Top Hamas bombmaker killed?

[cerulean]

http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.ps...26123758109268

Top Hamas Bombmaker May Be Killed
The Associated Press
Sep 26 2002 12:37PM

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) - An Israeli helicopter fired rockets into a car carrying Palestinian militants Thursday, killing at least two and wounding 35 bystanders. Israel said the target was Hamas' chief bombmaker, and there were conflicting reports about whether he was killed.
Hamas insisted bombmaker Mohammed Deif was alive, but the Islamic militant group threatened to strike everywhere in Israel to avenge the air strike. Israeli police sources and media reports said Deif was killed.

A senior Palestinian security official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Deif was moderately wounded in the attack and was in hiding. The official said Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat was informed of the situation.

None of the claims could be independently confirmed.

Deif's death would likely trigger massive retaliation by Hamas, which has carried out scores of suicide attacks in Israel. In 1996, after Israel killed Deif's mentor, Yehiyeh Ayyash, Hamas responded with four suicide bombings that killed dozens of Israelis. . . .

From the Jerusalem Post:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1032275893302
Sep. 26, 2002
Israel confident Hamas military wing head killed in Gaza; Hamas denies
By MARGOT DUDKEVITCH

A high-ranking Israeli security official on Thursday said the IDF was "one hundred percent" sure that the head of Hamas's military wing was killed when IAF helicopters fired two rockets at a car in Gaza City earlier, Israeli news agency Itim reported, although sources in Hamas have claimed he survived the attack. . . .

This dead-undead controversy reminds me somewhat of Shehada's assassination a couple months ago. One can only hope that Deif's death will mean many fewer bomb attacks in Israel.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by cerulean
Israel confident Hamas military wing head killed in Gaza; Hamas denies

That is fantastic news!

Hamas leader, Muhammad Deif, was on Israel's most-wanted list for years. He personally prepared dozens of sophisticated bombs used by suicide bombers and other Palestinians terrorists. He has the blood of God-knows-how-many innocent children on his hands.

As a Palestinian tribute to his child-murdering accomplishments, Deif was chosen to succeeded Shehada as the top Hamas murder commander.

So now we happily have two Hamas top killers eliminated in a matter of months. Who will be next? No one knows just yet.

But I am sure that the appointment of the next Palestinian top mass-murderer will follow huge funeral processions in which hundreds of armed Palestinian terrorists will march openly in the streets of Arafatistan -- the perfect opportunity for Israel to drop another 2,000 lb. bomb as the truly fitting tribute to Shehada and Deif's bloody careers.

[ibrodsky]

Hamas has a real problem. If Deif is dead, then no one will want to touch the job. Hamas' leaders don't go blow themselves up -- they aren't that crazy!

So assuming he is dead, Hamas is in big trouble, and they are well on their way to being totally crushed -- something these terrorist jihad-genocide (thanks, NewsGuy for that term) mass murders so richly deserve.

[alexbmn]

well the crappy news is that he's probably alive.Much more then Shehada was.They shoul have used a one ton bomb.

[peacelover]

It's not fantastic news when palestinian children are caught up in the bomb newsguy - I don't care if Israel meant to get them or not, I don't think you'd care if someone was aiming for the kids or not if it was one of your children involved.

If someone assassinated Sharon and accidentally killed an Israeli civilian, I would not be so deprave as to call it 'fantastic', despite the fact a bigger murderer than Deif would have been thwarted.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by peacelover
It's not fantastic news when palestinian children are caught up in the bomb newsguy

That's right. I would never refer to wounding children as fantastic. On the contrary, it is a national tragedy visited on the children of the Arabs by their own terrorist culture of violence, which has no regard for children's lives, neither Israelis nor their own. That's why the top leader of one of the world's most notorious terrorist organizations does not hesitate to surround himself by children, inviting their death without a single care in the world about their fate.

But the fantastic news is that a murderer with the blood of scores of Innocent Jewish children and other Israeli civilians on his hands was either killed (Inshallah, as you might say) or at least severely wounded. Hopefully, this will save the lives of his future victims.

- I don't care if Israel meant to get them or not, I don't think you'd care if someone was aiming for the kids or not if it was one of your children involved.

Of course you don't care about facts. Good of you to admit so.

But please don't speak for me.

If someone assassinated Sharon and accidentally killed an Israeli civilian, I would not be so deprave as to call it 'fantastic', despite the fact a bigger murderer than Deif would have been thwarted.

