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Thread: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

  1. #1
    maven
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    Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    Obamas Muslim Speech.
    -An Ode to Joy this is not.
    Melanie Phillips.
    Wednesday, 3rd June 2009

    EXTRACT:

    As we all know, Obama is to make a speech of cosmic significance in Cairo. The run-up to this speech has been characterised by some epic spinning from shadowy American and Israeli ‘sources’ which has been creating a powerful bow-wave of feverish speculation and alarm. The Israelis are apparently shocked and appalled by Obama’s demand – transmitted through Hillary Clinton, no less – that not only should Israel build no new settlements but must not allow the current ones to expand through natural growth. In other words, a thinly disguised requirement for ethnic cleansing through a policy of slow strangulation.

    If Israel’s government really is shocked and appalled by this, I would regard that as the most shocking and appalling thing of all, since Obama’s irrational beliefs that a) removing the settlers is the route to a Palestinian state and b) such a state will end the Arab war against Israel and help defeat Iran, not to mention c) his ignorance of international law dating back to the still legally binding Mandate giving the right of Jewish settlement throughout the whole of (then) Palestine which includes present day West Bank and Gaza, have been crystal clear since way before his election. (As for Hillary, since she was against Israel’s interests before she was for them -- which by an astounding coincidence took place while she was Senator for New York – and is now against them again, who can be surprised?)

    According to this Washington Post story, Mahmoud Abbas confirmed that Netanyahu’s predecessor, Ehud Olmert, offered the Palestinians 97 per cent of the West Bank for a Palestinian state, plus ‘the right of return’ and large-scale Palestinian immigration into Israel – yet still this wasn’t enough for the Palestinians. So how can Obama maintain that all now hinges on the dismantling of the settlements and the construction of a Palestine state, when clearly this is not what the Palestinians want at all?

    On the other hand, however, all this is still just spin. If the US were to punish Israel for not agreeing to commit national suicide, the real Israel lobby in America -- the Christian heartlands – would go nuts. Plus the relationship between the two countries is not a one-way street: if Israel were to stop sharing its intelligence with the US, for example, the reaction of the US military would likely dwarf even their fury with Obama over publishing ‘torture’ pictures or shutting down the military tribunals. Given that a strategic game is being played vis a vis Iran, every pronouncement or shadowy bit of spin surely has to be regarded as inherently unreliable. But the mood music is all playing one tune, and it sure isn’t the Ode to Joy.

    It was a grim commentary on the current British contribution to peace in the Middle East that it took the BBC this morning to make Obama seem quite reasonable in relation to Israel. In an interview, the BBC‘s North American editor Justin Webb pressed Obama to say what he would do to force Israel to keep its commitments under the Road Map, given (and here his voice rose in righteous indignation) that Israeli ministers had been declaring flat-out that Israel would refuse to bend under Obama’s bullying statesmanlike peace initiative. No mention of the claim by Mahmoud Abbas that Obama was apparently intent on producing regime change in Israel (to the BBC, it seems, regime change is only a crime when used against genocidal tyrants -- but of no interest whatever when contemplated against their victims).

    No mention by Justin Webb that the Palestinians were in breach of their commitments which are rather more fundamental than settlements, being the requirement to stop waging a war of extermination against Israel. It took Obama to murmur that the Palestinians had to stop their incitement to hatred and murder – something he said a day or so ago, and it is notable and encouraging that he said it; although he’s still not indicating that, as per the Road Map, the Palestinians are required to dismantle their infrastructure of war before Israel is expected to do anything in its turn.

    What is also highly troubling about Obama’s imminent trip is not just his speech in Cairo but where he is going after that. For his next stop is Buchenwald – and straight after that, Dresden. Dresden? Why on earth Dresden of all places? One reason only, surely. The symbolism is unmistakeable – the site of the most controversial Allied bombing of World War Two. It looks horribly like Obama intends to make a symbolic statement of reproach for that event – just to go there makes the point, without even saying anything -- and even worse, to make some kind of equation with the slaughter at Buchenwald. One holocaust doesn't deserve another, would seem to be the unspoken message, would it not? Or to put it another way, if Jews defend themselves by military means, they turn into Nazis.

    In the light of Iran’s genocidal threats against Israel and the nuclear weapons that Obama is giving it the time to assemble to make good those threats, such symbolism would be unspeakable – and another feather of western defeatism for a gloating Iran to stick in its cap.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/melanieph...s-is-not.thtml

  2. #2
    savvy
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    Re: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    Obama also said the U.S. could be seen as the World's largest Muslim country.

