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Thread: Univ. of Michigan to Host 'Zionism is Racism' Conference

  1. #16
    ibrodsky
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    Originally posted by freethepeeps


    I reckon they find the tanks, helicopters, F16s, M16s and soldiers (ie military) the most pressing matter at the moment!

    Besides which, aren't I always being told that Arafat has the "Resistance" completely under his control?

    That's exactly my point. Palestinians need to liberate themselves from the PA-Hamas totalitarian terrorist united front.

    You know full well that prior to the current intifada the IDF had withdrawn from all Palestinian population centers. This despite the fact that terrorism against civilians never completely stopped. The reason the IDF is back is because terrorism has since intensified.

    The Palestinians have no one to blame but their own widely supported mass murder terrorists for the curfews, checkpoints, and incursions.

  2. #17
    Senior Member NewsGuy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by freethepeeps
    Besides which, aren't I always being told that Arafat has the "Resistance" completely under his control?

    freethepeeps, the above icon is exactly how I visualize you.

    Arafat has been proven to be in complete control of the terrorism for which he directly provides funding and leadership.

  3. #18
    freethepeeps
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    Originally posted by ibrodsky


    That's exactly my point. Palestinians need to liberate themselves from the PA-Hamas totalitarian terrorist united front.

    You know full well that prior to the current intifada the IDF had withdrawn from all Palestinian population centers. This despite the fact that terrorism against civilians never completely stopped. The reason the IDF is back is because terrorism has since intensified.

    The Palestinians have no one to blame but their own widely supported mass murder terrorists for the curfews, checkpoints, and incursions.
    If the "Resistance" is part of the front, then presumably they don't think that they need liberating. If on the other hand, there is no front, and Hamas is not under Arafats control, then that is a different story. But that is not what the most often repeated claim on these boards is, is it?

    Do a google search on West Bank + occupation + 2000 and there's no indication that the occupation ever stopped. And at no stage did the occupation of Palestine end. When I went to Gaza, it was an 'A' area. That night the tanks rolled in. Felt like occupation and smelt like occupation to me.

    This guy claims the first suicide bombing of the Intifada was on 26/10/00 near a miltary site in Gaza. He says the second attack was on 27/03/01 in Jerusalem.

    Now either he's wrong, or you are!

  4. #19
    freethepeeps
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    Originally posted by NewsGuy


    freethepeeps, the above icon is exactly how I visualize you.

    Arafat has been proven to be in complete control of the terrorism for which he directly provides funding and leadership.
    If that is true, then they clearly are fighting for Arafat, and not against him, so Ibrodsky's post doesn't make sense, as they are part of the "totalitarian" regime.

    Don't be fooled by the icon - I was using it ironically. Rather typically Ibrodsky doesn't see that the resistance would be focussed on the most visible form of oppression, which is the military presence.


  5. #20
    minusthejihad
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    You still don't get it, do you.

    if A = Uncontent with getting 98% of Gaza and West Bank during negotiations that the PA walked away from.

    if B = Sore loosers and poor negotiators decide to get not the other 2%, but rather the other 102% and drive Jews into the sea as they always wanted.

    then A + B = C

    C = Military Presence, not Occupation.

    Did they quit teaching math, physics, or comon sense in the UK?

  6. #21
    ibrodsky
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    Originally posted by freethepeeps


    If that is true, then they clearly are fighting for Arafat, and not against him, so Ibrodsky's post doesn't make sense, as they are part of the "totalitarian" regime.

    Don't be fooled by the icon - I was using it ironically. Rather typically Ibrodsky doesn't see that the resistance would be focussed on the most visible form of oppression, which is the military presence.

    I guess I must not be stating my point clearly enough. My point is that the Palestinian people are living under the totalitarian rule of Arafat's terrorist united front. To the extent that the Palestinian people support the totalitarian terrorist united front, they are themselves totalitarians.

    My point is also that a legitimate resistance would be focused on the military presence -- not students and staff having lunch at Hebrew University. By attacking civilians, Palestinian terrorists are trying to tell the world that they hate and want to destroy all Jews and not just Israeli soldiers.

    I don't know how anyone could not see this...

  7. #22
    freethepeeps
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    Originally posted by ibrodsky


    I guess I must not be stating my point clearly enough. My point is that the Palestinian people are living under the totalitarian rule of Arafat's terrorist united front. To the extent that the Palestinian people support the totalitarian terrorist united front, they are themselves totalitarians.

    My point is also that a legitimate resistance would be focused on the military presence -- not students and staff having lunch at Hebrew University. By attacking civilians, Palestinian terrorists are trying to tell the world that they hate and want to destroy all Jews and not just Israeli soldiers.

    I don't know how anyone could not see this...
    And back to the top of the loop!

    How are Palestinians supposed to resist such a heavily armoured and well defended military presence without weapons that even nearly equate? It's a question I have posed often, here and in other fora. Yet to receive a realistic answer.

    And the targetting of civilians is happening on both sides. However much you deny, it happens, and the death toll is greater for Palestinians.

    minusthejihad

    I'm sure they do teach all those things in the UK, my schooling happened elsewhere.