Ariel Sharon, throughout his career, defended Israel against Arab wars, whose intent was to mass murder all Israelis and to ethically cleanse the Jewish homeland of its rightful Jewish owners. At times, he defended against Arab wars, at other times against Arab State-sponsored terrorism, and at other times against Islamic extremism and run of the mill Palestinian murderers.

Deif, on the other hand, is a cowardly sub-human mass murderer similar to Osama bin Ladin, Saddam Hussein, Hafez al Assad and Yasser Arafat. He created bombs filled with shrapnel and iron nails to intentionally plunge into the bodies of helpless Jewish children and tear them to pieces at pizza stores, shopping malls, discos and on their way to school.

There is really no comparison, peacelover, other than in your own mind, although serial killers like Muhammad Deif are precisely what many Palestinians view as a role model to be emulated.

"Itbach al Yahud," just like good old Muhammad Deif said, right peacelover?

[I am David]

Yeah really Peavelover, get a grip on reality.

Even if a few innocent Palestinian children died with the bomb for Dieh, the killing of Dieh has saved the lives of MANY more innocent people than were took by the killing of Dieh, so the net gain is benificial. Which is obviously not to say that no innocent deaths at all would have been better, but with Dieh dead, lives still were saved.

[danholo]

I am David,

What you just said is totally un-Jewish.

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by I am David
Yeah really Peavelover, get a grip on reality.

Even if a few innocent Palestinian children died with the bomb for Dieh, the killing of Dieh has saved the lives of MANY more innocent people than were took by the killing of Dieh, so the net gain is benificial. Which is obviously not to say that no innocent deaths at all would have been better, but with Dieh dead, lives still were saved.

And if Dieh isn't dead, the lives were just taken,no?

Still happy are we? Still think it was worth it?

If the IDF knew where Dieh was, they should have gone in and taken him (and him alone) out. With their tanks, APcs and M16s and healvily defended soldiers.

Perhaps you need that grip on reality!

Oh, and NewsGuy - however much you twist it, it was the ISRAELIS WHO KILLED THE CHILDREN.

[danholo]

Except for two Hamas terrorists, no one was killed. Injured yes, but not killed. Again, there is no proof that the IDF deliberately targets civilians.

[peacelover]

Originally posted by NewsGuy


That's right. I would never refer to wounding children as fantastic. On the contrary, it is a national tragedy visited on the children of the Arabs by their own terrorist culture of violence, which has no regard for children's lives, neither Israelis nor their own. That's why the top leader of one of the world's most notorious terrorist organizations does not hesitate to surround himself by children, inviting their death without a single care in the world about their fate.

Newsguy, he was sitting in a car! It seems that anything other than sitting alone in deserted wasteland is using human shields in your view.

As for your claim that it's the Palestinians' own fault, that really is very sick. Israel should not carry out these extra-judicial assassinations, and it is 100% Israel's decision to do so - it has in no way been forced upon Israel, because Israel could choose to employ less illegal and less 'collateral damage' methods than currently. Using your logic, which is demonstrably that if someone does something to you, anything wrong you may do in return is their own fault, then I could argue suicide bombs are Israel's fault.

But the fantastic news is that a murderer with the blood of scores of Innocent Jewish children and other Israeli civilians on his hands was either killed (Inshallah, as you might say) or at least severely wounded. Hopefully, this will save the lives of his future victims.

I wouldn't say Inshallah because I'm not a Muslim.

And ******** will it save future victims - Hamas are already shouting for revenge, and they will have it, you know they will. Israel has been trying for 2 years to stop them - and Israel has failed, and Israel will continue to fail if it continues to employ the same methods as currently.

Of course you don't care about facts. Good of you to admit so.

But please don't speak for me.

Oooh, isn't he a card ladies and gentlemen!

I think you're the one who doesn't care about facts - the fact that innocent civilians have been wounded (in the manner in which Israelis are wounded by suicide bombs) for little tangible gain. Face it newsguy - the reason Israel wants these leaders dead is revenge, punishment... call it what you will, but what is sure is that it will not stop the violence.

As for the second part, I do apologise, and now fully accept that if a loved one of yours were to end up as 'collateral damage' you would not complain. Apologies for thinking you would.