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ast-speech/?hp

    Obama Says U.S. Could Be Seen as a Muslim Country, Too
    “And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world,”

  3. #3
    andak01
    Guest

    Re: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    I've taken the liberty of emphasizing in blue the portions of this article that actually pertain to the content of Obama's speech in Cairo. I'm pressing my fingers tightly together to show just how much more I know about Obama's Cairo speech after reading this than I did previously. This is obviously preemptive of his saying anything in Cairo in case we should dare to parse the speech for ourselves. I'm assuming that "Muslim Speech" is your own addition Maven. Would you refer to any speech he gave in Israel as his Jew speech?

    Quote Originally Posted by maven View Post
    Obamas Muslim Speech.
    -An Ode to Joy this is not.
    Melanie Phillips.
    Wednesday, 3rd June 2009

    EXTRACT:

    As we all know, Obama is to make a speech of cosmic significance in Cairo. The run-up to this speech has been characterised by some epic spinning from shadowy American and Israeli ‘sources’ which has been creating a powerful bow-wave of feverish speculation and alarm. The Israelis are apparently shocked and appalled by Obama’s demand – transmitted through Hillary Clinton, no less – that not only should Israel build no new settlements but must not allow the current ones to expand through natural growth. In other words, a thinly disguised requirement for ethnic cleansing through a policy of slow strangulation.

    If Israel’s government really is shocked and appalled by this, I would regard that as the most shocking and appalling thing of all, since Obama’s irrational beliefs that a) removing the settlers is the route to a Palestinian state and b) such a state will end the Arab war against Israel and help defeat Iran, not to mention c) his ignorance of international law dating back to the still legally binding Mandate giving the right of Jewish settlement throughout the whole of (then) Palestine which includes present day West Bank and Gaza, have been crystal clear since way before his election. (As for Hillary, since she was against Israel’s interests before she was for them -- which by an astounding coincidence took place while she was Senator for New York – and is now against them again, who can be surprised?)

    According to this Washington Post story, Mahmoud Abbas confirmed that Netanyahu’s predecessor, Ehud Olmert, offered the Palestinians 97 per cent of the West Bank for a Palestinian state, plus ‘the right of return’ and large-scale Palestinian immigration into Israel – yet still this wasn’t enough for the Palestinians. So how can Obama maintain that all now hinges on the dismantling of the settlements and the construction of a Palestine state, when clearly this is not what the Palestinians want at all?

    On the other hand, however, all this is still just spin. If the US were to punish Israel for not agreeing to commit national suicide, the real Israel lobby in America -- the Christian heartlands – would go nuts. Plus the relationship between the two countries is not a one-way street: if Israel were to stop sharing its intelligence with the US, for example, the reaction of the US military would likely dwarf even their fury with Obama over publishing ‘torture’ pictures or shutting down the military tribunals. Given that a strategic game is being played vis a vis Iran, every pronouncement or shadowy bit of spin surely has to be regarded as inherently unreliable. But the mood music is all playing one tune, and it sure isn’t the Ode to Joy.

    It was a grim commentary on the current British contribution to peace in the Middle East that it took the BBC this morning to make Obama seem quite reasonable in relation to Israel. In an interview, the BBC‘s North American editor Justin Webb pressed Obama to say what he would do to force Israel to keep its commitments under the Road Map, given (and here his voice rose in righteous indignation) that Israeli ministers had been declaring flat-out that Israel would refuse to bend under Obama’s bullying statesmanlike peace initiative. No mention of the claim by Mahmoud Abbas that Obama was apparently intent on producing regime change in Israel (to the BBC, it seems, regime change is only a crime when used against genocidal tyrants -- but of no interest whatever when contemplated against their victims).

    No mention by Justin Webb that the Palestinians were in breach of their commitments which are rather more fundamental than settlements, being the requirement to stop waging a war of extermination against Israel. It took Obama to murmur that the Palestinians had to stop their incitement to hatred and murder – something he said a day or so ago, and it is notable and encouraging that he said it; although he’s still not indicating that, as per the Road Map, the Palestinians are required to dismantle their infrastructure of war before Israel is expected to do anything in its turn.

