My letter to the President (and others)... A Palestine in the Sinai

[MGB8]

Dear Mr. President:

Please indulge me the opportunity to present a, to my
knowledge, novel proposal on the Israeli-Palestinian
Arab conflict.

A Palestinian State made up of Gaza and 2/3 of the
Sinai Penninsula, with the Arab areas of the West Bank
continuing a policy of limited local soveriegnty.

We have two competing interests here:

1. The interest of the Palestinian Arabs to have "a
home of their own." National self-determination, etc.


2. The security interests of Israel.

In the current paradigm, these interests are virtually
mutually exclusive.

But they don't have to be.

The Sinai is not a heavily populated area. It is
already "legally" demiliterized, if not factually so.
It is contiguous with Gaza, where the majority of
Palestinian Arabs live.

If Egypt could be convinced (ie. money and weapons),
for the good of their Arab Bretheren, to, along with
Israel, give some of the land they control, a large
part of the Sinai, over to a new (and stricktly
monitored from the outside) Palestinian State, the
Arabs there would at least have a state to call their
own, even if parts of the land that they want so badly
would not be included.

This would have several tactical benefits.

(1) it would call the Palestinians on their bluff -
what do they want more, a national homeland, or the
destruction of Israel.

(2) Palestinian refugees in other nations would have a
place to return to.

(3) Egypt, which has its own problem with Muslim
Fundamentalists, would have a place to deport them to.

(4) It would allow the US and World to keep tabs on
some of the most dangerous international terrorists by
having many of them in one, limited, space.

(5) It would also call the Arab nations bluff as too
how much they want to help their brothers.

(6) It would avoid the issue of Israeli strategic Self
defense, as the West Bank is the major issue there,
Gaza is virtually unimportant.

(7) It would prevent Sharon from making more
incursions into Gaza, which raise tensions among our
Arab friends.

As to the West Bank, certainly Palestinains who wished
to move to the new state of Palestine would have an
Israel like "right of return."

The rest of the Area would be annexed by Israel,
subject to Oslo like autonomy provisions over the
mainly Arab areas of the West Bank, and Israel
offering citizenship to all Arab residents who wish to
remain in Israel as opposed to relocate to Palestine
(certainly Israel would offer economic incentives to
move...including compensation for land at above market
rates...and certainly the world would pledge its aid
to helping build this new state and giving each new
family its version of "four acres and a mule.")

Please consider this proposal.

It would be a bold move by the United States, and one
that might have some hope of peacefully resolving the
conflict there.

Yours,

[Miriam]

You know, it might be an idea... I do think, however, that you are not the first one to come up with it.

[IlyaFurman]

What if they said that the "jewish people" should go into sinai? do you think they will accept it? no, come on, its all about jerusalem, they are fighting for al aqsa mosque and jerusalem, thats their main prize, nothing else, the day they accept to leave that area is the day hell freezes over.

[MGB8]

There's a BIG diference.

We HAVE an established state. They WANT one.

Moreover, the Jewish ties to Jerusalem are MUCH MUCH stronger than Arab ties - religiously, historically, and politically.

The bottom line is that the Arabs who define themselves as "Palestinians" have to choose - what do they want more: self sovereignty or a certain parcell of land.

Israel has NO OBLIGATION to give back an inch of land taken in a war...a defensive war, no less.

Israel has TONS OF REASONS NOT to give back any of the West Bank - mostly because the the West Bank is very close to ALL of Israel's major population centers and an attack through it could bifurcate the country (cut it in half) making it much much harder to fight a war - as forces in the north could not easily get to the south if they were needed there because they'd have to pass through enemy forces.

Israel SHOULD NOT give up the West bank (or the Golan) because that would be irresponsible to its people - Syria and Lebanon are still technically at war with us, more than technically because Lebanese militants fire into israel and Syria Arms terrorsits.

We are at war with Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen, Qatar, Iraq and Iran.

Even the countries we are "at peace" with, if you look at Government sponsored media, are virulently anti-semetic (not anti-Israeli mind you, though they are, but pure-anti-jewish hatred - elders of zion...)

However, even though Israel should not give back the West Bank, if there are a group of Arabs who want there own state, and there is land available for them to accomplish that goal, then why not? Gaza could be the start, and the Sinai is territorally contiguous with Gaza, making it a strong choice, especially since its not very inhabitted.

Originally posted by IlyaFurman
What if they said that the "jewish people" should go into sinai? do you think they will accept it? no, come on, its all about jerusalem, they are fighting for al aqsa mosque and jerusalem, thats their main prize, nothing else, the day they accept to leave that area is the day hell freezes over.

