The Illegal Settlers

[danholo]

I am not against settlemets. At least those that are cities or towns, that act as suburbs or were settled before 1948. There are those illegal settlement outposts though that really annoy me, since they just give Jews a bad name and aren't helping the situation at all. Also, people tend to familiarize all settlements as the caravan outposts, which wacko Jews set up in areas to annoy its Palestinian population.

Today, 6 Palestinian families had to abandon their homes because of Jewish violence and harrassment.

From news article:

YANUN, West Bank - Sobbing as they filled a truck with furniture and piled themselves into dusty cars, six Palestinian families set out from this tiny village of old stone houses, leaving it completely abandoned.

Members of the Sobih clan said they were fleeing the village -- once home to 25 families -- after four years of worsening attacks by Jewish settlers, who have set up illegal outposts on nearby hilltops. The attacks have become increasingly frequent in recent months, they said.

Whole article at Jerusalem Post

I know Israel has started taking steps at dismantling these nuisances, but I think the job is taking too long! At least these violent people should be moved else where, since Arabs, the non-violent ones, are being annoyed by these fools who think they are "defending Eretz Israel". Well, I beg to differ. These settlers only give Jews a bad name, while abandoning the Jewish values I know stooping to animal like behavior. They are really not affecting the situation that much, but are disrupting the lives of people, who are peaceful and living their normal lives. Settler harassment does happen, at least in Hebron and now in Yanun. I've also heard of some other minor incidents.

All I want to say is that, the Israeli government should take faster measures in dismantling these "bad" settlements and remove their unpeaceful inhabitants.

[IamPalestine]

Originally posted by danholo
I am not against settlemets. At least those that are cities or towns, that act as suburbs or were settled before 1948. There are those illegal settlement outposts though that really annoy me, since they just give Jews a bad name and aren't helping the situation at all. Also, people tend to familiarize all settlements as the caravan outposts, which wacko Jews set up in areas to annoy its Palestinian population.

Today, 6 Palestinian families had to abandon their homes because of Jewish violence and harrassment.

From news article:

YANUN, West Bank - Sobbing as they filled a truck with furniture and piled themselves into dusty cars, six Palestinian families set out from this tiny village of old stone houses, leaving it completely abandoned.

Members of the Sobih clan said they were fleeing the village -- once home to 25 families -- after four years of worsening attacks by Jewish settlers, who have set up illegal outposts on nearby hilltops. The attacks have become increasingly frequent in recent months, they said.

Whole article at Jerusalem Post

I know Israel has started taking steps at dismantling these nuisances, but I think the job is taking too long! At least these violent people should be moved else where, since Arabs, the non-violent ones, are being annoyed by these fools who think they are "defending Eretz Israel". Well, I beg to differ. These settlers only give Jews a bad name, while abandoning the Jewish values I know stooping to animal like behavior. They are really not affecting the situation that much, but are disrupting the lives of people, who are peaceful and living their normal lives. Settler harassment does happen, at least in Hebron and now in Yanun. I've also heard of some other minor incidents.

All I want to say is that, the Israeli government should take faster measures in dismantling these "bad" settlements and remove their unpeaceful inhabitants.

I must say, you make a lot of sense, but you keep saying peaceful and unpeaceful settlers.
Although I think there are people living in those settlements who do not like conflicts, but the question is why are they there? If they keep living in these settlements which all are built illegally over confiscated Palestinian land, then they're only asking for conflict. And I am talking about those colonies in the West Bank And Gaza and Jerusalem. All the settlements should be dismantled, there are no legal ones, they are all illegal and a major setback for any peace deals.

[Miriam]

Originally posted by danholo
Settler harassment does happen, at least in Hebron and now in Yanun. I've also heard of some other minor incidents.

All I want to say is that, the Israeli government should take faster measures in dismantling these "bad" settlements and remove their unpeaceful inhabitants.

There are settlers and settlers. Hebron is (in)famous for some really aggressive ones (mind you, not all of Hebron settlers are that nasty...) - which is especially unfortunate, since it is one of the oldest Jewish cities in the vicinity. Its Jewish community was driven out in an Arab pogrom in the 20ies(?). Truth be said, many Jews survived it b/c they were shielded by Hebron Arabs. I've recently heard about an association of the members of the "original" Hebron Jewish community protesting against the current violent approach.