Ariel Sharon, throughout his career, defended Israel against Arab wars, whose intent was to mass murder all Israelis and to ethically cleanse the Jewish homeland of its rightful Jewish owners. At times, he defended against Arab wars, at other times against Arab State-sponsored terrorism, and at other times against Islamic extremism and run of the mill Palestinian murderers.

Nice try. He is a monster, a heathen which is a blot on the name of democracy. He fully cooperated in the sick mass murder in Lebanon, amounting to as many deaths as Israel has incurred in the intifada. He wishes to cleanse the West bank and Gaza of the Palestinian population and seize more land for Israel - this is demonstrated by his support for the continued expansion of illegal and immoral settlements. And please don't use the term 'state-sponsored terrorism' unless you are prepared to apply it to Israel.

Deif, on the other hand, is a cowardly sub-human mass murderer similar to Osama bin Ladin, Saddam Hussein, Hafez al Assad and Yasser Arafat.

And Ariel Sharon

He created bombs filled with shrapnel and iron nails to intentionally plunge into the bodies of helpless Jewish children and tear them to pieces at pizza stores, shopping malls, discos and on their way to school.

But has he done them any more harm than Sharon has done the Arab children whom he has bombed (intentionally or not)? Fancy being a helpless Arab child, who has F-16s circling overhead all the while, and when they are dropped on you, on your way to school, people defend it as 'self-defence'. Please tell me how their physical injuries and suffering is any different - please, please do, because I kep asking this question, and the response I get is a typical dodge which just says'but Israel wasn;t aiming for them', thereby ignoring the question of practical consequence and suffering

There is really no comparison, peacelover, other than in your own mind

Given that he has no more blood on his hand than Sharon, the only justification for your statement can be that you feel there is no comparison between Jewish blood and Arab blood... but then again, I could have inferred this from your other posts.

"Itbach al Yahud," just like good old Muhammad Deif said, right peacelover?

Don't know what it means, don't speak Arabic.

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by danholo
Except for two Hamas terrorists, no one was killed. Injured yes, but not killed. Again, there is no proof that the IDF deliberately targets civilians.

There is however ample proof that it doesn't seek to ensure their safety, no? That it is quite happy to aim missiles at cars which are in busy streets.

Which is why it has killed far more civilians that the "terrorists"who are deliberately targetting them!

[Miriam]

Were children hurt at all?

I saw an interesting thing on the TV coverage of this (attempted?) killing. As they often do, they showed the footage again and again, so I’m quite sure I’m not mistaken. Abu Dhabi TV apparently got to the scene of the burning car of Mohammed Def first. They showed a wounded man being taken out of the car. It was not possible to see his face. There is some suspicion that this is Def, and this is why they’re not sure that he is dead.

The footage continues. A few scenes later, you can
clearly see a young boy, in a bright yellow T-shirt, very actively keeping passers-by from coming near what looks like part of the car-wreckage. I got the impression someone had told him to do this, and he, proud of his mission, was fulfilling it most conscientiously, very cocky and full of himself. A few scenes later, I could see the same boy, wearing the same bright yellow T-shirt, being helped towards an ambulance, as if he were wounded. Now, if it weren’t for that bright yellow T-shirt I probably wouldn’t have made the connection, but I saw it about three or four times and it was definitely the same boy.

So 16 kids were injured, were they? I wonder.

http://imshin.blogspot.com/2002_09_2....html#82161309

[danholo]

Originally posted by freethepeeps


There is however ample proof that it doesn't seek to ensure their safety, no? That it is quite happy to aim missiles at cars which are in busy streets.

Good point. However, how else should Israel get these terrorists?
Information on where and when these terrorists are is not that easy to come by.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by freethepeeps


There is however ample proof that it doesn't seek to ensure their safety, no? That it is quite happy to aim missiles at cars which are in busy streets.

Which is why it has killed far more civilians that the "terrorists"who are deliberately targetting them!

Show us some numbers. The ones I've seen make it clear that the majority of Israeli victims are women, children, and elderly. And the majority of Palestinian victims are combatants.

But there are two other facts which Palestinian supporters need to face... if they care about the truth:

1. The IDF targets combatants. Palestinian terrorists target civilians.

2. Palestinian combatants purposely hide among and even shoot from behind civilians. In their twisted, sick world, drawing fire on children is good because when a child dies it creates a PR opportunity for the "poor, oppressed Palestinians."