Photo: Palestinians with swastika flag

[Mike Kilo (4X)]

Originally posted by fair
dear L@mplighterM
this is the wrong culture they are feeding to you
tried to cultivate hatred in yr hearts against others .. especialy arabs

moslems and arabs respict all religions include jewish religion
but we dislike unfair acts

Dear Fair,
your argument's logic is understandable but feable. Before, much before, the actions of Sharon there was Hatred and suicide bombers. take it further out - Why is it that most suicide bombers are Muslim? how many Sharons are there in the world? who was Sharon when the muslim blew themselves up in Lebanon against Christians? are Clinton or George bush a sort of Sharon that teased Muhammed Atta to fly a civilian jet into the WTC?

there is a huge fault in the way Muslim, and specificly palestinians are being brought up. yes, Israel has some part in that - but the biggest enemy of the Muslim and, again, specificly Palestinians is the fundamentalist Terrorism.

Fundamentalists like Ahmed Yassin and others are sending YOUR suns and daughters to go and kill themselves with as many Israelis as possible... The myth of the Martyr the Shaheed as a role model for the children is what makes becoming a suicide bomber respectable and common - and that's why there are so many kids willing to kill themselves! there are many ways to protest against injustice. Monks in the far east would burn themselves. in most countries a demonstration is the popular way... only in muslim countries or societies it is common to go blow yourself up. Think about it.

[Morpheus]

The swastika has been used over and over again. It's not only Islam who use swastika, have you ever seen the movie "American history X". Now tell me how western society reacts on this ... let it happen.

Here's a picture I found on the ADL site.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Morpheus
The swastika has been used over and over again. It's not only Islam who use swastika, have you ever seen the movie "American history X". Now tell me how western society reacts on this ... let it happen.

Here's a picture I found on the ADL site.

I guess we could bury you wrapped in one then.

[Morpheus]

I said that not only Muslims use the Swastika, it's mainly skinheads. And these Skindsheads are really not the guys to represent what the people in Europe think. Swastika is an illegal symbol here, I also said. Most people are horrified of seeing it.

Using it would not give you any sympathy among the people. Bringing up the Swastika is a bad thing therefor.

The only ones still using Swastika are a bunch of skinheads (lowlifes) all over the world, in Europe, America, and as I discovered today on TV; even in Russia.



I guess we could bury you wrapped in one then.




Why do you always twist my words and make it in to something you want to hear yourself! It's really pissing me off, you know!
Read my words, and don't come with that **** anymore you made up yourself!!

[kauffner]

In Korea and Japan, the counterclockwise swastika is everywhere. (It's like the Nazi symbol, but reversed.) The swastika is a Buddhist symbol here, used the same way Christians use the cross or Jews use the Star of David. It's been used by Nintendo and also put on Pokemon cards, although ADL protests have kept such items out of the U.S. I hope Europeans aren't too shocked when they come here to see their teams play in the World Cup next month.

[Mike Kilo (4X)]

Originally posted by kauffner
In Korea and Japan, the counterclockwise swastika is everywhere. (It's like the Nazi symbol, but reversed.) ... I hope Europeans aren't too shocked when they come here to see their teams play in the World Cup next month.

So, let me see if I got it right:

clockwise swastika - good,
counter-clockwise swastika - bad?

the swastika originally was a sign of luck - I think it had to do with an ancient god or german myth, until Adolf Hitler decided to adopt it as his party's symbol.

let them draw and use all the swastika's they want - and any way they want them. as digusted as I am by what it represents (to me as an Israeli, a jew, a citizen of this world and above all a man) at least that way people get reminded of the nazi party and what it meant - and for the very least it gives all of us, who do remember the nazi party and the holocaust, a chance to talk about it - and remind those who forgot, chose to forgot or wish it hadn't happened so badly that they deny it did...

maybe Some day, when Israel's football team is good enough, we might get to see a game where the david star gets to defeat the swastika. and either way when that day comes, we will still be there to remind people of a dictator name Adolf and his Ideology - and it's meaning and consequences.

wouldn't you agree?

[Mediocrates]

I own a copy of American History X - do you not understand it is used as a negative symbol? The character has it tatooed on his chest as an emblem of his hatred. But still he is stained by it even after turning his life around. It's a metaphor for unredeemable sin.

If you want to wave one around, that's great. Go change the laws of France and stop complaining that we have rights you don't.