[IamPalestine]

Originally posted by Miriam
There are settlers and settlers. Hebron is (in)famous for some really aggressive ones (mind you, not all of Hebron settlers are that nasty...) - which is especially unfortunate, since it is one of the oldest Jewish cities in the vicinity. Its Jewish community was driven out in an Arab pogrom in the 20ies(?). Truth be said, many Jews it survived b/c they were shielded by Hebron Arabs. I've recently heard about an association of the members of the "original" Hebron Jewish community protesting against the current aggressive approach.

My grandfather and his son, my father, used to tell me stories about Jews and Arabs living in Palestine, side by side as neigbors, trading visiting..etc. It is not strange to me to hear stories of Jews and Arabs helping each other. It all changed however, according to my father, when the Zionists came in the picture. What a sad, sad life this is.

[Miriam]

Originally posted by IamPalestine

My grandfather and his son, my father, used to tell me stories about Jews and Arabs living in Palestine, side by side as neigbors, trading visiting..etc. It is not strange to me to hear stories of Jews and Arabs helping each other. It all changed however, according to my father, when the Zionists came in the picture. What a sad, sad life this is.

May I ask where exactly are you from?

[IamPalestine]

Originally posted by Miriam
May I ask where exactly are you from?

I am from Jenin Miriam, and you?

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by IamPalestine
If they keep living in these settlements which all are built illegally over confiscated Palestinian land, then they're only asking for conflict.

No, the Israeli suburbs you are referring to are not illegal. They are, in fact, legal and a vital part of the Jewish homeland.

UN Resolution 242 guarantees Israel "secure" borders, and calls for the parties to arrive at a mutually agreed settlement.

Based on repeated Arab attempts to ethically cleanse the Jewish people from the Jewish homeland, we can see that Judea, Samaria and Northern Gaza are vital to fulfill the UN resolution to provide for Israel's security needs.

In reality, though, if ever Palestinian and other global Islamic terrorism is defeated, and there is a peace agreement, chances are that some Israeli suburbs will be handed over to the Arabs, unfortunately. But on the other hand, Israel must insist that Arab settlements in Israel be dismantled at the same time.

Let's remember that currently more than a million Arabs are occupying large parts of Israel in places like Jaffa, Jerusalem, Haifa, Beer Sheva and in many other areas that are not at all under dispute.

[elke]

Originally posted by IamPalestine

My grandfather and his son, my father, used to tell me stories about Jews and Arabs living in Palestine, side by side as neigbors, trading visiting..etc. It is not strange to me to hear stories of Jews and Arabs helping each other. It all changed however, according to my father, when the Zionists came in the picture. What a sad, sad life this is.

But by the time your grandfather and father were alive, Zionists have been there for a while! Chances are, those Jews your grandfather and father were trading and visiting with were Zionists. Sounds like it wasn't "Zionism" that spoiled it but something else... incitement, maybe?

Can't we start over though? Can't we get beyond the mudslinging, begin a fruitful discussion and ultimately, friendship? Can't we acknowledge that both sides have legitimate gripes and talk about them instead of shooting?

[Layton]

Newsguy:

Dont tell me you dont see any difference between settlers (who purposely move into other peoples land with the explicit purpose of making it part of some sort of Great Israel while ignoring the rights of people allready living there) and ordinary arab Israeli citizens.

Dont get me wrong though, I believe noone should be forced out. If the Jewish settlers living in the WB/Gaza want to continue living there then they should be allowed to do so, as law-abiding Palestinians citizens with no more (or less) privileges then the common Palestinian. If they dont like that.. tough luck.

[Mediocrates]

"Other peoples land" is a relative statement. You paint it like a dense crowded city block whereas in fact the West Bank is largely a blank expanse of brown nothing. 15,000 Jews here or there have displaced no one. 220,000 haven't either.

