Koraan: Miracles or Mistakes?

[Ezra]

In this thread we will start discussing some issues regarding the mistakes in Koraan. We will discuss scientific, social, and historical mistakes in the Koraan.

We will start today with some scientific mistakes that most Muslims tries to avoid discussing. I though you should all be aware of. We welcome any comments from the Muslims in the forum, namely Mr. Reason and his tail, Mss. Ily.

Soorah: 18

[83] They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story."
[84] Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends.
[85] One (such) way he followed,
[86] Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: near it he found a people: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority), either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

The Koraan says the sun sets in a spring of murky water! Haaa??

Soorah: 67

[5] And We have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.

Soorah: 37

[6] We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,
[7] (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits,
[8] (So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side,
[9] Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual Penalty,
[10] Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.

The planets and starts are now stones that Angels use to throw the Devil with? Haaaa??

Soorah: 36

[38] And the sun runs its course for a period determined for it; that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.

I never knew that the Sun stops somewhere! We all know that the sun spins around it axis and the whole solar system spin around!

To be continued...

[nileman]

Scientific Miracles in the Holy Qur'an

MOUNTAINS

A book entitled Earth is a basic reference textbook in many universities around the world.

One of its two authors is Professor Emeritus Frank Press.

He was the Science Advisor to former US President Jimmy Carter, and for 12 years was the President of the National Academy of Sciences, Washington, DC.

His book says that mountains have underlying roots.

These roots are deeply embedded in the ground, thus, mountains have a shape like a peg.
http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-b-img1.jpg
http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-b-img2-big.jpg
http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-b-img3-big.jpg
This is how the Quran has described mountains. God has said in the Quran:

Ãóáóãú äóÌúÚóáö ÇáúÃóÑúÖó ãöåóÇÃÂ�ðÇ * æóÇáúÌöÈóÇáó ÃóæúÃÅóÇÃÂ�ðÇ
ÇáäÈà 6 ¡ 7

Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs?
(Quran, 78:6-7)

Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots undand that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground.

So the most suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word ‘peg,’ since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground.

The history of science tells us that the theory of mountains having deep roots was introduced only in the latter half of the nineteenth century.

Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth.

They hinder the shaking of the earth. God has said in the Quran:

æóÃóáúÞóì ÃÂ�öàÇáÃóÑúÖö ÑóæóÇÓöÃÂó Ãóä ÃÅóãöÃÂÃÂ�ó Èößõãú æóÃóäúåóÇÑðÆ¡ æóÓõÈõáÇð áøóÚóáøóßõãú ÃÅóåúÃÅóÃÂ�õæäó
Çáä�á 15

And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you...
(Quran, 16:15)

Likewise, the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilizers for the earth.
This knowledge about the role of mountains as stabilizers for the earth has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960s.

Could anyone during the time of the Prophet Muhammad have known of the true shape of mountains?

Could anyone imagine that the solid massive mountain which he sees before him actually extends deep into the earth and has a root, as scientists assert?
http://www.agpix.com/catalog/AGPix_D...20_0004_Lg.jpg

A large number of books of geology, when discussing mountains, only describe that part which is above the surface of the earth.

This is because these books were not written by specialists in geology.

However, modern geology has confirmed

[Mediocrates]

That's interesting however if you mix post in arabic it comes out like gibberish for most of us. That is, no arabic language PC support.

Actually in many cultures mountains are descrbed as teeth or bones or growths out of the earth. Greek mythology describes some mountains as having roots down to Hades. Icelandic mythology (written later than the Koran around 1200-1300 in the Prose Edda, Snorri Stirlsson and others but the legends are 700-1000 years older), the mountains underneath Valhallah reach all the way down to the core of the universe, down to the lair of Yggdrasil.

[nileman]

Human Embryonic Development

In the Holy Quran, God speaks about the stages of man’s embryonic development:

æóáóÞóÃÂ�ú ÎóáóÞúäóÇ ÇáúÅöäÓóÇäó ãöä ÓõáóÇáóÉò ãøöä ØöÃÂäò * Ëõãøó ÌóÚóáúäóÇåõ äõØúÃÂ�óÉð ÃÂ�öàÞóÑóÇÑò ãøóßöÃÂäò * Ëõãøó ÎóáóÞúäóÇ ÇáäøõØúÃÂ�óÉó ÚóáóÞóÉð ÃÂ�óÎóáóÞúäóÇ ÇáúÚóáóÞóÉó ãõÖúÛóÉð ÃÂ�óÎóáóÞúäóÇ ÇáúãõÖúÛóÉó ÚöÙóÇãðÇ ÃÂ�óßóÓóæúäóÇ ÇáúÚöÙóÇãó áóÃÂ�úãðÇ Ëõãøó ÃóäÃâ€�óÃúäóÇåõ ÎóáúÞðÇ ÂÎóÑó ÃÂ�óÃÅóÈóÇÑóßó Çááøóåõ ÃóÃÂ�úÓóäõ ÇáúÎóÇáöÞöÃÂä ó
ÇáãÄãäæä 12 - 14

We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)...
(Quran, 23:12-14)

Literally, the Arabic word alaqah has three meanings: (1) leech, (2) suspended thing, and (3) blood clot.