    And your version of events differs greatly from my understanding of it.

    Which is why I said that I was well aware that there are (at least) two narratives to this story, and that they have little in common.

    I find this account of Oslo's failure far more convincing

  8. #23
    Miriam
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    Originally posted by ibrodsky
    My point is also that a legitimate resistance would be focused on the military presence -- not students and staff having lunch at Hebrew University. By attacking civilians, Palestinian terrorists are trying to tell the world that they hate and want to destroy all Jews and not just Israeli soldiers.
    Have you ever considered the possibility that this is precisely what makes their "cause" so popular?

  9. #24
    minusthejihad
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    That, coupled with the perception that these Arabs are the downtrodden, third world, oppressed people that everyone feels so guilty about when they fill their SUVs with gas. However, I doubt this cause is so popular amongst neighbors of Arab diaspora throughout the world, except of course, in your neck of the woods, Miriam, where another dead Jew is more proof of a faied leader's self fulfilling prophesy.

  10. #25
    L@mplighterM
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    Bin Laden and his partner Omar stole a country and its people. Arafat isn’t born in the WB or GS I believe he was born in Cairo. Arafat is a soldier of fortune and he has a bank account worth billions of dollars to prove that.

    The situation in the WB and GS was unfortunately dumped on Israel and it’s their responsibility to maintain law and order. Several years ago that task was handed over to the PA and since then they have done a deplorable job.

    Currently Israel is undertaking some housecleaning in the WB and GS under difficult circumstances. This represents a danger to Arafat and the Palestinian leadership because if peace should ever return they will no longer have an excuse for the supposed deplorable conditions there.

    If and when peace ever became a reality demands would be placed on Arafat to improve living conditions. That will cost money and he wont be able to siphon off the money he receives from the EU and the US.

    As long as he can keep the conflict rolling along $$$$$$$$$ streams into Arafat’s bank account.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Originally posted by freethepeeps


    If the "Resistance" is part of the front, then presumably they don't think that they need liberating. If on the other hand, there is no front, and Hamas is not under Arafats control, then that is a different story. But that is not what the most often repeated claim on these boards is, is it?

    Do a google search on West Bank + occupation + 2000 and there's no indication that the occupation ever stopped. And at no stage did the occupation of Palestine end. When I went to Gaza, it was an 'A' area. That night the tanks rolled in. Felt like occupation and smelt like occupation to me.

    This guy claims the first suicide bombing of the Intifada was on 26/10/00 near a miltary site in Gaza. He says the second attack was on 27/03/01 in Jerusalem.

    Now either he's wrong, or you are!
    Maybe you could translate that from high school communism into English because I don't follow this.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Let's talk instead about all the progress that the PA threw away since the Oslo war. In Al-Hayat, Egyptian author Amin Al-Mahdi talks about the fantastic waste the PA has accomplished.

    http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD42202

    Whether you trust the source or not or even whether you care that an Egyptian author is saying it there are critical points being made there. Moreover he criticizes the Arab states for exploiting that failure in terms of making any progress on their own behalf.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    And then compare that to the steady diet of Al-Minbar inspired hate speech against the West, the Jews, the Christians, the Israelis, other arabs, secular arabs, women and just about everyone else.

    http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SR802

  14. #29
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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  15. #30
    Miriam
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    Originally posted by minusthejihad
    That, coupled with the perception that these Arabs are the downtrodden, third world, oppressed people that everyone feels so guilty about when they fill their SUVs with gas. However, I doubt this cause is so popular amongst neighbors of Arab diaspora throughout the world, except of course, in your neck of the woods, Miriam, where another dead Jew is more proof of a faied leader's self fulfilling prophesy.
    Not that simple, Minus . I don't believe that the perception of Arabs as poor and downtrodden is genuine, neither in my "neck of the woods", nor anywhere else. It's a rather perverse little game, just look at some of your countrymen on this board .

    As for the "failed leader" himself - he is popular only among a minority. A larger part of the native European population (don't forget that in nearly every country occupied by or allied with Germany in WWII the local population was quite co-operative when it came to the Jews, our former common homeland no exception to this...) draws IMO comfort from what may be roughly expressed as "look, we were not the only ones, so there must have been something to it... if only the Jews were actng in a different way...". No, of course, they won't put it that way, not immediately, they are all for justice, their Jewish friends are some of the finest people they know and soooo critical of Israel, yes, they have donated money to a Holocaust memorial foundation, oh, they have sobbed at Yad Vashem, oooh, so tragic, no, it's only about justice for the Palestinians... Let them carry on a bit, and there comes a "but", first the tiniest hint, then, if they don't "feel understood", the full version...

    (No, I don't mean that every last person over here puts on such acts, fortunately enough. But every last "fighter for justice for the Palestinian people" of the noble-minded no-smoke-without-a-fire kind I've ever conversed with at any length...)
    Last edited by Miriam; 10-01-2002 at 12:57 AM.

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