[sharonbn]

Ynet headline reads “45 injured in battle over Gilad Farm”
30 Policemen, Policewomen and soldiers and 15 settlers were injured in a military attempt to evacuate the illegal settlement Gilad Farm.
This is the first manned settlement scheduled for evacuation, after defense minister Ben-Eliezer already dismantled 20 unmanned settlements.

The operation begun Saturday evening. During the weekend, hundreds of settlers poured into the hill. 1000 settlers are reported to “defend” the place vs. an equal number of police and military forces. As the forces moved into the place, violent clashes erupted between the settlers and soldiers. News reporters were also attacked. This went on well into the night.

PM Sharon and Ben Eliezer gave a statement supporting the operation and condemning the violent opposition of the settlers.

Personally, I believe this is yet another example of the settlers’ legitimacy of violence and approach of “the ends justifies the means” – to the point of raising a hand on their own kind.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by sharonbn
Ynet headline reads “45 injured in battle over Gilad Farm”
30 Policemen, Policewomen and soldiers and 15 settlers were injured in a military attempt to evacuate the illegal settlement Gilad Farm.

This is a very serious problem regarding the violence you describe.

There needs to be an agreement between the government and those wishing to settle the land, as to which suburbs exactly will the government support and which it will not.

If Israelis want to settle in areas not supported by the government, then they should do so at their own peril and the government has no obligation to provide military protection.

On the other hand, it seems to me that the people of Israel have voted for a government that does support settlement in all areas of the Jewish homeland, and the current need for a coalition is at the root of the problem. Looks like Labour is forcing he evacuation of these suburbs.

I look forward to the next elections, because hopefully there will be no need for a coalition that has such different opinions on the settlement issue.

On a related note, I think it's important to mention that the Gilad Farm is named after Gilad Zar, a member of the Shomron security council and victim of brutal Palestinian terrorism. The entire Farm was set up as a reaction to Palestinian terrorism and a message to the Arab mass murderers that every time they murder an Israeli, there will be a new suburb built at the location of the terror attack. It is a valid message, and one that all Israelis and decent people worldwide should support.

While we hear the typical Arab lies that terrorism is as a result of settlement activity, we can see that the truth is exactly the opposite -- Palestinian terrorism is causing increased settlement activity.

[Layton]

"Other peoples land" is a relative statement. You paint it like a dense crowded city block whereas in fact the West Bank is largely a blank expanse of brown nothing. 15,000 Jews here or there have displaced no one. 220,000 haven't either.

Actually.. the West Bank has a population density of 135 inhabitants/km, thats not empty. The US for eg. has a density of 27.2 inhabitants/Km and i never heard anyone talking about that country as a "blank expanse of brown nothing" that deserves to be settled since its empty anyway.

[elke]

Originally posted by Layton


Actually.. the West Bank has a population density of 135 inhabitants/km, thats not empty. The US for eg. has a density of 27.2 inhabitants/Km and i never heard anyone talking about that country as a "blank expanse of brown nothing" that deserves to be settled since its empty anyway.

Have you ever been in the Western US? Like Montana, North Dakota, Arizona, etc? Those are some of the bigger states of the US, too, and they are generally severely underpopulated. You can go for miles without even seeing another vehicle!

You are again comparing apples and oranges.

[Layton]

My apologies i may have made a mistake. According to
http://www.photius.com/wfb1999/ranki...density_0.html the population density (persons per sq km) is the following:

Gaza Strip 3,090/km
West Bank 285/km
Israel 282/km

Now compare that to a couple of other countries:
United Kingdom 244/km
Belgium 336/km
Italy 192/km
China 133/km
United States 29/km

Are any of these countries empty? I dont think so... and neither is the West Bank. So Mediocrates, you are plain wrong when you say the West Bank is empty. The population density is even higher then the UK...

Have you ever been in the Western US? Like Montana, North Dakota, Arizona, etc? Those are some of the bigger states of the US, too, and they are generally severely underpopulated. You can go for miles without even seeing another vehicle!

So? Do you mean since theres a lot of underpopulated area inside the US, this 'empty' land should be taken over by other groups?

Oh and look at the beginning of my post if you think the WB cant be compared to the US.