Health Care Bill To Effect American Citizens Abroad

**Aliyah1995** · 11-11-2009, 10:14 PM

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1127383.html

Israeli Americans blast 'unjust' U.S. health care reform bill
By Cnaan Liphshiz , Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: AACI, Israel news

The organization representing North Americans in Israel has called on its members to fight a U.S. health care bill that would require U.S. citizens living abroad to pay $750 annually for insurance they may not be able to use.

The Association of Americans and Canadians in Israel (AACI) informed its members Tuesday that the controversial bill, which the Senate proposed as part of President Barack Obama's massive health care overhaul, contains a $750 per annum excise tax for all U.S. citizens living outside the U.S.

However, "the proposed U.S. insurance plans will not cover medical expenses outside the U.S.," the Association said.
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The exact details of the proposal and how it would be legislated are not entirely clear at this point, said David London, the Association's executive director.

London added that his organization's opposition to this element of the bill "should not be seen" as opposition to the reform plan in general.

"This doesn't mean that AACI, which is a non-partisan organization, is speaking against the new health policy," he said. "We're not taking a stand on it. We're concerned that this bill could be unjust to U.S. citizens living in Israel."

According to London, the House of Representatives has passed a similar bill, but it exempted citizens residing abroad from the excise tax. "This is why we're only appealing to senators to make the same amendment," London added.

"Unless we are exempted by both the House bill and the Senate bill, we could be taxed when the two bills are merged," the Association said in an online bulletin to its members.

AACI also enclosed a sample letter of complaint, and the names and fax numbers of every U.S. Senator.

**I am David 2** · 11-11-2009, 10:22 PM

In a similar vein, the entire bill is predicated on the unjustified moral belief that people are obligated to pay for the health care of individuals who eat and smoke themselves to near death. Essentially, asking people to pay money for something that doesn't benefit them, directly or indirectly. I have no problem contributing tax towards a health care plan that covers accidents, rare diseases, and the youth, but it's highly immoral to force people to help those who refuse to help themselves.

This is the stupidest bill ever. No it's not socialist, nor is that relevant. It just does nothing to address the causes of the high costs for health care, and nothing to make the system more efficient via technology and reduce administrative overhead.

GratefulFred · 11-11-2009, 10:58 PM

Well I'm writing myself a $10K cancer plan for $45/month on my family just in case.

This doesn't just effect Amerricans in Israel. There are plenty of US citizens living abroad.

**Aliyah1995** · 11-12-2009, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by GratefulFred

Well I'm writing myself a $10K cancer plan for $45/month on my family just in case.

This doesn't just effect Amerricans in Israel. There are plenty of US citizens living abroad.

There is a difference between an American merely living abroad, who are not citizens of the country they are living in (for example, Yeshiva students in Israel who are here for a year or two or American doing business for a couple of years in Europe etc. etc.) versus American citizens who are also citizens of the country that they are living in (like you, GratefulFred and myself).

That you are deciding to write the above mentioned plan for yourself and your family as well and good, but the key word is decide, not being forced into it.

Why should my family and I be forced to shell out $3,000 a year (my wife, myself and our 2 kids multiplies by $750) for a plan we will NEVER use, when we are already paying Bituach Leumi out of my salary, plus extra so we have the "mashlim" plan?

It would be one thing if this plan would apply to health services in Israel and we had the choice of choosing this plan, instead of the one offered by the Israeli health plan, but neither is the case.

Aside from the fact that this is outright unfair, I have another question:

Does this mean that a family of four living in America will be paying $3,000 (or $250 a month) for health care? If so, how does this help poor families who can't even afford half of that now (and this is assuming they will not be paying more than those of us living abroad will)? And if those living in America will be paying less than those of us living abroad are paying (for something we can't even use), then this is even more retarded

GratefulFred · 11-12-2009, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Aliyah1995

There is a difference between an American merely living abroad, who are not citizens of the country they are living in (for example, Yeshiva students in Israel who are here for a year or two or American doing business for a couple of years in Europe etc. etc.) versus American citizens who are also citizens of the country that they are living in (like you, GratefulFred and myself).

That you are deciding to write the above mentioned plan for yourself and your family as well and good, but the key word is decide, not being forced into it.

