So who takes the Palestinians to trial?
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So who takes the Palestinians to trial?
You make a lot of accusations without citing sources. Your words do not become "facts" simply by stating them and adding numbers.Originally posted by jcsd
Ok,
1. I do not defend Palestinian terrorism
2. These particular incidents go beyond accidents. Far more Palestinian children have been killed by the IDF than Israeli children by Palestinian terrorist (these figures are for non-combatants)
3. The cause of the terrorism is the unjust Israeli occupation, but Israel refuses to take the easiest step to try and put an end to it by withdrawing.
That should be the responsibilty of the PA (they have imprisoned Hamas activists and those involved in the infamous lynching). Though most sucide bombers are unable to be tried due to the fact they are already dead (and Israel generally catches the failed ones)
But you can't justify a total refusal to prosecute by saying the Palestinians don't do it enough.
article about figures for Palestinian and Israeli children killed in intifada:
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1001-05.htm
So we've leapt from anomalies to 'total refusal'Originally posted by jcsd
That should be the responsibilty of the PA (they have imprisoned Hamas activists and those involved in the infamous lynching). Though most sucide bombers are unable to be tried due to the fact they are already dead (and Israel generally catches the failed ones)
But you can't justify a total refusal to prosecute by saying the Palestinians don't do it enough.
Israel just does not investigate or bring to trial soldiers accused of human rights abuses even when there is compelling evidence.
Originally posted by jcsd
Yes, but I'll again refer back to the infamous video footage, that it was generally agreed by experts that the sniper could of only of been targeting the child. I don't think the Jews as a group are immune from containing cold-blooded killers, the man bone of contention is that the Israeli government refuses to take any real action against them (for example a settler found guilty of murdering a Palestinian boy was ridiculously given a one-year suspended sentence).
An investigation in Germany established that the boy had not been shot by IDF forces. I tried to find the link but I wasn't successful I believe it was posted in the forum some time ago.
The Palestinians most likely shot the boy on purpose!
In any event what are terrorists doing opening fire when civilians are close by? Bullets ricochet in case you didn't know it.
Wow, bullets ricochet? Its just not possible that the IDF has no concern for innocent life, but that could never be true, because they hold themselves to a higher standard?
Also, newsguy, your very well thought out excuse of the arabs using 3 & 4 year old kids as human shield does not stand, not now, not ever. What genius would use a kid the size of a basketball to protect him from gunfire? Especially seeing how they know there are snipers that are very well trained positioned all around them. But hey, you never know. I just guess that the IDF is very lucky to be vindicated in every human rights violations case, but then again, how do we know? Its not like we ever know what happens to the majority of those "investigations".
An investigation in Germany established that the boy had not been shot by IDF forces. I tried to find the link but I wasn't successful I believe it was posted in the forum some time ago.
The Palestinians most likely shot the boy on purpose!
In any event what are terrorists doing opening fire when civilians are close by? Bullets ricochet in case you didn't know it.
What evidence do you have of this accusation? Also, you say that this was investigated in Germany and it was proven that the IDF was not responsible. I am going to take a huge leap and guess you do not have a link to this story.
You seem to think that in your fantasy land scenario, any army "cares." It doesn't. An army is a professional organization that obeys stringent rules and laws. That is what makes an army effective. The IDF, like all professional armies, has a strict set of rules governing when it is permissible to shoot and relating to ethics. And yes, the Israeli army rules are, in fact, set to a higher standard of protecting innocent civilians, whether you like it or not.Originally posted by whereamigod
Wow, bullets ricochet? Its just not possible that the IDF has no concern for innocent life, but that could never be true, because they hold themselves to a higher standard?
Sorry this blows away yet another one of your terrorism apologist myths about the IDF, but that's the way it is.
psssssst... I'll let you in on a secret. Human shields are also used to deter return fire, or to score PR points.Also, newsguy, your very well thought out excuse of the arabs using 3 & 4 year old kids as human shield does not stand, not now, not ever. What genius would use a kid the size of a basketball to protect him from gunfire?
