Home | Nafez Mashal, 2, was struck by a bullet on Monday outside his house in Rafah as he chased a balloon, his father reported.
Residents said the shots from an Israeli Army watchtower near the border with Egypt were unprovoked. The army said soldiers were returning fire.
Another local boy, Muhammad Abu Naja, 8, died on Monday of wounds sustained on Oct. 17 when an Israeli tank fired shells into a densely populated refugee neighborhood, killing six other people and wounding dozens more.
We have no idea what happened exactly. But I'm not excusing the deaths, on the contrary, I wish more restraint and hesitation in such situations. These kids had all the right to live.
But lets look at the Nablus situation now for example. If the IDF just wants to terrorize the people and be cold blooded murderers, why hasn't anyone been killed?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by whereamigod
Source?
You know it's too bad that the Palestinians are still using little children as human shields.
This is part of the many atrocities committed by groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad against their own people.
Do you think that the Palestinians will ever hold those groups responsible for these killings?
No, Arab child abuse.
People who encourage their children to grow up to blow themselves up are hardly people whose reports can be trusted. Remember that in Jenin they even brought bodies from the hospital and put them outside to make it look like they had been killed in a "massacre."
Cases of Israeli snipers delibrately targeting children are well documented, though it is almost probably not IDF policy to do this, no meaniful investigations or criminal proceedings are ever brought.
That’s an outrageous lie!Originally posted by jcsd
Cases of Israeli snipers delibrately targeting children are well documented, though it is almost probably not IDF policy to do this, no meaniful investigations or criminal proceedings are ever brought.
No it is not, there is very strong evidence for it including video footage.
Yes, where are these documents? Are you going to supply us with an emotional story of some sorts?Originally posted by jcsd
Cases of Israeli snipers delibrately targeting children are well documented, though it is almost probably not IDF policy to do this, no meaniful investigations or criminal proceedings are ever brought.
Ok, I do not rule out that some incidents like you mentioned might have happened but the way some anti-Israeli people portray this is, that this sort of thing happens almost constantly and always like to dig up lone incidents to prove the cold bloodedness of IDF soldiers.
Now, you must also consider the circumstances the soldiers have to deal with. They are humans and are also in the constant fear of death. Mistakes have been made and that is regrettable but the best explanation I have heard was from a IDF refusnik, a commander named Rami Kaplan. He explicitly told the BBC's HARDtalk audience that IDF soldiers are normal human beings and are not "immoral" like many people to portray it. He gave an example where one of the soldiers under his command yelled out that a man was carrying a gun. He wasn't shot because they found out he was carrying a bag for oranges. These kind of incidents happen and militant attacks also happen. So it is only natural for a person in a war zone to be suspicious and afraid.
In the light of the deaths that have happened on monday and today, the Palestinian death toll has been lower than Israeli in the recent weeks. This proves something, since the soldiers have an opportunity to murder constantly in the territories.
I would also like to emphasise on the fact that IDF soldiers are Jews (at least 99%). I'm a Jew and I get almost the same kind of moral upringing as my brethren in Israel. It is impossible to convince people on a board named Israel Forum that Jewish soldiers are cold blooded killers, especially when people like "whereamigod" tend to generalize. Anti-Israel forums will give people like that praise and acknoweldge that this is the truth. Well, it is not. That is a fact. Jews are not perfect but the generalizing is way over board... and the sources are always very controversial and disputable.
Israelis, nor Jews condone killings of Palestinian children. If it is "collateral damage" (louzy term, I know) the justification behind the attack, not the effect, is found. Palestinian terror attacks however, are deliberately targeted at civilian areas. Usually it might even be a kid under eighteen carrying out the attack! And they do get killed and they are added to the death toll caused by Israeli "aggression".
Yes, but I'll again refer back to the infamous video footage, that it was generally agreed by experts that the sniper could of only of been targeting the child. I don't think the Jews as a group are immune from containing cold-blooded killers, the man bone of contention is that the Israeli government refuses to take any real action against them (for example a settler found guilty of murdering a Palestinian boy was ridiculously given a one-year suspended sentence).
