Obama's Peace Plan

[dayag]

From Haaretz:

U.S. President Barack Obama has promised Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak that he will present a rough draft of his Middle East peace plan in September, a Mubarak spokesman said following their White House meeting Tuesday.

Suleiman Awad said the two presidents had agreed that time was of the essence in forging an Israeli-Palestinian deal, and a detailed plan with a clear vision of how a final agreement would look was necessary...

source: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1108557.html

[NewsGuy]

Obama has been clear about his peace plan, which is that Hamas, Fatah, and Islamic Jihad will own most of the Jewish homeland and the Israeli population will be ethnically cleansed out of the rest of the land.

Syria, with Iranian backing, will be given the Golan Heights to set up a Russian-provided battery of missiles aimed at what is left of Northern Israel, and when the Iranians have produced nuclear weapons, those will be stationed in South Lebanon and the Golan Heights.

This is pretty much the essence of the Arab "peace plan" that Hussein Obama has adopted.

I wonder why relations between Israel and the Obama administration has gone sour...

[idfBEEP]

I wonder why relations between Israel and the Obama administration has gone sour...

Mainly because Israel won't stop building illegal settlements.

[curlyg]

Obama has been clear about his peace plan, which is that Hamas, Fatah, and Islamic Jihad will own most of the Jewish homeland and the Israeli population will be ethnically cleansed out of the rest of the land.

Really? I must have missed that part of his Cairo speech... or any other speech he's given.

Criticising Obama is fine by me, but what you're doing is just baseless libel. At least wait until the Obama administration's peace plan is announced before you criticise it - I think that's a minimum of reasonableness we can all demand.

[NewsGuy]

Mainly because Israel won't stop building illegal settlements.

No, the problem has never been that Jews have chosen to live in the Jewish homeland. And, certainly, these towns are not "illegal."

The problems between the Obama regime and Israel are happening because on a basic level Obama supports the ethnic cleansing of large parts of the Jewish homeland. That, understandably, is causing tensions to rise in the region.

Really? I must have missed that part of his Cairo speech... or any other speech he's given.

Criticising Obama is fine by me, but what you're doing is just baseless libel. At least wait until the Obama administration's peace plan is announced before you criticise it - I think that's a minimum of reasonableness we can all demand.

I know that it may be difficult for you as an Obama supporter to digest the reality of Obama's ethnic cleansing plan for Jews.

As aliyah correctly wrote, Obama has already announced his support for the Saudi "peace plan", which is really a blueprint for Israeli national suicide.

As you very well know, that plan will result in ethnic cleansing of the West Bank and the Golan Heights, as well as no limits on Iranian missiles being stationed a distance of 4 miles from the heart of Israel's main population centers. This is addition to a Hamas/al Qaeda presence in Gaza and Hezbullah's missiles station on the Lebanese border. To add insult to injury, Obama also supports (or at least won't lift a finger to stop) Iran's nuclear weapons program.

So, I have to wonder why Hussein Obama is working to force Israel's extinction. Is it basic radical leftist philosophy embraced by the Democrats that Jews don't deserve even one single tiny piece of land to live on? Maybe. Is it that Hussein Obama is basically a racist and anti-Semite? Very possibly, considering his ties to Nation of Islam, the reverend Wright, etc., and his undeniably racist domestic agenda.

Then again, it's possible that Obama's cynical plan for Israel is just part of his dismal foreign policy record. Even you can't deny that the Obama administration is among the worst in American history not only on the domestic front, but certainly on the foreign relations front. maybe the Israeli-Arab failure is part of a long string of Obama failures like N. Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Myanmar, Pakistan, Sudan, Russia, etc., etc.

But regardless of Obama's true motivations, it's clear that he is working hard to ensure Israel's demise. And, if fact, he stated clearly during his election campaign that he will take these actions, because he knew that the vast majority of his Democrat voters would be delighted to have an anti-Israel policy. And he was right about that.

If you disagree with this, I'd appreciate your stating some facts rather than whine about "libel."

[Sanket]

As aliyah correctly wrote, Obama has already announced his support for the Saudi "peace plan", which is really a blueprint for Israeli national suicide.

To add insult to injury, Obama also supports (or at least won't life a finger to stop) Iran's nuclear weapons program.

I am confused.

[NewsGuy]

I am confused.

life should be lift. Just a typo.

Obama won't lift a finger to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program.