In comparing a leech to an embryo in the alaqah stage, we find similarity between the two2 as we can see in figure 1. Also, the embryo at this stage obtains nourishment from the blood of the mother, similar to the leech, which feeds on the blood of others

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a-img1.jpg
Figure 1: Drawings illustrating the similarities in appearance between a leech and a human embryo at the alaqah stage.

The second meaning of the word alaqah is “suspended thing.� This is what we can see in figures 2 and 3, the suspension of the embryo, during the alaqah stage, in the womb of the mother.

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a-img2-big.jpg


Figure 2: We can see in this diagram the suspension of an embryo during the alaqah stage in the womb (uterus) of the mother.


http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a-img3.jpg


Figure 3: In this photomicrograph, we can see the suspension of an embryo (marked B) during the alaqah stage (about 15 days old) in the womb of the mother. The actual size of the embryo is about 0.6 mm.

The third meaning of the word alaqah is “blood clot.� We find that the external appearance of the embryo and its sacs during the alaqah stage is similar to that of a blood clot.

This is due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo during this stage (see figure 4).

Also during this stage, the blood in the embryo does not circulate until the end of the third week.5 Thus, the embryo at this stage is like a clot of blood.

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a-img4-big.jpg

Figure 4: Diagram of the primitive cardiovascular system in an embryo during the alaqah stage. The external appearance of the embryo and its sacs is similar to that of a blood clot, due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo.

So the three meanings of the word alaqah correspond accurately to the descriptions of the embryo at the alaqah stage.


The next stage mentioned in the verse is the mudghah stage. The Arabic word mudghah means “chewed substance.� If one were to take a piece of gum and chew it in his or her mouth and then compare it with an embryo at the mudghah stage, we would conclude that the embryo at the mudghah stage acquires the appearance of a chewed substance. This is because of the somites at the back of the embryo that “somewhat resemble teethmarks in a chewed substance.� (see figures 5 and 6).
http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a-img5.jpg


Figure 5: Photograph of an embryo at the mudghah stage (28 days old). The embryo at this stage acquires the appearance of a chewed substance, because the somites at the back of the embryo somewhat resemble teeth marks in a chewed substance. The actual size of the embryo is 4 mm.

http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a-img6-big.jpg




Figure 6: When comparing the appearance of an embryo at the mudghah stage with a piece of gum that has been chewed, we find similarity between the two.
A) Drawing of an embryo at the mudghah stage. We can see here the somites at the back of the embryo that look like teeth marks.
B) Photograph of a piece of gum that has been chewed

How could Muhammad have possibly known all this 1400 years ago, when scientists have only recently discovered this using advanced equipment and powerful microscopes which did not exist at that time?
Hamm and Leeuwenhoek were the first scientists to observe human sperm cells (spermatozoa) using an improved microscope in 1677 (more than 1000 years after Muhammad ).

They mistakenly thought that the sperm cell contained a miniature preformed human being that grew when it was deposited in the female genital tract.

Professor Emeritus Keith L. Moore is one of the world’s most prominent scientists in the fields of anatomy and embryology and is the author of the book entitled The Developing Human, which has been translated into eight languages.

This book is a scientific reference work and was chosen by a special committee in the United States as the best book authored by one person.

Dr. Keith Moore is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Cell Biology at the University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada.

There, he was Associate Dean of Basic Sciences at the Faculty of Medicine and for 8 years was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy.

In 1984, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists.

He has directed many international associations, such as the Canadian and American Association of Anatomists and the Council of the Union of Biological Sciences.

In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Professor Moore said: “It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quran about human development.

It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later.

This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God.�

http://www.islam-guide.com/video/moore-1.ram

[nileman]

Human Embryonic Development

Consequently, Professor Moore was asked the following question: “Does this mean that you believe that the Quran is the word of God?� He replied: “I find no difficulty in accepting this.�

During one conference, Professor Moore stated: “....Because the staging of human embryos is complex, owing to the continuous process of change during development, it is proposed that a new system of classification could be developed using the terms mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah (what Muhammad said, did, or approved of).

The proposed system is simple, comprehensive, and conforms with present embryological knowledge.

The intensive studies of the Quran and hadeeth (reliably transmitted reports by the Prophet Muhammad’s companions of what he said, did, or approved of) in the last four years have revealed a system for classifying human embryos that is amazing since it was recorded in the seventh century A.D.

Although Aristotle, the founder of the science of embryology, realized that chick embryos developed in stages from his studies of hen’s eggs in the fourth century B.C., he did not give any details about these stages.

As far as it is known from the history of embryology, little was known about the staging and classification of human embryos until the twentieth century.

