spoke with a palestinian today...

[victot]

it was nice. through this girl i had met at a school event, (american students thanksgiving dinner, with a special invitation to the hillel students) 1 of this girl's friends at the bar we went to afterwards was a palestinian, born in lebanon in a camp, and her parents are muslims, though she says she's mostly secular. i think she might be the first real palestinian i ever talked to for a prolonged period of time.

she was really sweet, though im guessing she wasn't reprentative of most palestinians, in the sense that she had a general hatred for all the politics and stuff to to do with the ME. anywho, she was totally nice, she said she hates all the deaths that were going on there, the suffering and stuff, and she said that when palestinian mothers lose their children, its the same thing for israeli mothers who lose their children. she said not to think that all palestinians were for violence, or even as i understood it, not to think that all palestinians were against jewish people to have a majority jewish country in the middle east, (though she ultimately thought it would be best if it was somethign more like no borders, and just everyone hanging out with everyone.)

anyways, with everythign that happens, with all the negative stuff in the middle east, and all the negative stuff that happens stemming from it, i thought it would be good to have a glimpse of the nicer things, when they happen. i like the idea of the jewish people being a "light to other nations" and if possible, we should try not to get too hard and rough and war-like, if possible... you know, not overly anti any military responses ever, and not anti-nationalism like the far left seem to be, but also not the exact opposite.

anyways, peace.

[Batman]

[i]

anyways, with everythign that happens, with all the negative stuff in the middle east, and all the negative stuff that happens stemming from it, i thought it would be good to have a glimpse of the nicer things, when they happen. i like the idea of the jewish people being a "light to other nations" and if possible, we should try not to get too hard and rough and war-like, if possible... you know, not overly anti any military responses ever, and not anti-nationalism like the far left seem to be, but also not the exact opposite.

anyways, peace. [/B]

I am personally tired of the idea of being a "light to other nations" although i think it's in Jewish blood not to kill or be too cruel or erupt in a war like response anyway...

it's Jewish destiny, simply by the Jewish nature of enjoying being studious and solving problems with the mind rather than the fist to end up being 'a light to other nations.' But to remember the Holocaust and not repeat history is a much more important lesson for Jews than to be ' the light ' everyone tries to extinguish so as to gain by Jews' loss...

think about it and think about the history! it proves the point

Peace cannot come unless there is justice and truth and true kindness (to one's self first in order to benefit the rest too) which means that Jews have to defend their lives and the lives of their children not lie down and die and allow evil to proliferate...That is the true 'light' and it may not be so popular for those who want to live in unreality but "choosing life' is choosing to be a light!

[Miriam]

Originally posted by Batman


it's Jewish destiny, simply by the Jewish nature of enjoying being studious and solving problems with the mind rather than the fist to end up being 'a light to other nations.' But to remember the Holocaust and not repeat history is a much more important lesson for Jews than to be ' the light ' everyone tries to extinguish so as to gain by Jews' loss...

think about it and think about the history! it proves the point

Peace cannot come unless there is justice and truth and true kindness (to one's self first in order to benefit the rest too) which means that Jews have to defend their lives and the lives of their children not lie down and die and allow evil to proliferate...That is the true 'light' and it may not be so popular for those who want to live in unreality but "choosing life' is choosing to be a light!

Please remember that problem-solving "by the fist" also requires proper advance brainwork - a thing IMO sorely lacking at the moment on the Jewish side

[L@mplighterM]

It’s easy to be a critic!

[minusthejihad]

Originally posted by victot
it was nice. through this girl i had met at a school event, (american students thanksgiving dinner, with a special invitation to the hillel students) 1 of this girl's friends at the bar we went to afterwards was a palestinian, born in lebanon in a camp, and her parents are muslims, though she says she's mostly secular. i think she might be the first real palestinian i ever talked to for a prolonged period of time.

she was really sweet, though im guessing she wasn't reprentative of most palestinians, in the sense that she had a general hatred for all the politics and stuff to to do with the ME. anywho, she was totally nice, she said she hates all the deaths that were going on there, the suffering and stuff, and she said that when palestinian mothers lose their children, its the same thing for israeli mothers who lose their children. she said not to think that all palestinians were for violence, or even as i understood it, not to think that all palestinians were against jewish people to have a majority jewish country in the middle east, (though she ultimately thought it would be best if it was somethign more like no borders, and just everyone hanging out with everyone.)

anyways, with everythign that happens, with all the negative stuff in the middle east, and all the negative stuff that happens stemming from it, i thought it would be good to have a glimpse of the nicer things, when they happen. i like the idea of the jewish people being a "light to other nations" and if possible, we should try not to get too hard and rough and war-like, if possible... you know, not overly anti any military responses ever, and not anti-nationalism like the far left seem to be, but also not the exact opposite.

anyways, peace.

I talk to my Palestinian friends all the time and I find myself saying, "Sorry your family and people have to be pawns in the Arab's struggle to rid the world of Jews. Anyway, how are things?"

[Miriam]

Originally posted by minusthejihad
I talk to my Palestinian friends all the time and I find myself saying, "Sorry your family and people have to be pawns in the Arab's struggle to rid the world of Jews. Anyway, how are things?"