[curlyg]

I know that it may be difficult for you as an Obama supporter to digest the reality of Obama's ethnic cleansing plan for Jews.

I know this may be difficult for you as a knee-jerk anti-Obamaist, but not everyone who disagrees with you supports Obama. In fact I couldn't care less about Obama except insofar as his policies affect Israel.

As aliyah correctly wrote, Obama has already announced his support for the Saudi "peace plan", which is really a blueprint for Israeli national suicide.

(1) The Saudi initiative is not a blueprint for Israeli national suicide. The only real possibility for Israeli national suicide is having an Arab majority within the borders of the Jewish state. The Saudi initiative does not explicitly address the right of return - it is sufficiently ambiguous to allow for a bilaterally negotiated compromise between the Israelis and Palestinians. By contrast, the indefinite continuation of the settlement enterprise certainly amounts to Israeli national suicide.

(2) Obama has supported the Saudi Initiative, but has also called for it to be amended to include a more concrete timetable for normalisation with Israel and a rejection of the right of return - facts which you decided to conveniently overlook.

As you very well know, that plan will result in ethnic cleansing of the West Bank and the Golan Heights, as well as no limits on Iranian missiles being stationed a distance of 4 miles from the heart of Israel's main population centers.

As you very well know, this is nonsense. The plan does not exist in a vacuum - your attempt to interpret it literally word for word without any context is ridiculous. It does indeed call for a withdrawal from all occupied territories - but if the Israelis and Palestinians agreed to a land swap, you think the Saudis would reject it simply because they did not include an allowance for such a scenario in the initial document outlining their initiative? You think if Israel and Syria decided to make some adjustments to the border on the Golan they would not accept it for the same reason? Don't be absurd.

This is addition to a Hamas/al Qaeda presence in Gaza and Hezbullah's missiles station on the Lebanese border. To add insult to injury, Obama also supports (or at least won't lift a finger to stop) Iran's nuclear weapons program.

This has been an American approach not unique to Obama - Bush also objected to an Israeli military strike on Iran and America clearly had no intention of doing the dirty work itself.

So, I have to wonder why Hussein Obama is working to force Israel's extinction.

Simply put? He's not. A withdrawal to the 1967 boundaries does not equal Israel's extinction.

Is it basic radical leftist philosophy embraced by the Democrats that Jews don't deserve even one single tiny piece of land to live on?

Really? So the fact that Obama supports an Israel within the pre-67 borders = Jews deserve no land? There's a sound argument!

If you disagree with this, I'd appreciate your stating some facts rather than whine about "libel."

And I'd appreciate it if before you criticise a certain peace proposal, you wait for it to come into existence. That seems like the rational thing to do - but going by your post, I'm not sure you care so much about rationality.

[NewsGuy]

I know this may be difficult for you as a knee-jerk anti-Obamaist, but not everyone who disagrees with you supports Obama. In fact I couldn't care less about Obama except insofar as his policies affect Israel.

I would consider someone like yourself who justifies Obama's anti-Israel positions as an Obama supporter. Are you ashamed of that?

(1) The Saudi initiative is not a blueprint for Israeli national suicide. The only real possibility for Israeli national suicide is having an Arab majority within the borders of the Jewish state. The Saudi initiative does not explicitly address the right of return - it is sufficiently ambiguous to allow for a bilaterally negotiated compromise between the Israelis and Palestinians. By contrast, the indefinite continuation of the settlement enterprise certainly amounts to Israeli national suicide

.
That's a mixture of fact and fiction.

The Saudi "peace plan" is of course national suicide for Israel for the reasons I already mentioned earlier. The whole purpose of the Saudi plan, which is supported by Obama, is to ethnically cleanse large parts of the Jewish homeland from a Jewish presence, and to position Muslim terrorists' conventional and unconventional weapons within a few miles of Israel's main population centers.

Maybe for you that's a solution (or even the Final Solution) for Israel, but for most others who believe that Jews have the right to live in the Jewish homeland, the Obama-Saudi plan is suicidal for Israel.

However, it's true that allowing an enormous hostile Muslim population to exist within Israel's borders is very problematic. So, in any peace plan that stands a chance of succeeding, there needs to be a provision for dismantling Muslim settlements in places like Haifa, Yaffo, Jerusalem, etc., and sending the Muslim population back to their own homelands to live in peace and dignity with their Arab brothers.

(2) Obama has supported the Saudi Initiative, but has also called for it to be amended to include a more concrete timetable for normalisation with Israel and a rejection of the right of return - facts which you decided to conveniently overlook.

