It's an arab thing Reffo. Qaddafi now thinks he can call off the dogs by holding elections.
They also say a goldfish has a memory span of about 3 seconds so it obviously carries the same gene.
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It's an arab thing Reffo. Qaddafi now thinks he can call off the dogs by holding elections.
They also say a goldfish has a memory span of about 3 seconds so it obviously carries the same gene.
dayag: just a minor correction... our curent PM has repeatedly stated that he's ready to enter negotiations only after the PA recognizes Israel as a Jewish State...maybe that's not a precondition but just a condition?Originally Posted by dayag
As to the talks from which you say the Palestinians walked out in September: I can recall any ongoing talks in September. Perhaps you can refresh my memory?
Jorge, as far as I know Netanyahu laid out Israel's conditions for peace but did not make any preconditions for negotiations. In April he said:
source: http://arabia.msn.com/News/MiddleEas...l/4581854.aspx"I am willing to negotiate right now -- is the Palestinian leadership willing to do that? No. Because they want to avoid the negotiations -- they want an imposed solution," he said.
Now there is always the possibility that Netanyahu's position has changed since Hamas has become part of the government of the Palestinian Authority.
Direct talks began September 2, 2010:
source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...rael-palestine
Since the Israeli freeze on West Bank settlements ended, the Palestinians have refused further negotiations:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...68O1RJ20100927
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you, if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy." (Ps. 137: 5-7)"
"Any generation in which the Temple is not built, it is as if it had been destroyed in their times" (Yerushalmi, Yoma 1a).
And recognizing Israel as the Jewish state implies a non-partition of Jerusalem.
Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong but Abbas has made some statements in the last two days about not pursuing unilateral 'statehood' and instead wait for the UN to simply hand one to them.
Israeli leftists, and Gush Shalomnicks lead the chorus that says, Israel must make more and more concessions if they really want peace with their Arab neighbours. Are they right? Well, let's just see what is happening with Egypt right in front of our eyes ...
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...srael-1.368011
And in the same article ...The Egyptian al-Karama party, whose leader plans to run in the upcoming presidential elections, has said the cancellation of the Camp David Accords is its top priority, according to a report by the Egyptian newspaper Al-Masry Al-Youm on Thursday
One has to wonder what is happening there? Is it that Israel didn't make enough concessions to Egypt? And how is that working out?A recent poll by the U.S.-based Pew Research Center indicated that more than half of all Egyptians would like to see the 1979 peace treaty with Israel annulled, while only 36 percent of Egyptians are in favor of maintaining the treaty
Hands up those people who agree with me that if Israel would be stupid enough to agree to the 1967 boundries (the Aushwitz borders), the Palestinian Arabs too would do, a few years down the track, what Egypt is in the process of doing now ...
Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright
How so? The Arabs could have recognized Israel as a Jewish state before 1967 if they had so chose.
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you, if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy." (Ps. 137: 5-7)"
"Any generation in which the Temple is not built, it is as if it had been destroyed in their times" (Yerushalmi, Yoma 1a).
Lieberman tells Ashton straight:
source: http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPol...aspx?id=225434Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said in a meeting with his EU counterpart Catherine Ashton on Friday that if the Palestinians unilaterally declare statehood, it will bring an end to the Oslo Accords.
"A move like that will be a violation of all the agreements that were signed until today," Lieberman said. "Israel will no longer be committed to the agreements signed with the Palestinians in the past 18 years."
Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said in a meeting with his EU counterpart Catherine Ashton on Friday that if the Palestinians unilaterally declare statehood, it will bring an end to the Oslo Accords.
"A move like that will be a violation of all the agreements that were signed until today," Lieberman said. "Israel will no longer be committed to the agreements signed with the Palestinians in the past 18 years."
He added: "In light of [PA President Mahmoud] Abbas's current stance, the chances for negotiations are zero."
"Abbas is not interested in an agreement," the foreign minister explained. "He wants conflict, because that is his personal interest, even though it is against the Palestinians' interest, and many oppose him."
"Israel is prepared to renew negotiations. The ball is in the Palestinians' court," Lieberman said.
"If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you, if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy." (Ps. 137: 5-7)"
"Any generation in which the Temple is not built, it is as if it had been destroyed in their times" (Yerushalmi, Yoma 1a).
That is the current code for how it's understood now. The Jewish state has Jerusalem as its unified capital.