What you said was like, and excuse the **** out of me for drawing an actual conclusion: "well heck, the hangman's rope has been used as a legitimate device in American jurisprudence, there is no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to walk around a black neighborhood with one, showing it to all the people there and explaining how it was used."

[Batman]

http://www.israelemb.org/palestinian...realmodem.html


CONCLUSION:The United Nations is the legitimizing organization of Palestinian-Arab-Militant-Islamic terrorism/suicide homicide factories and human bombs against the innocent people of the Israel, the US and the world.

THE INJUSTICE IS GLARING After the most recent MASSACRE in Rishon Letzion which killed 16 people and wounded 60, the U.N. had the audacity to CONDEMN ISRAEL the very next day. The vote was 74-4 with 54 abstentions.
There were no votes condemning Palestinian terrorism.

URGE THE UN TO INVESTIGATE PALESTINIAN TERROR IMMEDIATELY

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/303588867

[Mediocrates]

Why is this thread always at the top of the heap?

[A Boy]

Originally posted by fair
what Mr. Sharoon's doing also ..like bloodshed, killing pelastinians
provoke them to be bomber suicides to kill innocent israelis also consider terrorism and nazist
the losers only palestinians and israelis people

no one provokes them to be suicide bombers more than their parents and teachers.

killing palestinians? the israelis are dying too.
palestinians have been killed since the intifada started, you can blame only them because they started the intifada who's far away from being just stones.

[A Boy]

and the world says that israel is racist. the world should see this pic.

[James]

Originally posted by Batman
http://www.israelemb.org/palestinian...realmodem.html


CONCLUSION:The United Nations is the legitimizing organization of Palestinian-Arab-Militant-Islamic terrorism/suicide homicide factories and human bombs against the innocent people of the Israel, the US and the world.

THE INJUSTICE IS GLARING After the most recent MASSACRE in Rishon Letzion which killed 16 people and wounded 60, the U.N. had the audacity to CONDEMN ISRAEL the very next day. The vote was 74-4 with 54 abstentions.
There were no votes condemning Palestinian terrorism.

URGE THE UN TO INVESTIGATE PALESTINIAN TERROR IMMEDIATELY

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/303588867

Right, the U.N. should should condemn Palestinian Terrorism,but
i wouldn't hold our breath waiting for them to act! It seems the U.N. always supports Arab states when it involves Terrorism!

[Israelforever]

