"We can stop Hamas, but won't" - on Palestinian self-defence

[Miriam]

Can this be regarded as a formal declaration of war against Israel by the PA? Makes me wonder why the PA should go to such lengths in order to provide legitimation for Israeli attacks against itself and the (unfortunate) population it represents (subjugates?) as to give an interview to a conservative Israeli newspaper with mainly international circulation...

Oct. 1, 2002
PA Gen. Masri: We can stop Hamas, but won't
By MATTHEW GUTMAN
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1033392585136

From news article:

The Palestinian Authority has the strength but not the will to smash terrorist groups and their support networks in the Gaza Strip, a top PA security official said yesterday.

In an exclusive interview with The Jerusalem Post, Brig.-Gen. Muhammad Masri, head of the Political Security Department at the Palestinian General Intelligence Service, said the long- awaited crackdown on Hamas promised by former PA interior minister Abdel Razek Yahya will likely never happen.

[...]

The PA security establishment sees no compelling reason to confront either Hamas, whose popularity is soaring, or the other Palestinian rejectionist groups. For this reason, Masri does not anticipate the ending of terrorist attacks in Israel in the near future.

Taking on Hamas at this juncture, with January's Palestinian elections looming, would be political suicide, added the general. "The Palestinian street shows great support for Hamas and other groups opposing the PA, so we prefer to use other, more democratic methods," he said.

"Capabilities and principle are two different things. Besides ending the occupation, our major goal is not to be labeled collaborators," said Masri.

For this reason, he added, his men are much more actively engaged in protecting themselves -- against both Israel and the opposition groups -- than they are in breaking the terrorist infrastructure, which many Palestinians consider the backbone of the Gaza Strip.

"Why should we be responsible for security in Tel Aviv," asked Masri, "when we have enough trouble protecting our own people against Israel?" For this reason, the GIS is not engaged in roundups of suspects, but is attempting to dialogue with them.

[...]

Hamas political leader Dr. Mahmoud Zahar scoffed at the notion that dialogue could bring an end to the group's "armed resistance." He accused the PA of arriving in the territories and diving headlong into corruption, which eventually alienated the Palestinian populace.

Far from working against Hamas, Zahar noted that it was Fatah men who aided and protected the identity of an injured Muhammad Deif in the immediate aftermath of Israel's botched September 26 assassination attempt on the Hamas military leader.

Or is there something about ME politics that no Westerner will ever understand?

[freethepeeps]

"We have enough men and arms, but not political horizon and no incentive, to enter into bloody conflict with other Palestinians," said Masri from his office at the PA's GIS building just north of Gaza City.

According to PA sources, Fatah, which is affiliated with PA Chairman Yasser Arafat, was a hairsbreadth away from convincing Hamas to agree to a general cease-fire before Israel's assassination of Salah Shehadeh on July 23.

Part of the reason Hamas's support runs so much deeper than that of the PA, noted Masri, is that the organization was active for several years before the PLO entered the territories in 1994. Over the years, its support only grew.

"If 10 years ago it took them a year to recruit a martyr, now they have an overflow of volunteers of all ages and both sexes, to such an extent that they actually have to turn people away," said Masri.

[Miriam]

Originally posted by freethepeeps
[ ... nothing that contradicts my quotes ... ]

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by Miriam [ ... nothing that contradicts my quotes ... ]

Hows about:

According to PA sources, Fatah, which is affiliated with PA Chairman Yasser Arafat, was a hairsbreadth away from convincing Hamas to agree to a general cease-fire before Israel's assassination of Salah Shehadeh on July 23.

One could read that as saying that it suggests that the PA was trying to stop Hamas, but the attempt failed due to circumstances outside of their control. I think that would undermine the whole basis of the thread.

I can see that it would be quite convenient for Israel if the Palestinians started an internal war amongst themselves. However, it is not surprising that they are all focussing against the occupation, is it?

[Miriam]

Originally posted by freethepeeps
Hows about:



One could read that as saying that it suggests that the PA was trying to stop Hamas, but the attempt failed due to circumstances outside of their control. I think that would undermine the whole basis of the thread.

Funny the " head of the Political Security Department at the Palestinian General Intelligence Service" doesn't mention it himself. This "news" have been mostly dismissed as a typical red herring, IIRC.

I can see that it would be quite convenient for Israel if the Palestinians started an internal war amongst themselves. However, it is not surprising that they are all focussing against the occupation, is it?

You may have noticed that the point of the article is that they have not the least intention to "start an internal war", but rather to strenghten the notion that all calls on the PA to control violence will be fruitless. The latter is not exactly in Palestinina interest, as it has benn understood until now.

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by Miriam
Funny the " head of the Political Security Department at the Palestinian General Intelligence Service" doesn't mention it himself. This "news" have been mostly dismissed as a typical red herring, IIRC.
You may have noticed that the point of the article is that they have not the least intention to "start an internal war", but rather to strenghten the notion that all calls on the PA to control violence will be fruitless. The latter is not exactly in Palestinina interest, as it has benn understood until now.