What experts? I've seen no footage like this, and believe me, I've seen a lot.Originally posted by jcsd
Yes, but I'll again refer back to the infamous video footage, that it was generally agreed by experts that the sniper could of only of been targeting the child. I don't think the Jews as a group are immune from containing cold-blooded killers, the man bone of contention is that the Israeli government refuses to take any real action against them (for example a settler found guilty of murdering a Palestinian boy was ridiculously given a one-year suspended sentence).
A home video, that I saw, of an IDF tank firing at children was highly controversial and flawed. You could've made any conclusions from it. The tank was pursuing a car with a man inside it. The car starts honking its horn to warn the children. The tank fires immediately after coming from behind a house, where it is impossible for the tank crew (the driver that is) to see the children. Right after the shot is fired however, the video blurs and we can't see the impact of the shell, or the deaths for that matter. Two Palestinian children died from that incident.
So who was killed by the sniper? Could you point out from the www.ict.org.il site, who died from this sniper incident?
Oh yeah, may I point out that this infamous video is only one video. A lot of generalizing is made from one video, no?
And then I would like to remind you again, that every mistake can not possibly be punished. The soldiers are not in a normal situation like in Finland where there is virtually no violence. Do you expect for soldiers, who are under constant fear of death and occasionally fired upon, to act like normal police men? IDF soldiers are not Spidermen with a spider sense, they are not super beings. They are human in a hostile enviroment. (They should leave, I know.) How would you act in a constant state of fear, where you could be fired upon at any moment? Is it possible that you might make a mistake and kill a child? (I couldn't live with it though...)
In a common state of war, are lawyers and judges on battle fields and does every soldier get punished for every civilian death that he has inflicted? I don't think so. The problem is that it is hard to make out what kind of situation the soldiers and common folk experience in the territories. It is not a normal state of peace, nor total war. It is somewhere in between. It should get its own term.
The settler situation is not to my liking though but who was this convicted man? When and who did he murder and where?
Of course we are not immune, but I just see no point in the shooting of children from the Israeli side. It has nothing to gain and is extremely bad PR.
How do you know no meaningful investigations result? Do you know what the Orr commission did? Do you know that the army, any army handles it's trials internally.Originally posted by jcsd
Cases of Israeli snipers delibrately targeting children are well documented, though it is almost probably not IDF policy to do this, no meaniful investigations or criminal proceedings are ever brought.
These are stills from a news article published just after the incident:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/952700.stm
another article about a different sniper killing:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...797632,00.html
Yet another child shot by the IDF:
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pa...?itemNo=182202
More shootings including children:
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pa...?itemNo=220478
eyewitness accounts from a christian site of killings in Bethelehem:
http://www.fatdawg.com/pilgrim.html
Human rights groups have critized Israel for promising to hold investigations into certain incidents but then failing to.Originally posted by Mediocrates
How do you know no meaningful investigations result? Do you know what the Orr commission did? Do you know that the army, any army handles it's trials internally.
In war, there are always tragic accidents. But it is the height of hypocrisy for the apologists of arab murderers who deliberately target children and non-combatants to attempt to project the behavior of these criminals upon soldiers defending against such attacks.Originally posted by jcsd
Cases of Israeli snipers delibrately targeting children are well documented, though it is almost probably not IDF policy to do this, no meaniful investigations or criminal proceedings are ever brought.
You know this already. It has been laid out in this forum time and again for anyone willing to read with an open mind by much more eloquent commentators than I.
It’s simple. When arabs stop murdering non-combatant Jews, you will see a sharp decline in such accidents of war. Stop rationalizing murder sprees against Israeli women and children by making up your own “evidence. It is indefensible.
Ok,
1. I do not defend Palestinian terrorism
2. These particular incidents go beyond accidents. Far more Palestinian children have been killed by the IDF than Israeli children by Palestinian terrorist (these figures are for non-combatants)
3. The cause of the terrorism is the unjust Israeli occupation, but Israel refuses to take the easiest step to try and put an end to it by withdrawing.
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