Fair, interesting name, it seems that you are anything but. You almost entirely fit the stereotype of French and most European people. That stereotype being an anti-Semit or as you probably refer to it, anti-Zionism or anti-Israeli. Would you describe yourself as a Holochaust denier as well. Try these facts instead of your fiction.
There is no such thing as a Palestinian. Palestinian seized to exist in 1948 when the British mandate of Palestine came to an end resulting in the creation of Israel for the Jewish People and Trans-Jordan for the former Palestinian Arabs. Any person Arab or Jew living within the mandate were Palestinians. Another fact is that the former Palestinian Arabs had a state upon the end of the mandate, Trans-Jordan which at that time encompassed more land than modern day Israel. Even present day Jordan encompasses more land than Israel. They along with the other Arab states upon the founding of Israel refused to recognize Israel's right to exist then and the majority do not recognize it now. The Arab League declared war on the new state, and Egypt, Trans-Jordan (now Jordan), Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq mobilized their armies and attacked. Against all odds and with G-d's help the outnumbered, outgunned, Israel's triumphed. In the wake of the armistice portions of territory that the UN plan had allocated to the former Palestinian Arabs came under Egyptian and Jordanian control and military occupation (Egypt took over Gaza Strip, and Jordan gained control of the West Bank). Jerusalem was divided between Israel and Jordan. After 1950 with the Israel passage of The Right of Return many Jews were expelled from Arab lands forcibly or other wise to immigrate to Israel. By the end of 1951 300,000 Jewish refugees from Arab lands such as Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Iraq had immigrated to Israel.
The next major conflict was in 1967 when In May 1967 Nasser called for the removal of UN forces from the Suez Canal region. He also organized a military alliance with Syria, Jordan, and Iraq and moved Egyptian troops and equipment into the Sinai Peninsula. In addition, Nasser closed the Strait of Tiran to Israeli shipping. After efforts at mediation by the UN and the Western powers failed, Israel launched a preemptive military strike against Egypt in early June. Jordan, Syria, and Iraq joined the fighting against Israel. The Egyptian air force was destroyed on the ground within hours of the start of the , and Israeli forces quickly seized the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula. Israel also took East Jerusalem and the West Bank from Jordan and the Golan Heights from Syria.
These lands became know as occupied when Israel conquered them in the course of battle where as when Egypt and Jordan occupied and took these lands away from the former Palestinian Arabs these lands became part of the occupiers country. Throughout history wars have been fought for what ever reason and lands have been conquered, traditionally the country that wins the war gets to keep the land. For example the United States never gave conquered Native American lands back to the Native Americans so they could form separate and independent nations as they once had been. The entire Middle East peace process is a fallacy. Over two million Arabs live peacefully in Israel as Israel citizens with all the rights that that entails. Many such as the Bedouin proudly serve their country in the Israeli Defense Forces. As Golda Meir once said “There will be peace when the Arabs love their children as much as they hate the Jews.” Land for peace does not work because firstly the former Palestinian Arabs had there own country and were not contented with having the larger part of the whole of the mandate and secondly because almost every Arab state in the region has more land than Israel. What you should be more concerned with is why when the West Bank and Gaza Strip were under Israeli control were those Arabs in those lands as well as Arabs in the rest of Israel on a whole more prosperous, better educated, and successful over all than those same lands under the control of the terrorist Yaser Araffat or any other Arab nation in the region. You can not and should not make peace with people who do not recognize your right to exist.
Israel was rebuilt in 1948 on the lands that it had had long before the Arabs lived in that land of Israel. The Zionist movement is a reaction to the 2000 years of hatred and murder that the Jew's had to incur after the Dispora. The Zionist movement advocates a Jewish State in accordance with the Bible (Old Testament) in the Promised Land.
As for peace, in 1948 it was not the Zionist Jew's who attacked there Arab neighbors because they could not deal with living next to Arabs, It was the surrounding Arab states who attacked Israel. Since then, every attack on Israel has resulted in the Arabs loosing lands and they have been sore losers about it. I now have a question for you. When Trans-Jordan was occupying the West Bank and Egypt the Gaza strip why were the Arabs then not complaining when their brothers had taken their lands. When they used those lands as starting point for terrorism and future attacks prior to and during the 1967 Israel took the lands away from them. No you hear occupation and words like that thrown around the truth is that the Arabs who formally lived in the British Mandate of Palestine have been a disgrace to their own people and have been expelled from their real home land Trans-Jordan (modern day Jordan) because of their terrorist activities.
The only Answer for peace is that there will be peace when the Arabs love their children as much as they hate the Jewish People. That's basically what it is hatred. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Jordan are individually much larger than Israel that's why I can not imagine why the Arabs complain about lands.

[Israelforever]

Newsguy and Oh Jerusalem you are absolutely right. I agree with you 100%. The only thing I have to add is that you should be respectful of the innocent Israeli's who have been killed and refer to the Arab Terrorist attacks as Homicide Bombings. Also remeber it's the East Bank of Israel not the West Bank of Jordan. For Un-fair try these comments from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Along with my previous post A short history of Israel.

"Anti-Zionism" = "Anti-Semitism"

". . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--this is God's own truth."

"Antisemitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently antisemitic, and ever will be so. "

"Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Romans who cruelly murdered Our Lord. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wander the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them."

"The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested--DEMANDED the recognition and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country."

"How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish People to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of good will exult in the fulfilment of God's promise, that his People should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land."

"This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing less."

"And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is antisemitism. "

"The antisemite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the antisemite must constantly seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just 'anti-Zionist'! "

"My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate antisemitism. I know you feel, as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and a revulsion for racism, prejudice, and discrimination. But I know you have been misled--as others have been--into thinking you can be 'anti-Zionist' and yet remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I share. "

"Let my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--make no mistake about it."

From M.L. King Jr., "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend," Saturday Review_XLVII (Aug. 1967), p. 76.
Reprinted in M.L. King Jr., "This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr."

[Blueprint]

Not disagreeing with your view, Israelforever, but I believe that Martin Luther King letter is a fabrication based on a short quote by him.

Here is a report on it by the pro-Israel group CAMERA: http://www.jewish-history.com/mlk_zionism.html