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Thread: And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

    We’ve heard recently from David Cameron on the subject, and I seem to recall a similar speech by Angela Merkel not long ago. Now Nicolas Sarkozy is on the record (not the first time for him, either, I believe):
    French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared Thursday that multiculturalism had failed, joining a growing number of world leaders or ex-leaders who have condemned it.
    “My answer is clearly yes, it is a failure,” he said in a television interview when asked about the policy which advocates that host societies welcome and foster distinct cultural and religious immigrant groups.
    “Of course we must all respect differences, but we do not want… a society where communities coexist side by side.
    “If you come to France, you accept to melt into a single community, which is the national community, and if you do not want to accept that, you cannot be welcome in France,” the right-wing president said.
    “The French national community cannot accept a change in its lifestyle, equality between men and women… freedom for little girls to go to school,” he said.
    “We have been too concerned about the identity of the person who was arriving and not enough about the identity of the country that was receiving him,” Sarkozy said in the TFI channel show.
    British Prime Minister David Cameron, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Australia’s ex-prime minister John Howard and Spanish ex-premier Jose Maria Aznar have also recently said multicultural policies have not successfully integrated immigrants.
    Merkel in October said efforts towards multiculturalism in Germany had “failed, totally.”
    Yup, and Howard and Aznar as well. It’s not, of course, that the majority culture should oppress minorities, but it should not refrain from criticizing and protecting all that it/we have built. Newcomers must be expected to find what it takes to fit in. America has traditionally accomplished this far better than Europe. While we expect immigrants to accept the great American ideals, they and we still retain the compatible portions of our source cultures. It’s a melting pot that maintains 1000 flavors but still works as a whole.
    http://www.solomonia.com/wp/2011/02/...-is-a-failure/

  2. #2
    Senior Member Kachah's Avatar
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    Re: And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

    Oh, gimme a break... Multiculturalism is a socialist ploy. It was all about the Left importing their future electorate in the first place. As every other socialist affair it worked perfectly well for the people who instituted it. It is just the fact that not everyone is a socialist yet and the process of extermination of the people of non-socialist orientation took a bit longer than planned. And such beauties of multiculturalism like 9/11 or London bombings are pretty hard to ignore.
    Now they will attempt the plan B: "Muticulturalism was a good idea but badly implemented because we haven't invested enough into it and the right-wingers have corrupted it". Or even because the families keep bringing up kids in conservative ways so the school will have to take over for multiculturalism to succeed. The Left have no shame and no moral arresters in their quest for power.
    Now this whole big talk about "failure" is euphemistic for admitting that hard core Islam cannot be tolerated. Or rather when the moslems achieve some critical mass in the society they turn into something unbearable. Apparently now this critical mass is being achieved in Germany, UK and France and other W. European states. The tide will turn but who knows if it's not too late... Anyway, Europe is pretty screwed for any foreseable future.

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    Re: And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

    I don't think the problem is with multiculturalism as such, Kachah is right, this is a euphemism. Australia officially adopts multiculturalism as a national ideology, and there are minimal problems here in terms of culture clashes (though obviously there's some, it generally doesn't disrupt ordinary life except in very unusual cases like the Cronulla riots). Most people find a balance between their heritage and integration into Australia. Europe's problem is not many cultures -- it is certain cultures which are in some ways incompatible with their own and cannot be easily reconciled.

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    Senior Member Kachah's Avatar
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    Re: And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

    Quote Originally Posted by curlyg View Post
    I don't think the problem is with multiculturalism as such, Kachah is right, this is a euphemism. Australia officially adopts multiculturalism as a national ideology,.
    No it does not. John Howard officially removed this sick ploy from the national ideology. He said "judaeo-christian values", remember? The left hooligans went apeshit about this speech yet no-one, not even single Labor moron including Rudd and Gillard dared to insist that we officially practice "multiculturalism".