Normalization? With all due respect, that's a cynical joke. As you very well know, the Muslim world despises Jews and Christians, and there will never be any normalization dictated by a piece of paper. Just look at the shining example of the "warm" peace we got from Egypt and Jordan.

As you very well know, this is nonsense. The plan does not exist in a vacuum - your attempt to interpret it literally word for word without any context is ridiculous. It does indeed call for a withdrawal from all occupied territories - but if the Israelis and Palestinians agreed to a land swap, you think the Saudis would reject it simply because they did not include an allowance for such a scenario in the initial document outlining their initiative? You think if Israel and Syria decided to make some adjustments to the border on the Golan they would not accept it for the same reason? Don't be absurd.

It's actually you being absurd and talking about nonsense. All international agreements hinge on the exact letter of the agreement, not on wishful thinking. I'm not sure what you're talking about with your imaginary exchange of land. That's not part of the Saudi/Obama plan.

The fact that Syrian and the Palestinians could, theoretically decide to work out some other arrangement is true, but in reality Syria has refused to even do Israel the great favor of sitting at the negotiation table and has instead destabilized Lebanon and transported tens-of-thousands of missiles from Iran to Hezbullah, which are now aimed at Israel and capable of hitting Tel Aviv.

So, when I hear about Leftist dreams of some theoretical scenarios, I have to just shake my head and wonder where they have been for the past several decades.

Simply put? He's not. A withdrawal to the 1967 boundaries does not equal Israel's extinction.

Really? So the fact that Obama supports an Israel within the pre-67 borders = Jews deserve no land? There's a sound argument!

That's right. The 1967 borders have always brought Israel to the brink of destruction, which is exactly why the Muslim world and Obama are insisting on them now. Since 1967, there has been one war after another, because the Arabs understand that those border leave Israel vulnerable to Arab attack. Considering the facts of history, the 1967 borders are not something that can be acceptable to Israel, as much as Obama, the Muslims, and Israel's Leftist enemies would love it.

[Aliyah1995]

Expecting Israel to withdraw to the 1949 armistice lines to make way for a "Palestinian" Judenrein State is pretty much what Newsguy states in his above post. Has Obama not requested that even natural growth in Jewish communities over the 1949 armistice line must stop? One does not have to be sophisticated to know that forbidding natural growth basically spells death for a community, so while Obama has not outright stated his intentions in Newguy's words, so far he might as well have.

[NewsGuy]

Expecting Israel to withdraw to the 1949 armistice lines to make way for a "Palestinian" Judenrein State is pretty much what Newsguy states in his above post. Has Obama not requested that even natural growth in Jewish communities over the 1949 armistice line must stop? One does not have to be sophisticated to know that forbidding natural growth basically spells death for a community, so while Obama has not outright stated his intentions in Newguy's words, so far he might as well have.

Well said.

[Sanket]

So Obama is giving you options. He is a nice guy...

[bararallu]

So, in any peace plan that stands a chance of succeeding, there needs to be a provision for dismantling Muslim settlements in places like Haifa, Yaffo, Jerusalem, etc., and sending the Muslim population back to their own homelands to live in peace and dignity with their Arab brothers.

Absolutely. No parity, no deals.

[Aliyah1995]

Even Abba Eban, who was often refered to as the one who knew how to surrender in nine languages, refered to the 1967 borders as the "Aushwitz borders".

[Mediocrates]

Obama's plan if there is one sounds like containment. As Bernard Lewis said "Islam has bloody borders" which is a statement of reality more than it is a statement of moral drive. I think that if he, like ALL of his predecessors, can walk away with something like a Palestinian state, at least on paper, then he will be able to proceed without the baggage of....."The biggest problem in the world etc etc etc is the Palestinian conflict, it lies at the root of... etc etc etc"

It should be clear to anyone that the Palestinians are never going to have a state that is MORE functional MORE democratic MORE western-like than ALL of the OTHER Arab states. That's just silly talk. At best it will be a broken thugocracy, ruled by gangs, mullahs, monsters and tyrants. Just like all the others.

And to be honest, no one cares, except that their daily round of mayhem and failure will harm my beloved Jews. Other than that, they, like the Libyans, Algerians, Egyptians, Yemenis, Saudis, Syrians, Lebanese, Sudanese, Iraqis, Iranians and a host of others will spasm in the muck like dying beasts and I wish them well with all of that.