Geert Wilders Poll Victory

[Rob]

But one with one of the highest living standards on earth, certainly better than Israel, I would say even better than France and GB.

I really doubt this...according to some measures the living standard in Israel is higher. Debt of Belgium is huge.

Wallonia is doing way worse than Israel...Wallonia is in a very bad shape. Wallonia is economically on the same level as Trinidad. Flanders is on the level of other Western European economies.

really? that's new to me? any sources?

Apart from the media in Belgium and the neighbouring Netherlands, the international papers and broadcasters have hardly reported about the disintegration of the EU’s host country. On Tuesday a survey of the Dutch [Netherlandish] television network RTL4 showed that 77% of the inhabitants of the Netherlands are in favour of the Netherlands and Flanders merging into one country.
In Belgium, an internet poll of Flanders’ largest newspaper, Het Laatste Nieuws, showed 50.9% in favour of reuniting Flanders and the Netherlands. The Flemish provinces were part of the Netherlands until 1831, when the international powers established the Kingdom of Belgium.

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2348

Most Flemish I know woud rather join Israel or ireland than the Netherlands.

Frenchspeaking Brussels is the motor of the Belgian economy. Walloon is in a worse shape.

Brussels is officially bi-lingual and is not part of Wallonia.


Back on topic. The vote for Wilders during these elections was more a vote against Europe than Islam. His whole campaigm was around that. During the national election Islam will be on his agenda again.

As for the victories of extreme right is Hungary etc. I don't know what to fear more, extreme right or extreme left? I guess it all adds up to the same: uniforms marching in the streets and no room for individualism.

[takeo]

Rob

I really doubt this...according to some measures the living standard in Israel is higher. Debt of Belgium is huge.

oh come on, what's the average salary in Israel for a normal factory job? Compared to 1500-2000 euro netto in Belgium? according to www.undp.org Belgium is way ahead of Israel both concerning living standards as well as GNP per inhabitant.
Human development index in Belgium is 0.946 (17th of the world) in Israel it is 0.932 (23th in the world)

Wallonia is doing way worse than Israel...Wallonia is in a very bad shape. Wallonia is economically on the same level as Trinidad. Flanders is on the level of other Western European economies.

not true. GNP per capita of Belgium is 36235 $, of Israel it is 28206.
The Belgian GNP (which includes Wallonia) per capita is comparable to the UK, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Germany, and well ahead of Japan, France let alone Spain or Italy, let alone Israel.

I don't have any statistics for Wallonia, but in general it is believed GNP is about 20% lower than in Flanders and 15% lower than the national level. That's still well above Israel...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...PP)_per_capita

Brussels is officially bi-lingual and is not part of Wallonia.

No, but the majority of Brussels is french-speaking, it is a separate entity.

Back on topic. The vote for Wilders during these elections was more a vote against Europe than Islam. His whole campaigm was around that. During the national election Islam will be on his agenda again.

As for the victories of extreme right is Hungary etc. I don't know what to fear more, extreme right or extreme left? I guess it all adds up to the same: uniforms marching in the streets and no room for individualism.

Do you see uniforms marching in the street in europe? I don't. In Israel I see plenty of people marching on the street with automatic guns, not in Europe...
I still don't understand how Jews can support such fascist organisations. Fortunately most are smart enough to stay away from those, extremists are only a minority in every country, even in Hungary, Flandres or France. Fortunately so.

[Rob]

not true. GNP per capita of Belgium is 36235 $, of Israel it is 28206. The Belgian GNP (which includes Wallonia) per capita is comparable to the UK, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Germany, and well ahead of Japan, France let alone Spain or Italy, let alone Israel.

"Funny" how you always need to play word games. GNP per capita of Wallonia is on the same level of Trinidad. Look it up!

Do you see uniforms marching in the street in europe?

Oh yes, soooo many occasions (with guns FWIW). And I lived in Europe for 30+ years.

Never seen uniforms marching in the streets of Tel Aviv though...

[takeo]

Rob

"Funny" how you always need to play word games. GNP per capita of Wallonia is on the same level of Trinidad. Look it up!

If GNP per capita in Wallonia is 15% lower than the national average, as is generally believed in Belgium, than it's still way above both Israel and Trinidad...

Oh yes, soooo many occasions (with guns FWIW). And I lived in Europe for 30+ years.

Well I lived in Europe for 30+ years too (of which let's say 25 years conciously) and I've never seen uniforms parading on the streets, except for the majorettes and on carnival...
In which European country did you live?

Never seen uniforms marching in the streets of Tel Aviv though...

I've seen plenty of civilian groups armed with automathic guns parading
trough the streets of Jerusalem, even during my last visit.
In most European countries the police would appear in a matter of minutes and arrest you.

[Yala]

Originally posted by Rob:
Oh yes, soooo many occasions (with guns FWIW). And I lived in Europe for 30+ years.

Fascist groups marching down the streets in Europe is a normal occurance, and uniforms are the norm.

http://www.daylife.com/photo/0gPv1DJ8pa6qv

Members of the Jobbik Hungarian Guard march in Budapest February 10, 2008. The Hungarian Guard, Hungarian far-right party Jobbik's paramilitary arm, marched to commemorate the 51st death anniversary of World War II head of state Miklos Horty.

http://www.antisemitism.org.il/eng/s...eetsofDortmund

Radical right wing activists, mostly dressed in black, proudly strode down the streets of Dortmund waving black, white and red flags. Police secured the event in an attempt to avoid violent flashes between the opposing sides.