    Quote Originally Posted by curlyg View Post
    and there are minimal problems here in terms of culture clashes (though obviously there's some, it generally doesn't disrupt ordinary life except in very unusual cases like the Cronulla riots). Most people find a balance between their heritage and integration into Australia. .
    Most do, moslems don't. Their ideology does not allow them to accept anything else such as secular state, democracy etc. You cannot be a moslem and recognize civil authority in the same way as you cannot be a socialist and recognize personal freedoms (considering Islam is a version of socialism it's pretty obvious and natural). Something's gotta give, that guy who was recently caling on the Australian government to give up as the only government comes from Allah - is perfectly sane and rational moslem. We should thank him for being honest and put him away (or even better, string up before he leads the crowds of thousands).

    Now read my lips: critical mass. 5-6% in the UK and Germany, 7-10% in France, what is it in Australia? 1-1.5%? Well, wait awhile, I'm in no rush.

    Quote Originally Posted by curlyg View Post
    Europe's problem is not many cultures -- it is certain cultures which are in some ways incompatible with their own and cannot be easily reconciled.
    Europe's problem is that after it started 2 wars and failed to finish them on its own it lost its brain and moved to the la-la land of rosy ideologies and fake naivety. Europe's problem is that it was provided with American protection and didn't have to take care of itself and naturally brew this infantile approach. And most of all Europe is plagued with socialism in all its forms.

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    Re: And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

    The main reason multiculturalism fails as I see it is because governments don't try hard enough to assimilate people into their cultures. The biggest mistake is allowing private religious schools which takes the future generations out of the society they are expected to integrate into. Resentment then starts to grow on both sides which causes isolated communities rather than a true multicultural society.

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    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Re: And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

    Multiculti is on its face, an effort to NOT homogenize people. It's foundational aspect is that everything everywhere everyone must be respected and honored and preserved. Once you begin by turning the immigrant experience on its head and insist that everyone preserve their heritage and abandon all efforts at citizenship as if it's some evil vestige of colonialism then this is precisely what you get. In fact it's hard to call this failure at all since it's succeeded quite well in its stated goals.

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    Re: And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

    I think there's a worthwhile distinction between assimilation and integration. A country can be multicultural, but all of the various communities must be integrated into a greater whole. You can't be multicultural in the sense that you have dozens of distinct national entities forming within the borders of a state. But if for example Jews want to go to Jewish schools which combine Judaism with democratic values and civic education and language, i.e. the foundations of the local culture, I see no problem with that. I'd say the same about schools for all minorities. I don't think the aim should be to completely homogenize and assimilate everyone, but there's a minimal baseline required for integration. Immigrants who deliberately fail to internalise local values and learn the local language and customs can't expect those aspects of their behaviour to be tolerated. They've come to another country, the responsibility rests with them to adapt to it.

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    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Re: And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

    When the government actually stands between you and assimilating, on the premise that your heritage is more important then again, you wind up with ghettos filled with angry unemployable people not fluent in the local language, not cognizant of the local laws or customs.

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    Senior Member Kachah's Avatar
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    Re: And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

    Quote Originally Posted by curlyg View Post
    I think there's a worthwhile distinction between assimilation and integration. A country can be multicultural, but all of the various communities must be integrated into a greater whole..
    That's what I am talking about - even the semantics are too precious for the left-leaning. But no, curlyg, a country cannot be multicultural and remain democratic with integrated communities.
    Multiculturalism was developed as the very alternative to integration and as such is merely a vehicle to raise the vote count for the left in democratic societies. They import the very same people who in the Egyptian thread you rightly define as not prepared for living in the mature democracy - they import them and instead of educating and encouraging to follow mainstream tradition, absorb cornerstone values and learn - they praise their "culture" of origin and encourage to stick to it regardless of its nature. Combine this with the routine money handouts and still high standards of hygene, supply of basic services and free education - it's paradise! why would anybody try to learn language, work hard, try to move through the ranks? They confine themselves to gettos and eventually they produce leaders who call for re-org of the whole society according to their aggressive "culture". The same Palestinians whose "culture" is to elect Hamas to power - the same people are living here next door to us enjoying full respect of their "culture" from our state.
    By the way, another issue of multiculturalism is that in accordance with the socialist principles it removes personal responsibility from the person. It absolves the rapists and other thugs declaring them "victims" rather than perpetrators. Well, that's their culture...It is applied selectively of course - no leniency is granted if you are from mainstream culture, you have to fit the "disadvantaged minority" criteria. It's all intertwined, you can't just pick and chose: I want affirmative action but I don't want multiculturalism... Unfotunately the world has gone way too far down this road, the way back may be much harder than we think. Definitely in Europe.