Do they reply to the first sentence?

[shoshannah]

Originally posted by victot
it was nice. through this girl i had met at a school event, (american students thanksgiving dinner, with a special invitation to the hillel students) 1 of this girl's friends at the bar we went to afterwards was a palestinian, born in lebanon in a camp, and her parents are muslims, though she says she's mostly secular. i think she might be the first real palestinian i ever talked to for a prolonged period of time.
<snip>

That is one of the things that I find so frustrating (and I wrote about this in the past )- in one on one talk (or work) with Palestinians we can get along, debate, understadnd, and decide to agree (or disagree). But for some reason, when the focus shifts from the personal area to the national one, everything goes horribly wrong.

[Miriam]

Originally posted by victot

she said not to think that all palestinians were for violence, or even as i understood it, not to think that all palestinians were against jewish people to have a majority jewish country in the middle east

Would be nice if there were such a thing as top-level Palestinians sharing the same benevolent worldview.

[Miriam]

Originally posted by shoshannah
That is one of the things that I find so frustrating (and I wrote about this in the past )- in one on one talk (or work) with Palestinians we can get along, debate, understadnd, and decide to agree (or disagree). But for some reason, when the focus shifts from the personal area to the national one, everything goes horribly wrong.

It is natural, isn't it? Dealing with someone, a Jew, on personal level is one thing. Being a member of a group that essentially defines itself through its antagonism towards Jews is a different one.

[sharonbn]

I remember when I was a teenager we met with a group of Palestinians teenager in my highschool and on another occasion, met with a group of hassidic teenagers.

For some reason, I had better communication and understanding with the Palestinians then he hassidic ....

[Mediocrates]

I was going to tell you this story about Yugoslavians I know, of German heritage, who got along well with their Croatian neighbors until they started killing one another. I've been to their weddings and watched them dance with one another and then later on I heard how they returned home joined the army and committed atrocities on one another.

But I decided that I'm in too good a mood to roll in the muck.

[I am David]

Sharonbn: I would have expected such a statement by some like you.

Don't think that the Palestinians are more rationale or that the're more cool headed and reasonable than hasidim. But personally I am disgusted at the thought that you found a bunch of teenagers coming from a group of people who 70% of which support the act of killing innocents like you, more agreable and "understandable" than your own poeple. I think you just said that to make a point rather than state what really happened.

Sharon I think with that statement you are playing of the commonly accepted stereotypical image of a hassidim, that is one of extreme and unreasonable views, to make your point. On the contrare, hasidim are normal like you or I, and their extreme religous views does not cloud their normal judgement.

Even if you did find that particular group of Palestinians to be more "communicable" than the hassidim, it really is irrellevant. Those teenagers don't represent the mass majority of Palestine, so it doesn't matter if they were the most intelligent people in the world!

[Batman]

Originally posted by sharonbn
I remember when I was a teenager we met with a group of Palestinians teenager in my highschool and on another occasion, met with a group of hassidic teenagers.

For some reason, I had better communication and understanding with the Palestinians then he hassidic ....

Sad.
how easily we are persuaded by outer impressions of likeness, perhaps your self image is that of a secular Jew, so identifying with people who appear secular is easier...

also, perhaps you feel less pressure identifying with people who are NOT of your own people, it's like the stranger on the train, we can communicate more easily and openly with those to whom we will not have too many ties in the future...

those Chasidim, due to not necessarilly their own fault but just because of their faith to the Jewish tradition and garb, may have also made you feel like an outsider to your own self, perhaps you wanted to avoid that feeling- since you were not about to become a Chassid at any time soon...but the relating with the Palestinians you did not need to identify with their essence (thus questioning your present beliefs or lack of beliefs, etc)

It's a lot easier to relate when there is no committment to really inspect our own choices and possibly have to make some changes...

i am not saying everyone should be a chassid, but please take a deeper look at your inner truth...we are usually comfortable with those who are more like us - at least on first glance- besides - when you say Chassid, which kind do you mean? I have met some Lubavich Chassids and they are SO FRIENDLY that i think you may have met some other Chassids who do not really mingle with secular Jews...

ps: read post #14 re; Hebron and do not trust these seeminly friendly exterior gestures you wish could be true...history tells a different story

[Batman]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
I was going to tell you this story about Yugoslavians I know, of German heritage, who got along well with their Croatian neighbors until they started killing one another. I've been to their weddings and watched them dance with one another and then later on I heard how they returned home joined the army and committed atrocities on one another.

But I decided that I'm in too good a mood to roll in the muck.

Well, sounds like you just describe the Hebron Massacre of 1929 when the Arab neighbors broke into the homes of the Jews and viciously murdered and raped them, all the while the Jews were calling them by name!!!!!! because they've all been sharing meals together in each others homes for many years before the massacre!

After that there were no more Jews in Hebron till after 1968. That's how the Arabs show their neighborly love!

Sorry about ruining your good mood...

[Batman]

Originally posted by Miriam
Please remember that problem-solving "by the fist" also requires proper advance brainwork - a thing IMO sorely lacking at the moment on the Jewish side

you're right... what's IMO?