Who dismissed it as a red-herring? Surely not posters on israelforum.com? Certainly wasn't the Journalist who wrote that article.

"Not in Palestinina interest as it has benn undertsood till now".

Ah, so you think it is in their interest to engage in a war amongst themselves while they are being attacked by Israel!

Your idea of self-interest and mine don't match at all.

See, in that situation, I would focus on the external threat first, and then deal with the internal problems later.

But hey, all Israel wants is for Arafat to stop all Palestinian resistance, while they (Israel) carry on brutalising the Palestinian people. Why on earth would Arafat decline such an honourable task?

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by freethepeeps
Ah, so you think it is in their interest to engage in a war amongst themselves while they are being attacked by Israel!

There are ~many~ different forces including Fatah, PFLP, Hamas, Al Aqsa, Hezbollah, Force 17, DFLP, Islamic Jihad, the Tanzim and others. They are not monolithically organized. They receive funding from Arafat who uses that as a tool to keep them at odds with one another in order to avoid a coup d'etat. His former chief henchman who was recently assassinated in Baghdad was one result of this internal friction. It is in Arafat's own interest to stamp out internal threats much more ruthlessly than the 'occupation' because his own people will kill him. The IDF will not.

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by Mediocrates



There are ~many~ different forces including Fatah, PFLP, Hamas, Al Aqsa, Hezbollah, Force 17, DFLP, Islamic Jihad, the Tanzim and others. They are not monolithically organized. They receive funding from Arafat who uses that as a tool to keep them at odds with one another in order to avoid a coup d'etat. His former chief henchman who was recently assassinated in Baghdad was one result of this internal friction. It is in Arafat's own interest to stamp out internal threats much more ruthlessly than the 'occupation' because his own people will kill him. The IDF will not.

Hope this is useful Medio!

[Miriam]

Originally posted by freethepeeps
Who dismissed it as a red-herring? Surely not posters on israelforum.com? Certainly wasn't the Journalist who wrote that article.

Much of the media, I'm in no mood to dig up the links. I remeber an intelligent comment that such plans are inveriably announced as failed the moment Israel launches any kind of military action. No one gets to hear of them beforehand. Nor does the author of the "Jerusalem Post" article make a statement on the credibility of "PA sources".

"Not in Palestinina interest as it has benn undertsood till now".

Ah, so you think it is in their interest to engage in a war amongst themselves while they are being attacked by Israel!

Your idea of self-interest and mine don't match at all.

See, in that situation, I would focus on the external threat first, and then deal with the internal problems later.

I sincerely hope that you will never become a politician.

But hey, all Israel wants is for Arafat to stop all Palestinian resistance, while they (Israel) carry on brutalising the Palestinian people. Why on earth would Arafat decline such an honourable task?

Next time you meet Mr. Arafat, please ask him.

[WarAgainstJihad]

its a cycle israel attacks palestinians they want revenge attack back, cycle continues no one is right or wrong

[minusthejihad]

Originally posted by WarAgainstJihad
its a cycle israel attacks palestinians they want revenge attack back, cycle continues no one is right or wrong

Words of Wisdom, obviously from someone who lacks any advice on a solution. How can you possibly have a name like WarAgainstJihad and say something so profoundly simple?

[NewsGuy]

Today's statements by the Palestinians are further evidence of the Palestinians' lack of willingness and inability to join the civilized world.

Instead, it is a national choice to support the massacres of Innocent Jews and to make terrorism a cornerstone of the murderous Palestinian entity living in and around Israel.

Is it a declaration of war? Not any more than has been made dozens of times previously by the same Palestinian murderers that appropriately represent the primitive and violent Palestinian people.

But it is our responsibility to hear the Palestinians loud and clear, that they will never be suitable neighbors able to live peacefully in the vicinity of any civilized people.

Instead, the Palestinians are collectively guilty of the ongoing Jihad against Israel and against the civilized world.

[eyl]

Originally posted by freethepeeps


Hows about:

According to PA sources, Fatah, which is affiliated with PA Chairman Yasser Arafat, was a hairsbreadth away from convincing Hamas to agree to a general cease-fire before Israel's assassination of Salah Shehadeh on July 23.

"If those Palestinian terror groups under Yassir Arafat’s leadership were ready to end suicide bombings then such an initiative would be hugely welcomed in Israel. But the proposal floated would not have ended attacks on Israeli soldiers, did not bear the signatures of any Palestinian leaders and comes after all too many protestations of peace more honoured in the breach than the observance.

Above all, the ceasefire offer did not have the backing of Hamas, the organisation led by the intended target of Monday night’s attack, Salah Shehade. Given his record, and that of his organisation, the likelihood of any cessation of hostilities from Hamas seems wildly improbable."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...364789,00.html

Two days before the attack, Fatah had published We call on all groups...to increase their armed activities against targets of the military occupation."

You might also look up what Hamas' leaders were saying immediately prior to theattack, e.g.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1027328442525
(note that Yassins's call to stop attack on civilians mentioned in this article said if Israel would pull back completely and release all prisoners, etc., Hamas would "study" stopping attacks.)