[Yala]

SLA was majority Shia. Every Lebanese knows this.

[orangeblossom]

SLA were for YOU!

[Golem of Prague]

This thread completely puzzles me. I don't understand orangeblossom's opening post or the reactions that followed.

[bararallu]

Golem,

I think OB feels that we Israelis (or at least the state of Israel) should act more responsibly vis-a-vis our once erstwhile ally in southern Lebanon. While I agree in principle, I personally think she overstates her case, especially mixing up realpolitik politics with humanity (taking care of friends etc), and possibly ethnic affiliation.

OB,

The Wiki is based on what data? How many SLA soldiers do you know? You are aware that most of the villages down there were Shia in the last 20 years. The Christians packed up and left. The Palestinians raided the Christians and Shia alike in the 70s. That is why Amal fought against Arafat for a period. There were, as you know, stronger magnets for Christians (esp Maronites) to join than the SLA. The secularized anti Mullah Shia were left between a rock and a hard place.

And while I do see that as a generally unreported tragedy (it has been reported and well understood in Israel, probably in Lebanon too but not outside our region), I don't think however that we (as Israel) should be responsible to free the Shia in the area (maybe not even the Christians or Druse who don't come half way to meet us at least)... which is what the SLA was tantamount to. They were a Lebanese secular party. They had families they hated what was happening in the south of Leb, and they had allies among the Christians. They believed in the old Lebanon.

Some of these people are salt of the earth but please have no allusions- there were many traitors. Most of whom never made the press. We lost a lot of ground due to the numerous betrayals, in the passing of information. Iranian intelligence is sharp, they used what ever they could- money or threats or both. And please do your own research, most were not Christian. Thats just a known thing. I think you are speaking very academically, without much research.