But in the bigger scheme it really doesn't matter. The Arabs will never agree to anything, ever. No matter what they are offered. Even, as a thought experiment if they were offered the non-existence of Israel, they'd turn it down. Everyone knows that.
Well if Egypt does indeed scrap the peace treaty, Israel is up for having lots of right-wing governments...
Let's see what happens in Egypt in the following months.
watOn
Of course you are right, about the "wait and see ...". Nevertheless, it's fair to say that I don't like how it seems to be shaping up ...
By the way, all I want is for Israel to have governments that govern for the good of Israel and Israelis. Whether they are leftists or of the right is only of secondary importance to me.
And when I say "for the good of Israel", I don't mean intentions. I mean ACTUAL results.
Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright
The way it would unravel is Egypt would precipitate a series of provocative events and then claim that any reaction to them is sufficient justification for disacarding the treaty. It would be interesting to see them disentangle from their gas pipeline agreement which also fuels a huge percentage of Jordan's energy needs. I guess they get thrown under the bus, but who cares?
I think if you replace CCCP with Iran you'll see a replay of the events that lead up to the 6-day war.
Iran doesn't have the kesev, or strategic depth of the USSR. It's a junior power and will remain being such.
As a continuation of my Post #13 where I touched on the question of the continuing deadlock in negotiations and of what the passage of time may affect the evolution of the conflict; President Peres last week had the following to say on that same matter:
" I'm concerned about the continued deadlock. I'm concerned that Israel will become a bi-national state. What is happening right now is sheer foot-dragging. We're about to crash into the wall. We are galloping at full speed toward a situation where we will lose the State of Israel as a Jewish state. "
Last edited by Jorge; 06-18-2011 at 11:48 AM. Reason: I missed some words
When are we finally rid of this unelected zombie? Bibi should send Peres to Mecca during the next Ramadan. He is possibly the only Jew to survive the hornets nest.. and deliver the payload: He'll bore them to absolute atomic entropy. He may evoke the heat death of the universe while he's at it.
His actual opinion amounts to: אפס
Always has been and will continue to be so.
The country has moved on from the Left Elitist run social conflagration, their silly economics and their pathetic entreats to a blood thirsty enemy. Enough of the USSR-Lite old guard. And good riddance too. от первого до последнего.
In his Post #18, dayag comments on an earlier observation of mine about making recognition of Israel as a Jewish State as a precondition for re-opening negotiations:
Jorge, as far as I know Netanyahu laid out Israel's conditions for peace but did not make any preconditions for negotiations.
Well I admit that I might be wrong because the rhetoric of Mr. Netanyahu is so contorted that it often confuses me. But in his famous Bar Ilan speech he did say (quote):
Therefore, a fundamental prerequisite for ending the conflict is a public, binding and unequivocal Palestinian recognition of Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people.
And in his speech at the Knesset in Nov., 2010:
"If the Palestinian leadership will say unequivocally to its people that it recognizes Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people, I will be ready to convene my government and request a further suspension."
(meaning "a further suspension" of the settlement freeze). I might be able to dig out further quotes, but it's not worth the effort because for every speech or interview in which Mr. Netanyahu raised the question of the recognition, my opponents in the debate may dig out many others in which he did not mention it. So, I will concede the point, and assert:
'Our present Government is not conditioning the re-opening of negotiations to a prior Palestinian recognition of Israel as a Jewish State'
However, going back to the above-mentioned Knesset speech, our PM apparently thought the issue of said recognition as more important than the settlement freeze. Now, since the Palestinians discontinued the talks about negotiations of last September ( and thanks dayag for refreshing my memory; I had forgotten them) because the suspension was not extended further, one may conclude that the real reason of the present deadlock in negotiations is the Palestinians refusal to recognize the Jewishness of our State. So perhaps I should append my assertion above and re-write it as:
'Our present Government is not conditioning the re-opening of negotiations to a prior Palestinian recognition of Israel as a Jewish State, but negotiations are not being pursued because of the refusal of the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish State'
That way the blame for not re-opening negotiations is laid squarely on Palestinian shoulders... and rightly so.
====
I am not privy to Mr. Peres inner thinking but perhaps this was at what our President was hinting out in the paragraph I quoted in my last Post. By insisting in putting forward the recognition of the Jewishness of our State as a pre-requisite and other tricks of the sort we might end with a situation where, in Mr. Peres words, "we will lose the State of Israel as a Jewish state".
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