i mean 1948 of course!
what it took in 1967 left nothing for the palestinians and was not accepted by the world. War will continue as long as israel occupies it.
Home | i mean 1948 of course!
what it took in 1967 left nothing for the palestinians and was not accepted by the world. War will continue as long as israel occupies it.
i am happy to see that you agree to see the fact that you can't stop terrorism with a wall or with pre-emptive strikes. in fact in 1967 israel inflicted terrorism on itself, the years before had been of relative calm in the middle-east, since 1967 made so many ennemies and the oppression in the occupied territories provoked so much violence that many Israeli see today that it was a big mistake. Since 1967 European, left-wing and other sympathy for Israel (which was still quite strong due to what happened in WWII) got a big blow(was already diminished after the war of 1955). The war in 1967 was certainly no act of self-defense and had no reasons other than to grap more land.
The gap between Arab and Western civilisation isn't very big, to convince yourself of that you shouldn't read hatefull books but visit Arab countries and talk to Arabs, if you go to Jordan, Iraq, Tunisia (i even saw gays kissing on the street or women in such short pants that it would be impropre even in France) or even to Iran, people think more modern and more modern than most Jews who live in Jerusalem (what i saw there was a car being stoned because it drove on saturday, such extreme acts of religious fanatism are unlikely in most muslim countries, excpet extreme ones as Saoudi Arabia or Afghanistan) .
the real gap is between extremists who think their own race /religious/social group has more rights is more important than other races or religions and people who think of human equality. tolerance versus intolerance, leftist versus rightwing, this gap is going trough Israeli as well as trough many Muslim societies.
about a palestinian state: Israel is surrounded by Arab states, yet they prove to be more of a problem to Israel when they are occupied(palestine, libanon) than when they are not occupied. (the others+Libanon since 2 years), which is normal of course, when they are free of occupation they have no more reason to fight.
about deterrance: that is right, but with nuclear weapons you can do nothing against terrorism and the fight of an entire people against occupation. Besides you should try to make friends in the region, the Israeli superiority will not last for ever, and when you cretae too many ennemies they will unite one day to destroy you. A peace-treaty is a more efficient and long-lasting way to stop violence than weapons, because it is not sure at all how long Israel will remain military superior (it is not even today if you count iran and pakistan with the Arab states) . By the way it will boost Israeli economy, many investors don't want to invest in a country that is cronically unstable and at war and doesn't has and trade with its neighbours.
Quote from takeo:
"And talking about DNA, appearances DOES influence DNA"
What utter nonsense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For more than 50 years Israel has been trying to have peace with its neighbors.Originally posted by takeo
A peace-treaty is a more efficient and long-lasting way to stop violence than weapons...
Do we need to mention yet again that there were several peace offers made to Palestinians (backed by the EU, the US, Russia, etc.) which would have resulted in a second Palestinian state, and that they rejected peace repeatedly?
I'm not so sure that peace is a concept that can work with the Palestinians based on their dismal track record of terrorism and Jihad.
Sadly, true peace may not be possible between Israel and Arafatistan.
Peace with a demon will never happen.
Hope you all wont mind if I mention something that has been gettin on my NERVES for years.
I come from the US. And in the US the word "neighbor" conjures up people talking to each other accross the back fence or inviting each other over for a Bar B Que, going to Football games together or wives shopping together ...things like that. Friends of some kind and on some level.
Do you think that ANY of the Arab Countries close to Israel can ever been even labeled any kind of "neighbor"? NEVER. They dont have the slightest understanding of the word. They never intend now or at any time to be any kind of neighbor. I wish the h-ll everyone, including the Israeli officials would stop using that word when applied to the Arab Countries in that area. Gives a complete unrealistic impression.
-----------------------------
TakeO...by all means lets not let science and facts get in the way of what you want. Cant have that!
Raven and lomplighter, why do i even bother answering your utter nonsences? Your extremism is so exaggerated that you are more anti-propaganda than propaganda for the israeli cause.
Raven, your DNA-story and Creta-story are so incredible and over the edge that it could be used by anti-israeli propaganda to show that "you can't talk with nutcases and fascists", also the love-declarations of Lomplighter to established fascists as Le Pen and his raw racist hatred don't need much comment.
And again: people who look like Africans or Arabs will not have the same DNA as people with nordic looks, that is pretty obvious, isn't it? Identical twins have the same looks and the same DNA, so looks are one of the tools to mesure DNA. Besides didn't i told you that all the khasars converted to jewish religion (and probably many others as well during 2000 years) mixed with jews, and khasars certainly didn't have the same DNA as people who left Israel, but anyway, does it matter who lived there 2000 years ago, except for history?
Newsguy has a more sophisticated and elaborated opinion, the diplomatic face of right-wing Israel, which makes it more dangerous and interesting.