    What is also highly troubling about Obama’s imminent trip is not just his speech in Cairo but where he is going after that. For his next stop is Buchenwald – and straight after that, Dresden. Dresden? Why on earth Dresden of all places? One reason only, surely. The symbolism is unmistakeable – the site of the most controversial Allied bombing of World War Two. It looks horribly like Obama intends to make a symbolic statement of reproach for that event – just to go there makes the point, without even saying anything -- and even worse, to make some kind of equation with the slaughter at Buchenwald. One holocaust doesn't deserve another, would seem to be the unspoken message, would it not? Or to put it another way, if Jews defend themselves by military means, they turn into Nazis.

    In the light of Iran’s genocidal threats against Israel and the nuclear weapons that Obama is giving it the time to assemble to make good those threats, such symbolism would be unspeakable – and another feather of western defeatism for a gloating Iran to stick in its cap.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/melanieph...s-is-not.thtml

  4. #4
    maven
    Guest

    Re: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by andak01 View Post
    I'm assuming that "Muslim Speech" is your own addition Maven. Would you refer to any speech he gave in Israel as his Jew speech?
    It is a speech to Muslims or we could say 'The Muslim world.' Y'know, where you are not.

    It will be delivered I think tomorrow in Egypt which is a dictatorship as to opposed to Iraq which was liberated by his predessor President George. W. Bush (PBUH), and bears the shame of being a youthful democracy.
    Last edited by maven; 06-03-2009 at 01:20 PM.

  5. #5
    redcake
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    Re: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    If Obama were to travel and make well hyped address to the Jewish World, then yes I think it would be fair to say it was his Jewish Speech, right alongside his Race Speech. If you take issue with Obama addressing the "Muslim World" then it's Obama himself you take issue with, and his own wording.

  6. #6
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    Re: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by maven
    ...President George. W. Bush (PBUH) ...
    Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
    Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright

  7. #7
    redcake
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    Re: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    He's going to start his speech with "Christian Arabs, please cover your ears".

  8. #8
    andak01
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    Re: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by maven View Post
    It is a speech to Muslims or we could say 'The Muslim world.' Y'know, where you are not.

    It will be delivered I think tomorrow in Egypt which is a dictatorship as to opposed to Iraq which was liberated by his predessor President George. W. Bush (PBUH), and bears the shame of being a youthful democracy.
    I know all about that liberation. Some of my aquaintances were among the over 1 million displaced people who still have family living in refugee camps in Syria and elsewhere. Is that what you call it when you go from a middle class existence, albeit under a brutal dictator to saying final goodbyes every week or so that you get up courage to leave the house, getting pieces of family members in the mail or being extorted out of everything you own? I suggest you try life after two or three months with no police where the only law is a fifty dollar automatic weapon. We had looting and people shooting at helecoptors after the first day of that in New Orleans. Extend that to a whole country and a period of many months and then go ahead and blame it all on them.

    Bush's legacy in Iraq is a totally corrupt Shiite semi-theocracy with close ties to an empowered about to be nuclear Iran. We are so powerless in the face of Iran precisely because we are so tied up in Iraq.

  9. #9
    maven
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    Re: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by redcake View Post
    He's going to start his speech with "Christian Arabs, please cover your ears".
    Ended up more like "Ich bin ein Muslimeener."

  10. #10
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    Re: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    It was ridiculously overhyped. There was nothing substantively new in that speech. The only thing that changed was the "procedure"; he quoted to Qu'ran now and then in order to support the policies which he advocated from the start and make them look new.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Re: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    Well he called for a Jew Free West Bank at any rate.

  12. #12
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    Re: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    Not really. Ending settlement activity doesn't amount to dismantling the settlements. There was a degree of ambiguity there though, perhaps intentionally.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Aliyah1995's Avatar
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    Re: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    Quote Originally Posted by curlyg View Post
    Not really. Ending settlement activity doesn't amount to dismantling the settlements. There was a degree of ambiguity there though, perhaps intentionally.
    And what are those of us who live in "settlements" now supposed to do to prevent natural growth? Have abortions?!?!
    "Study astronomy and physics if you desire to comprehend the relation between the world and G-d's management of it." - RaMBaM (Maimonides), Guide For The Perplexed

  14. #14
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    Re: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    "Natural growth" doesn't refer to population growth, it refers to construction in the settlements to accomodate said population growth. Hold off on the abortions.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Re: Obama's speech:Melanie Phillips

    Sounds like what Pharoah told the Hebrews in Egypt, no? What next? Obama tells his minions to toss all the male babies in the river?

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