India - Israel News & Discussion

[Sanket]

Sanket

What's your take on this ...?

Indian president backs Syria's claim on the Golan Heights

This is not cool ...

True... Indian foreign policy has always been pro-Arab.

Syria assures India of full support on UN Security Council seat

[Sanket]

Names You Need To Know In 2011: Indo-Israeli Alliance

From news article:

Israel has become one of India’s largest military suppliers, while India has assisted Israel in the naval sphere. Israel, the No. 1 foreign issuer on the NASDAQ stock exchange, is investing in many Indian companies, while India has become one of Israel’s top trading partners in Asia.

[Reffo]

I hardly expect Indian officials to take a pro-Israeli stance when they are in talks with Syrians, any more than I expect them to take a pro-Syrian stance when they are in talks with Israelis. It's just hot air, they'll tell each side what they want to hear. They pay lip service to the Arab world because of the importance of oil and for pandering to their Muslim constituents but in reality it's just talk, the economic and security ties with Israel are top notch and the two countries are fairly natural allies. It would of course be nice if India took a more pro-Israeli stance in light of these improved relations, but all in all they're fairly uninvolved in the conflict.

There is such a thing as treading mid way between the two. No need for India to make either pro Syria or pro Israel statements.

But seeing that they do make pro Syria statements, despite close commercial cooperation with Israel. I wonder how they would react if Israel too would make a pro Pakistan statement with regards to Kashmir. I mean, who knows, that might help Israel's position too in the Muslim world.

curly, I must admit that I am getting a bit tired of these one sided relationships (diplomatically) in which Israel takes everything on the chin with a smile but as soon as Israel puts a foot wrong, it's 'friends' 'commercial partners' jump down Israel's throat. Don't you think that this idea of having a thick skin is not so great? I think that's why countries like Turkey didn't think twice about kicking Israel in the mouth. Because they assume that as soon as it will suit them, they will just whistle and Israeli leaders/politicians will run, wag their tails and lick their hands, as has recently happened with Castro when he allegedly uttered a few kind words about Jews. I for one am just sick of it even if it is not politically correct for me to say so.

[Kachah]

Reffo, if you are an Indian leader and you are visiting Damascus with some potential benefits in mind you will have to say something about Golans being returned to Syria. It's reasonable. Otherwise you will go to Syria as part of coalition forces. There is no other way.
But there is more commonality. India and Syria are both set free ex-colonies while Israel "belongs" to the colonial powers. At least spiritually. Or call it "the 1st world". There are definitely some beatings there.
India is not that fond of Moslems but holds significant moslem minority so I can't see how Indian PM could have avoided stating once again the "accepted" UN position. Again, doesn't mean he gives a damn.
Anyway, the military co-operation with INdia is definitely better and safer than selling military equipment to China. I bet the Americans are encouraging Israel in alligning with India.

[Reffo]

Kachah

I know what you are saying. But the flip side of it is that if Israel allows itself to be taken for granted, by everyone, then it will reap the kind of diplomatic treatment that is currently being meted out to it by everyone. It's as simple as that.

[Mediocrates]

There are few allies. Mostly it's intersecting interests.

[Sanket]

There are few allies. Mostly it's intersecting interests.

True...But lets not forget, irrespective of the India-Israel Foreign Policy, majority of the citizens support each other.


Reffo,

And please start supporting Pakistan....Do you really think India will start changing its policy because of that ?

And please dont be surprised when they send their Ace Pilots to kill Israeli's AGAIN. Remeber 1973 Arab Israel War and Pakistans Role ?

[Reffo]

Reffo

And please start supporting Pakistan....Do you really think India will start changing its policy because of that ?

And please dont be surprised when they send their Ace Pilots to kill Israeli's AGAIN. Remeber 1973 Arab Israel War and Pakistans Role ?

You missed the point of my post. It's not about supporting Pakistan. It's about giving the message that if a type of policy is good enough for one side then it should be good enough for the other side too.

And you know what? It's not about India either. My problem is that Israeli leaders are trying so hard not to "make waves" with any potential ally that potential allies say to themselves that they can take Israel for granted. That means that they are not beyond embarrassing Israel in order to gain favours from Israel's enemies too. What I would like to see from Israel's leaders is a bit more self respect that will induce partners, allies and countries with common interests to consider israel's position too. By all means, be friends with BOTH sides but don't use Israel as a kicking board to gain favours from Israel's enemies.