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    Senior Member bararallu's Avatar
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    Re: And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

    "Affirmative action", at least the way it works in the US, is inherently racist.

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    Senior Member Mil's Avatar
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    Re: And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

    Europe scared itself sh***tless after and especially WWII. In WWII everyone was killing everyone else, not just Jews, and in numbers and ways not seen before. Euros were pretty much killing each other for a very long time, the main reason why America came into being. So they decided to resolve these "inherent problem" by artificially trying to become America. However, as it happened, much of the multicultural element they attracted were third world migrants, many from former colonies, who were not really into integration but mostly were looking for income. It just happens that third-world North Africa and ME is right there across the Med, these two places just happen to be very conservatively Muslim, and the region itself is very very unstable. I think the framers of European multiculturalism really expected other Europeans not some third-world illiterate migrants.
    Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.

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    Senior Member Kachah's Avatar
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    Re: And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

    Quote Originally Posted by bararallu View Post
    "Affirmative action", at least the way it works in the US, is inherently racist.
    Oh, absolutely so. But that's what I mean - it's the whole host of works, you can't arbitrarily switch them on and off.

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    Re: And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

    Quote Originally Posted by Kachah View Post
    That's what I am talking about - even the semantics are too precious for the left-leaning. But no, curlyg, a country cannot be multicultural and remain democratic with integrated communities.
    Why not? Jews are effectively semi-autonomous across the world in terms of having an independent religious leadership, independent education systems, Jewish political organisations and secular Jewish institutions, preservation of Hebrew language and so on. If integration and multiculturalism are impossible, neither you nor I can coherently be called "Australian Jews."

    By the way, another issue of multiculturalism is that in accordance with the socialist principles it removes personal responsibility from the person. It absolves the rapists and other thugs declaring them "victims" rather than perpetrators. Well, that's their culture...It is applied selectively of course - no leniency is granted if you are from mainstream culture, you have to fit the "disadvantaged minority" criteria. It's all intertwined, you can't just pick and chose: I want affirmative action but I don't want multiculturalism... Unfotunately the world has gone way too far down this road, the way back may be much harder than we think. Definitely in Europe.
    Are you referring to "cultural defenses"? In Australia the situation is quite good so far as these go. But I think you're overstating your point. There aren't many people who would be willing to come out in support of honor killings on the basis of cultural respect or whatever.

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    Senior Member Kachah's Avatar
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    Re: And that makes three: Multiculturalism is a failure

    Quote Originally Posted by curlyg View Post
    Why not? Jews are effectively semi-autonomous across the world in terms of having an independent religious leadership, independent education systems, Jewish political organisations and secular Jewish institutions, preservation of Hebrew language and so on. If integration and multiculturalism are impossible, neither you nor I can coherently be called "Australian Jews.".
    The Jews happen to be the founders of the mainstream judaeo-christian culture in Australia and -surprise! - all modern democratic countries. Even absolutely dominant christian majority admits it. Too bad for anybody outside of it - but then they are not forced to come and live here are they?
    Integration is possible, multiculturalism is racism and erosion of values.
    Quote Originally Posted by curlyg View Post
    Are you referring to "cultural defenses"? In Australia the situation is quite good so far as these go. But I think you're overstating your point. There aren't many people who would be willing to come out in support of honor killings on the basis of cultural respect or whatever.
    curlyg, the Bishop of Canterbury has suggested that sharia courts are given legitimacy - what more support for their barbaric rules do you want to see?
    Anyway, these Labor cretins are now re-surrecting this rotten corps of muti-culti and will be tackling "racism"... what a bunch of imbeciles!

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