In the Palestinian terrorists' case, they treat their children like human garbage, and simply shoot at IDF soldiers from crowded civilian areas, just hoping that a stray bullet shot by the IDF in self-defense will kill a child. It is really no loss to them, as human life is worthless to many Palestinian terrorists, but the only value their human shields have is to pin something on the IDF by silly and gullible activists duped by the Palestinian PR effort.
The situation got so bad, actually, that the Palestinians themselves have demanded of the terrorists to stop shooting from civilian areas to prevent death and injuries.
oops... Is that yet another terrorism-apologist myth shattered?
Maybe it's not like YOU know, but other people who read the papers or do any amount of research, do know exactly of the outcome of these investigations, considering they're made public usually.Its not like we ever know what happens to the majority of those "investigations".
IDF soldiers who break the rules are prosecuted and relieved of duty. This is done not to justify themselves to gullible terrorism apologists, but to maintain discipline among its ranks, which is the top requirement in any professional army. And as you know, the IDF is ranked as one of the top armies in the world.
But I wonder of the Palestinians ever investigate their own troops who fire from behind human shields, causing death and injuries to their own people. Have you ever heard of such a prosecution, or do they not hold themselves to any standards of humanity at all?
And what is your source for this preposterous statement?Originally posted by jcsd
Israel just does not investigate or bring to trial soldiers accused of human rights abuses even when there is compelling evidence.
Do you think that any army does not investigate soldiers who violate explicit orders?
This is as outrageous as your repetition of the same old tired Arab lies about how the IDF supposedly targets children, which surprises me, because usually you are very well informed.
Reminds me of your link to the Muhammad al Dura murder in which the Palestinians (much like in the case of the phony Jenin "massacre") thought they had scored a huge PR victory to fool the world.
Well, after using this poor little dead Palestinian boy as the poster child for justifying Palestinian terrorism, the facts were all of a sudden exposed by an investigation of German TV network ARD. Turns out that the child was shot not by the IDF, but by a Palestinian gunman.
Imagine the embarrassment it caused the Palestinian professional liars when their poster boy Muhammad al Dura turned out to be a perfect example of Palestinians slaughtering each other in their zeal to shoot at Jews. It was also the first major humiliation for the Palestinian disinformation effort. They quietly removed all mentions of the incident from then on.
But I know that this would not stop many other gullible (and some ill-intentioned) terrorism supporters from using that incident just in case people didn't realize the truth. After all, it was so well buried by the Palestinians that many may have no idea at all about what happened there at the Netzarim junction that day. And the Palestinians would prefer it stay that way, I'm sure.
I have some more questions for you, jcsd:
btw - while we're talking about targeting children, I will remind you of 10 month-old Shalevet Pas intentionally shot in her head by a Palestinian sniper through the window of her Hebron house, while held in her father's arms.
Has there been a Palestinian investigation of that incident? I think not... Why do you suppose it's so? Because, as you know, the Palestinian "justice system" has been hard at work throughout this whole Intifada, executing "collaborators," but nowhere have I heard of the Arabs prosecuting their child murderers.
Do you think that's because it is their policy to murder Jewish infants using weapons bought and paid for with EU funding, perhaps?
LOL Ha, you make it sound like the IDF is one person! Do you know whether the guy in the car next to you has any concern for human life?Originally posted by whereamigod
Wow, bullets ricochet? Its just not possible that the IDF has no concern for innocent life, but that could never be true, because they hold themselves to a higher standard?
Let's just say, if there was the remote possibility that one IDF soldier turned out to be an evil person and committed an attrocity, you would say that the entire IDF is evil? That is called a generalization, usually used by people who don't know the difference.
And in the many cases where IDF soldiers helped a Palestinian, or provided medical attention, would you say they had no concern for human life?
Your arguements are weak. You're only here to sling insults and throw out heavy words like Nazi. I think its because you can't do any better.
Originally posted by jcsd
Ok,
1. I do not defend Palestinian terrorism
2. These particular incidents go beyond accidents. Far more Palestinian children have been killed by the IDF than Israeli children by Palestinian terrorist (these figures are for non-combatants)
3. The cause of the terrorism is the unjust Israeli occupation, but Israel refuses to take the easiest step to try and put an end to it by withdrawing.