[Teacake]

Originally posted by IlyaFurman
What if they said that the "jewish people" should go into sinai?-

I think you mean... return Sinai since that was land Israel already gave up for a deal.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by IlyaFurman
What if they said that the "jewish people" should go into sinai?

The better question might be 'what if they said that the Jewihs people should go back to their historical homeland?'

Actually, that is of course what the Jewish people are doing in Israel.

... its all about jerusalem, they are fighting for al aqsa mosque and jerusalem, thats their main prize, nothing else, the day they accept to leave that area is the day hell freezes over.

I don't think it's about Jerusalem and the al Aqsa mosque. It's about the Arab and Islamic fantasy of ethically cleansing the Mideast (and the world) from all non-Muslims.

[Teacake]

The better question might be 'what if they said that the Jewihs people should go back to their historical homeland?'

Which is originally 5 times larger than what Israel is today.... yeah I like that!

[whereamigod]

Liek it all you want, it's never going to happen. This proposal is meaningless. Under this proposal the Palestinians lose more then they gain. The only agreement that can be made is for the full return of land to the Palestinian people. Like it or not, thats it.

[IlyaFurman]

Originally posted by NewsGuy
The better question might be 'what if they said that the Jewihs people should go back to their historical homeland?'

I strongly disagree with that logic, what if we give back Rome and whole of italy to the etruscans the original inhabitants of Italy, what if we give back the US to the native americans, that is not the right logic.

But Israel so far has fough for the land it has acquired, so it should keep it, but it should respect the paletianians and give them their homeland also. Just west bank and gaza.

[MGB8]

Israel cannot give back the West Bank.

There is no such thing as a Palestinian Ethnicity, it is a not a coherent group.

There is no such thing as "Palestinian land" or a "Palestinian homeland."

When Rome coined the word "Palestine" it was simply to rename the area of JUDEA as punishment to the Jews for revolting.

There has NEVER been a "Palestine" aside from that. Jordan controlled the land between 48 and 67.

Israel should give the Arabs of Greater ISRAEL an ultimatum...if you want a state without Jewish Sovereignty, we'll work to get you one on Borders that are ACCEPTABLE TO ISRAEL (defensively) can live with.

If you want war, we will give you WAR....no holds barred war, your "freedom fighters" against our military.

If it is merely a conflict of two different claims on the same land (which, in my opinion, to the majority of Palestinians it is) then let the conflict be fought out. Annihilate until they surrender and realize that their aims are impossible.

I am all for sovereignty for those who want it, but it may not come on their terms. I am more for Israeli saftey and security, and giving up the west bank militarily is simply an unsafe and foolish thing to do.

If the Arabs want war, let them live, excuse me, die, with the consequences. I will go home and pick up a gun myself.

[IlyaFurman]

Originally posted by MGB8
Israel cannot give back the West Bank.

There is no such thing as a Palestinian Ethnicity, it is a not a coherent group.

There is no such thing as "Palestinian land" or a "Palestinian homeland."

If the Arabs want war, let them live, excuse me, die, with the consequences. I will go home and pick up a gun myself.

Woudnt that be wonderful if Israel could keep the west bank? Very Unlikely.

Well thats like saying there is no such thing as "Israeli Land" or "Israeli Homeland"

The Arabs call it an Arab Land not a Palestian land, And yes it was an Arab land, you said there was no palstine but you choose to say "Palestine land" to support your point.

And that would be a really bad idea to go Muslims vs Jews, really really really bad, Do you think Israel can take on all the Muslims?

Give me a break.

[Mediocrates]

so what that amounts to is this

"For Jews, might makes right is racist but for the Arabs, might makes right is simply the way it is."


Your mother must be so proud.

[IlyaFurman]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
so what that amounts to is this

"For Jews, might makes right is racist but for the Arabs, might makes right is simply the way it is."


Your mother must be so proud.

huh?

[Mediocrates]

I get the distinct sense that on the one hand you think the might makes right argument whether it is applied appropriately or not is racist while, implicitly, when talking about arabs the same argument becomes one of "eh, thats the way they are, nothing to do~"

If I'm wrong I'm sorry.

[L@mplighterM]

How’s this for a thought?

Israel threatens to declare war against Jordan and Egypt unless they take back whatever part of the WB and GS that they don’t require too establish secure borders.

Jordan and Egypt accepts the land.

Arafat is executed by the Jordanians immediately. The militants in the WB and GS are all executed by the Jordanians and the Egyptians.