Why should my family and I be forced to shell out $3,000 a year (my wife, myself and our 2 kids multiplies by $750) for a plan we will NEVER use, when we are already paying Bituach Leumi out of my salary, plus extra so we have the "mashlim" plan?

It would be one thing if this plan would apply to health services in Israel and we had the choice of choosing this plan, instead of the one offered by the Israeli health plan, but neither is the case.

Aside from the fact that this is outright unfair, I have another question:

Does this mean that a family of four living in America will be paying $3,000 (or $250 a month) for health care? If so, how does this help poor families who can't even afford half of that now (and this is assuming they will not be paying more than those of us living abroad will)? And if those living in America will be paying less than those of us living abroad are paying (for something we can't even use), then this is even more retarded

I am no tax expert but these things usually will show up when you fill out a 1040. If residing overseas brings you to fill out one part related to the penalty, we are screwed. If it asks if you have health insurance and you get to deduct for it, there may be creative ways around it. If the Senate passes the healthcare reform act and exempts us we are all in the clear.

Nothing will go into effect for 2010 so we have some time even if it gets thrown into the mix.

I tried to fax my Florida senator (bad fax number) and I would suggest you do so for wherever you lived prior.

I spoke to a company that puts out international and gap based insurance products and filled him in on a potential opportunity should things go bad. It's too early to tell what and if something will happen. Plenty of time to get ready and maybe find a loophole.

I don't plan to pay $750 times 5 very quickly.

I'll be totally on top of this.

**Aliyah1995** · 11-13-2009, 04:13 AM

Well, it seems like there might be hope just yet:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1127652.html

U.S. health care tax on ex-pats unlikely to pass, say accountants
By Raphael Ahren
Tags: U.S. healthcare tax

A controversial clause in the U.S. healthcare overhaul, charging Americans living abroad a $750 annual tax for insurance they might never use, is unlikely to pass, said local accountants and activists yesterday.

On Tuesday, Americans in Israel were up in arms about the clause, as the Associations of Americans and Canadians in Israel called on people to protest the bill, which is being discussed in the Senate as part of U.S. President Barack Obama's health care reform.

Under the current formulation of the Senate bill, every American who doesn't buy into a health care plan in the United States would be charged an annual $750 excise tax.
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The copy of the bill passed by the House of Representatives excludes citizens living overseas. However, some people fear the merged bill may wind up including the tax.

AACI wants to see the Senate include the same exemption as the House of Representatives, explained Yitzhak Heimowitz, a member of AACI's legal commission.

"If that doesn't work, it's not too late, because in the conference committee [merging the two chambers' bills] efforts can still be made to change the Senate version. There is quite a good chance that the bill would be changed."

"In the House bill, the excise tax was squashed and I am assuming it will be squashed in the Senate too," said Joanne Yaron, chairwoman of Democrats Abroad-Israel. It was due to Democrats Abroad that the House removed the tax from its bill, she said.

"We have people who are very close to the issue and keeping their eyes open," Yaron said. "If something like that gets into the [Senate] bill, I am fairly certain they will come forward again and point out the reasons why it can't be levied on oversea Americans. It simply wouldn't be fair."

"It just doesn't seem possible that the bill would pass with an excise tax," she continued. "Even if the bill isn't squashed in the Senate, it would then get to the president's desk, and I don't think he'd accept it."

However, that doesn't mean Americans in Israel should sit by passively, she said. "I don't think it's a bad idea writing to your senators," she said, referring to AACI's initiative. "I may write to mine."

**Aliyah1995** · 11-14-2009, 10:03 PM

There seems to be yet more good news:

a) The excise tax would only go into effect from January 1, 2013, so we have another three years to lobby, kick, scream, and whatever else it takes to protest this discriminatory law against those of us living overseas who cannot use it.

b) The limit per taxpayer unit (i.e. family) would be $1,500 a year, so even a family of four like mine or five like yours, GratefulFred, would not be able to be taxed more than $1,500 per year. This is a far cry from $3,000 in my case, $3,750 in your (GratefulFred's) case, or $8,750 in my immediate surpervisor's case, but still not something I want to pay, as even $1,500 a year is a lot of money to throw away on something I can't or won't use.

Below is a link, which give the full bill in detail (at least as of now; this can change on a daily basis, but at least of of now, this is what it is):

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/11382446...ll---Full-Text

The pages dealing with the excise tax are on 31 & 32.