For this reason, the descriptions of the human embryo in the Quran cannot be based on scientific knowledge in the seventh century.

The only reasonable conclusion is: these descriptions were revealed to Muhammad from God.

He could not have known such details because he was an illiterate man with absolutely no scientific training.

http://www.islam-guide.com/video/moore-2.ram

[IlyaFurman]

Hi, Im the Tail Mss: Ily

Soorah: 18

[83] They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story."
[84] Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends.
[85] One (such) way he followed,
[86] Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: near it he found a people: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority), either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."[/COLOR]

The Koraan says the sun sets in a spring of murky water! Haaa??

Clearly English is not your first language, it never says what you assumed.

Soorah: 67

[5] And We have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.

Soorah: 37

[6] We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,
[7] (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits,
[8] (So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side,
[9] Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual Penalty,
[10] Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.

The planets and starts are now stones that Angels use to throw the Devil with? Haaaa??

Never does the word Angel or Devil come in that verse or soorah you provided, assuming once again.

Soorah: 36

[38] And the sun runs its course for a period determined for it; that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.

I never knew that the Sun stops somewhere! We all know that the sun spins around it axis and the whole solar system spin around!

WHERE DOES IT SAY IT STOPS LOL

To be continued...

Please do.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by nileman
God has said in the Quran about one of the evil unbelievers who forbade the Prophet Muhammad from praying at the Kaaba:

.

nileman, you are welcome to join the discussion, but spamming is not allowed.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by Ezra
In this thread we will start discussing some issues regarding the mistakes in Koraan. We will discuss scientific, social, and historical mistakes in the Koraan.

We will start today with some scientific mistakes that most Muslims tries to avoid discussing. I though you should all be aware of. We welcome any comments from the Muslims in the forum, namely Mr. Reason and his tail, Mss. Ily.

The claim that the Koran anticipated modern scientific discoveries is, of course, pure nonsense. If the Koran provided advance insights into scientific knoweldge, then why are Muslim countries so backwards and lacking in science?

It is easy to take vague statements from 1,400 years ago and read into them more than is there. The Koran does not claim to be a book of science, and there are no scientific explanations or illustrations.

More important, of the three religions from the Holy Land, Islam is clearly the least compatible with science. Maimonides and Aquinas persuaded their co-religionists that religion must not contradict itself or knowledge acquired through human inquiry. Islam, in contrast, was influenced by Algazali, who argued that logic is fine as long as it serves Islam. Thus, Islam rejects knowledge acquired through human inquiry that conflicts with the Koran.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by nileman
He could not have known such details because he was an illiterate man with absolutely no scientific training.

Therefore, he did not know anything about science.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by ibrodsky
The claim that the Koran anticipated modern scientific discoveries is, of course, pure nonsense. If the Koran provided advance insights into scientific knoweldge, then why are Muslim countries so backwards and lacking in science?

It is easy to take vague statements from 1,400 years ago and read into them more than is there. The Koran does not claim to be a book of science, and there are no scientific explanations or illustrations.

More important, of the three religions from the Holy Land, Islam is clearly the least compatible with science. Maimonides and Aquinas persuaded their co-religionists that religion must not contradict itself or knowledge acquired through human inquiry. Islam, in contrast, was influenced by Algazali, who argued that logic is fine as long as it serves Islam. Thus, Islam rejects knowledge acquired through human inquiry that conflicts with the Koran.

Of course. And not only that, but I'm also going to show here the scientific mistakes in the books that they claim it's God's words.

[nileman]

hey
whats the reason to delete my posts ?

is this the rules here in this site to delete the topics you dont agree with ?

i want explainion ?

[nileman]

Originally posted by ibrodsky
Therefore, he did not know anything about science.

Therefore the quran is god words not mohamed
mohamed was a messenger of god god words

[Ezra]

Originally posted by nileman
Therefore the quran is god words not mohamed
mohamed was a messenger of god god words

And God thinks the sun set in a spring???????????

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by nileman
hey
whats the reason to delete my posts ?

is this the rules here in this site to delete the topics you dont agree with ?

i want explainion ?

I deleted several of your lengthy posts.

This is a discussion forum. You posted lengthy messages like the ones on "Human Embryonic Development" above. You cannot post essay after essay merely to drown out the discussion.

If you want to submit these ideas to other participants for discussion, you are welcome to do so. But you cannot simply wallpaper IsraelForum with lengthy posts while making no effort to engage other participants in discussion.

It also appears that your "posts" are just material cut & pasted from Islamic sites. I found the exact same words on two other sites.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by nileman
hey
whats the reason to delete my posts ?

is this the rules here in this site to delete the topics you dont agree with ?

i want explainion ?

Nileman, we are here to discuss issues together not to cover the forum with 10 feet long essays that I'm sure you haven't even read before posting.

Let's hear your opinion. If you want to post something, you can always summarize it by your OWN words and put a link for the original content.