About peace instead of war: you start again about the fact that the Palestinians refused the offer of 2000. well, this is true because this plan had some unacceptable consequnces for the palestinians(accepting settlements, no solutions for the refugees) , but after some months, even during the new intifadeh, new negociations began about the points that weren't resolved in camp david because the barak-government retreated from its earlier point that talking about the unsettled questions was out of the question. after the election of sharon everything stopped and violence escalated to a point of no return.
well, palestinians have the right to refuse any offer israel makes, as long as the offer of Israel doesn't meet the un-declarations they have the right not to accept. In Oslo many things were not mentioned, with the result that palestinians got almost nothing in return for peace, and several unwilling governments could build more settlements, etc. Peace has to come from two sides, and it is not impossible, it will be possible if Israel is ready to give back the occupied territories, accept an independant palestine and talk about the refugee question, so that at least some of the refugees can return to their ancestral lands. Such a deal would be endorsed by a majority of the palestinians and by the international community, it would mean total peace for Israel (and IF the palestinians would attack Israel again,which is very unlikely, than you are right Israel would have the right to strike back and pals would have very few defenders, not even me)
So far israel was never ready to accept the un-resolutions, nowadays accepted by the arabs but not by Israel. (some decades ago it was the inverse)
Yes Arabs are neighbours, not good neighbours (because you are no good neighbour to them) but anyway neighbours, unless you evict them or consider them not to be human, which wouldn't surprise me in the case of lomplighter or raven. (don't you have any theory that prooves that Palestinians come from Saturnus?)
We have a problem. A problem for the entire world. We have on our hands a significant group of a Billion and a Half people, uneducated, really racist (theres been no discussion of racism in the Arab World-- its rapant) and violent, with a screw loose. What is the West and all other peoples that want Freedom going to do about these people?
Listen to this person. Not only is this person appararantly uneducated in science, ( no concept of DNA science for example) you can see Nazi type racism peep thru. I never thought Id say anything was worse than Germany, but I believe the situation is worse now. Same ideology, but with a Billion or so people ready to act on this philosophy. We havent yet faced up to the implications of this, each country trying to be "politically correct". Islam knows this and is playing it for all it is worth. Every minute we let this go on and deny that we are in big trouble, and identify and define the real problem...helps this humungous group.
Where in my post did you racism and fascism?
perhaps in the part where i condamned DNA to be legitimate basis of human selection who can live and who can't live???
DNA testing will show IF you lied about who you are, and therefore lied about actually living in an area for any significant time...then if caught in that BIG LIE, then you do NOT have the right to take over someone's land filled with people that can PROVE thru DNA that they are indeed who they say they are and remain that way and ARE the origional inhabitants-- the only origional peoples of that time that are left. Everybody that was there thousands of years ago gave up, gave in, blended in, but WE DIDNT. We ARE still here. Despite what you and others tried so hard to do thru the millenium.
So sorry. I cant just make a story up that, Im orgionally Sweedish, I always lived in Sweeden and that therefore I have a right to part of that country for my own...or the same in say....China...or the same in say the US....or anywhere. The DNA testing would show that this isnt true.
This Pal story is nothing but a made up current story... (late 50's)from beginning to end. DNA will show this. Pack your bags for Crete and Greece or...half of Jordan. ( lots of intermarriage with peoples from Jordan...so you can have THAT COUNTRY) The little Puppet of the US...the Jordian "King" wont like that. (course he isnt origionally Jordaian either...from Saudi Arabian family...kicked out of Saudi Arabia) His Dad and Grandad didnt like when Pals tried to steal their country and let you know it. Very little talk about that. Almost like it didnt happen. Wonder why such a blackout on that subject.
Try going to school. Try learning... other than learning only to get knowledge to blow up the "infidel". Get out of the "coffee houses" that are so popular with Islamic Men.
Let me see now!!! One day you're against Sharon the next you're for him. You're an Arab posing as a Jew running around in a Burka. You've studied the major religions. This is difficult to take in.
Now you've become a DNA scientist specializing in DNA sequencing. Perhaps now you have discovered what comes first "The apple or the Arabs".
Your reasoning is totally illogical and has no scientific foundation. You’ve got it backwards.
lomplighter and raven, you are so funny!!!
I asked you a billion of times that you should give any proove that palestinians came from "creta", untill now you didn't.
And if you really want a dNA-analysis, ok, go on, i'm sure that the palestinians who stayed in the area are closer to the original Jews than those who went all over the world and mixed with all people around the world( which made us a quite interesting and devellopped people, but not as original as the palestinians, which doesn't matter at all).
but as i told you a million times before, it doesn't really matter which DNA you have, nobody in Sweden will be asked to proove his DNA to show that he is a real swede of pure Germanic ascendance(in that case jews and Gypsies would have to leave Sweden). If his family lived in Sweden that is more than enough prove. as sweden is a democratic western country, not a fascist country. DNA testing would also w-proove that the current inhabitants of greece are closer to the original inhabitants of Turkey than the current Turks. You are really blind if you can't see that such devellopment is pure racism and fascism.
I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about takeo you seem to be somewhat mixed up lately.
I’ve never mentioned DNA analysis in regards to any specific group of people.
You haven't asked me dick and even if you did I wouldn't jump for an Arab. I don't take orders. If you want somone to take your order go to a restaurant.
you didn't raven did
Hallelujah Praise the Lord that' twice you admitted to being mistaken in a week.
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