6000 Neo-Nazis march in Dresden, Feb 15, 2009:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7891076.stm

Neo-Nazis in uniform march in Russia:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pict...i-salutes.html

Never seen uniforms marching in the streets of Tel Aviv though...

Never. Anyway, in Israel it is mainly the extreme left that marches, but without uniforms of course.

[takeo]

Fascist groups marching down the streets in Europe is a normal occurance, and uniforms are the norm.


Never

Well, I never saw it anyway, I don't even think it already happened in france or Belgium during last decades. There are unfirmed groups marching trough us streets as well most probably (KKK, etc.) but I don't think it's a normal occurance, well it isn't either in Europe.

[Mediocrates]

I'm sure our resident commissariat will blame it all on Israel.

[Achihud]

the majority of Belgians still support the monarchy and Belgium, altough they are not very nationalistic or patriottic, especially compared to France.

Lukewarm at best and some who are in it for the memorabilia.

I wouldn't say the loss of sunday was deceptive, it was very real, the party lost nearly half of its votes.

I referred to the previous election.

Also, I don't understand how Jews can support fascists like those ones. Many of their supporters are neo-nazi's and have outspoken racist ideas, including antisemitic ones. (especially in Antwerp)

Some historical ties to VMO no doubt but what counts is what the leadership stands for today.

This is extremely unlikely, especially now that they have lost the elections. The big winner of the elections are the center christian-democrats, they will NEVER form a government with VB, and Dedecker himself is very controversial and only received 8% of the votes. (besides I don't think Dedecker is good news for Israel-supporters he's the most outspoken supporter of the palestinian cause in Belgian politics, also Flemish nationalists NVA support the palestinian cause).

Still far from lunatics like Ritta Duisenberg, The ones that can't be trusted are the green parties and those that buddy buddy with Abou Jahjah. Anxious is a cry baby.

I would say the inverse, now that they lost the election big time their "momentum" is over.

We'll see.

[takeo]

Achihud

Lukewarm at best and some who are in it for the memorabilia.

Isn't that the case in most royalties?

Some historical ties to VMO no doubt but what counts is what the leadership stands for today.

So you know about their nazi past and supporters but still support VB because they are anti-Arab as well? That's quite shocking actually and very stupid and sad.

Still far from lunatics like Ritta Duisenberg, The ones that can't be trusted are the green parties and those that buddy buddy with Abou Jahjah. Anxious is a cry baby.

But I've heard NVA people and Dedecker supporting the Palestinian cause as well, it's not only limited to the left.

[Achihud]

So you know about their nazi past and supporters but still support VB because they are anti-Arab as well? That's quite shocking actually and very stupid and sad.

Is that something that keeps you awake at night?

Even if you take a homoeopathic dilution of 1/10000 of the SA post WWI, you would still have nothing near VMO at its peak.

[takeo]

Is that something that keeps you awake at night?

Even if you take a homoeopathic dilution of 1/10000 of the SA post WWI, you would still have nothing near VMO at its peak.

I doubt that, if I hear some VB-sympathisers, or even Dewinter spreading his hatred against Frenchspeaking people and all foreigners, it gives me chills... they never got the chance to bring it into reality, fortunately...

[uriah007]

But Belgium is relative different because of the tension between north and south, the Netherlands doesn't have that problem. That's why Wilders wants to see the Dutch part of Belgium corporated into the Netherlands.

I think the side that makes better beer, moules and frites will win. People often vote with their stomachs.

[dayag]

Freedom Party did well in the two municipal elections they took part in; though I have to ask, if they want to be a national party, why did they participate in only two elections out of 394.

General elections in Holland aren't scheduled until June. But municipal polls on Wednesday may have provided a peek at how the populist, anti-Islam Freedom Party (PVV) of Geert Wilders' might fare. And for many, the glimpse is cause for some concern.

Election results show that Wilders' party came out in front in the town of Almere and finished in second place in The Hague, the only two municipalities -- of 394 -- where his party put up candidates.

"Today Almere and The Hague, tomorrow the whole of the Netherlands," Wilders said Wednesday night, according to the AP. "We're going to take the Netherlands back from the leftist elite that coddles criminals and supports Islamization." Given the weak showing by the Christian Democrats and the Labor party -- which shared power in a national coalition until it collapsed last month over the country's Afghanistan deployment -- Wednesday's vote could signal that the Freedom Party may be a key player in June...

source: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...681945,00.html

[Rob]

Freedom Party did well in the two municipal elections they took part in; though I have to ask, if they want to be a national party, why did they participate in only two elections out of 394.

First, the PVV is a very young fast growing party and probably doesn't have enough competent candidates for the municipalities.
A few years ago, the LPF, lead by Pim Fortuyn who was killed by the left, was also a young fast growing party with more or less the same program. They tried to fill every possible position with their own people, no matter whether their compentence. That, and of course the murder of the party leader, killed the party. I am guessing the PVV doesn't want to make the same mistake.
Secondly, the main issue for the PVV has to be dealt with on a national level (in the national parlement), stopping immigration, and especially Muslim immigration. Lower level government is therefore not considered so important for them.

[andak01]

"Today Almere and The Hague, tomorrow the whole of the Netherlands," Wilders said Wednesday night, according to the AP.

Something about this quote is oddly familiar. Can anyone help me out here? Anti-immigration, fear and hate mongering in order to achieve a militant government has been tried very successfully in many parts by Hitler, Idi Amin, and a bunch of other unsavory characters. If the economy revives, he's done for.