1. Thats a start.
2. Let's look at that shall we.....
Skewing the Death Tolls
Posted by CFI | 20.Jul.02 | 09:02
COMMUNIQUE: 16 July 2002
Skewing the Death Tolls
A statistical study reveals startling trends by breaking the death tolls down by age, gender, and other factors.
As Israel reels from today's terror attack near Emanuel, the media resorts to the old scoreboard technique of reporting that "1,500 Palestinians have been killed, compared to about 550 Israelis."
HonestReporting protests this method of reporting casualties, which makes no distinction between civilians and armed combatants, it lumps suicide bombers with their innocent civilians, and it reports Palestinian "collaborators" murdered by their own compatriots as if they had been killed by Israelis.
A new comprehensive study by the International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism (ICT) reveals some startling trends by breaking the death tolls down into sub-segments -- e.g. age, gender, and whether or not they were combatants.
The study shows that while the majority of Palestinian deaths in the conflict are combatants, Israeli fatalities are 80 percent noncombatants.
Researchers also found that Palestinians are directly responsible for the deaths of at least 185 of their own number -- one out of every eight Palestinians killed in the conflict thus far. (In the previous wave of Palestinian violence during the late 1980s, about 800 Palestinians were killed by other Palestinians as "suspected collaborators" -- amounting to about one-third of the total death toll.)
ICT researchers also found that the proportion of women in the Israeli death toll is about 30 percent. By contrast, Palestinian fatalities are overwhelmingly 95 percent male. All total, 61 Palestinian females have been killed, compared to 160 Israeli females.
Another great disproportion exists amongst noncombatants aged 40 and over, where 154 Israelis have been killed, compared to 69 Palestinians.
* * *
Unfair reporting of the casualty count has long been a thorn in the side of media watch groups. Scores of Palestinians have been wounded by Palestinian-perpetrated bus bombings. Other Palestinians have been killed or wounded while making bombs which detonated prematurely. Other Palestinian deaths were later discovered to be due intra-Palestinian crime-related activity, or even to traffic accidents.
Last year, The New York Times published an illustrated graph, comparing Jewish deaths and Arab deaths in the conflict. Many HonestReporting readers wrote to complain that the graph was misleading, and the response from Bill Borders of The Times was surprisingly curt and dismissive: "The graphs are correct because everyone that they count as dead is in fact dead. All of them."
Teen Newsweek, a magazine distributed to middle school students across America, published a chart illustrating the number of Palestinian and Israeli children killed since 1987. The Palestinian numbers, represented in bright red, many times exceed Israeli losses, shown in a less visible yellow. There is no explanation of circumstances how these children died. The implication is that there is equivalency -- even though the Palestinian children were killed while attempting martyrdom in the context of violent attacks on Israeli forces, while the Israeli children were killed while sitting on a public bus or in a cafe, blown up by a Palestinian suicide bomber.
Some media outlets simply have a hard time counting. A recent BBC article featured a photo of a burned-out Israeli bus, with the caption: "Suicide attacks have killed dozens of Israelis." Shouldn't that be "hundreds"?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...00/2050302.stm
The ICT report is an excellent and thorough statistical analysis, complete with comparative charts and graphs. HonestReporting recommends that you refer editors to this report, and encourage them to list casualty figures more accurately.
The full ITC report is online at:
http://www.ict.org.il/researchreport/researchreport.htm
A shorter summary version is at:
http://www.ict.org.il/researchreport/projectsummary.htm
3. Palestinians could be enjoying life if their own country right now. The uprising has gotten them nothing but death and misery. Stop the uprising. Stop the homicide bombings. Life will get better.
The key to this thread is the Islamist motto:
"We are more keen on dying than you are keen on living."
Palestinians, like all Islamist terrorists, believe they "win" when they are killed.
If you'd like, I can show you a thread on an Islamist discussion board about suicide "martyrs" who (supposedly) were found dead with smiles on their faces -- attributed to their satisfaction upon entering the mass murderers' paradise...
Arafat himself has called for a "million martyrs."
This will never end untill all peoples awake to the futility of this perpetual killing.newsthoughts.com
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