Am I so wrong in advocating that Sanket? Wouldn't you expect the same from your leaders?

[Sanket]

Am I so wrong in advocating that Sanket? Wouldn't you expect the same from your leaders?

Do you really think most of us like when our leaders make Pro-Arab statements ?

Here we have people who earn their bread and butter by making Anti-India statements. We have politicians who hire Osama lookalikes to get Muslim Votes.

Our Secular Home ministry is considering the terms of reference, perks and privileges of the interlocutors on Kashmir.

So whenever India says something about Palestine,etc. Please Take it with a pinch of salt.

[Reffo]

Sanket

I take your point. Maybe my suggestion about Pakistan and Kashmir would be counter productive and even stupid.

Having said that, IMHO, Israel should not just gloss over what happened and take it with a grain of salt. There are consequences to Israel, bad ones, if even countries with common interests continue to gratuitously line up against it whenever they feel it suits THEIR interests to do so. What bad consequences, you might ask? It emboldens Israel's enemies and it emboldens other countries to join the bandwagon to isolate Israel. The net result is that the prospects of peace actually diminish instead of improve. Or worse, Israel would have to make more unreasonable concessions because of international pressure.

[bararallu]

Reffo,

I think we can agree the biggest culprit here is Israel. It is Israel that does not chastise or pressure allies to be not only covertly be with us but overtly. For years we've resigned ourselves to pariah status... a self fulfilled prophecy. To undo the damage would be to publicly chastise an Allied state. I suggest starting with some Western States who are far more hypocritical than India.

[Reffo]

bararallu

Agreed. I totally agree with that. The question is, what options does Israel have to exert it's own counter pressure on whoever. There is 'no' question, however that Israel needs to do more in this regard because having taken such events "with a grain of salt" from so many countries in the past, is why Israel is in the current situation of being under pressure from so many different directions.

[curlyg]

bara and Reffo,

I agree that Israel has by its own complacency made it acceptable and even a profitable enterprise to bash Israel. I've previously said that Israel has turned into a global punching bag because it has failed to pursue a more intelligently assertive foreign policy (as opposed to the stupid kind of assertiveness one sees from Lieberman). In the vast majority of cases, such as say Turkish incitement or Egyptian attacks against Israel, there has to be a price tag for belligerence.

But this is not a model that can be universally applied. We have to realise that the alliance between Israel and the US, and likewise the alliance between Israel and India, are not a relationship between equals. That may not be politically correct to say, but the fact of the matter is that we are talking about a puny country in the Middle East which lacks any natural resources, and serves minimal immediate strategic purpose in the region (e.g. access to the Suez Canal, shipping in the Gulf which are the key US interests in the region) on the one hand, and on the other hand the world's most powerful superpower. The relationship is asymmetric. Israel benefits much more from its ties with the US, than the US benefits from its ties with Israel. The relationship with India is similar. India is a rising superpower, and again, Israel is practically like an Indian city. Israeli defense firms which are making record profits in sales to India are the ones reaping the benefits from the close Israel-India ties, while India COULD, if circumstances so required, simply buy its advanced equipment form Europe or the US.

I'm not saying that India and the US don't also reap benefits from their relations with Israel, but I am saying that we must constantly bear in mind the asymmetry in these alliances and be mindful of the fact that Israel benefits far more from them than the superpowers do. That doesn't mean that Israel should become an outright vassal and simply do everything it is told, but it does mean, imo, that Israel should tread lightly and overlook minor incidents like this where an Indian official just tells the Syrians what they want to hear without doing anything about it in reality.

[Mediocrates]

Russia continues to supply 75% of India's armaments. Of course they're of rough quality but you gotta dance with the one what brought ya.

[Reffo]

curlyg

While, basically you are talking a lot of sense I believe that even with Superpowers Israel has ways and means to get them to understand israel's displeasure, in tangible ways that will get them to take note of it. Of course I am not advocating that Israel should do things that would cause a major rupture (unless there are very good reasons to do so).

I'll say it again, there is 'no' excuse for Israel's foreign policy makers to react to incidents in a lazy way and to just roll over. They need to actively try harder ... (I know it's not always easy)