The rest of the Goldstone Committee tears itself apart

[Mediocrates]

Give them more sharp knives I say. Let them butcher and eat one another.

http://www.thecommentator.com/articl...ldstone_anyway

The statement said:
“In recent days some articles and comments appearing in the press with respect to the report of the United Nations (UN) fact-finding mission on the Gaza conflict of 2008-2009 have misrepresented facts in an attempt to delegitimise the findings of this report and to cast doubts on its credibility”.
And, the authors added:


“Aspersions cast on the findings of the report, nevertheless, cannot be left unchallenged. Members of the mission, signatories to this statement, find it necessary to dispel any impression that subsequent developments have rendered any part of the mission's report unsubstantiated, erroneous or inaccurate”.

[redactor]

Here is a very interesting view from the Jewish writer Norman Finkelstein. As he points out no new evidence has been produced, and if Israel had new evidence on the attack on the Al Samouni home, (which happened after the family had been told to take shelter there) then why would Israel not have released that evidence? Where is the new drone photo that Goldstone refers to?

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/04/finkel...-produced.html

[Womble]

Here is a very interesting view from the Jewish writer Norman Finkelstein. As he points out no new evidence has been produced, and if Israel had new evidence on the attack on the Al Samouni home, (which happened after the family had been told to take shelter there) then why would Israel not have released that evidence? Where is the new drone photo that Goldstone refers to?

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/04/finkel...-produced.html

1) You're not going to impress anyone with Finkelstein's ramblings around here. The name is too well known; he has a history of absolutely nutty statements against Israel, and not just Israel.

For that matter, linking to Mondoweiss is about as impressive as citing Finkelstein. Discredited source, you know.

2) Why does it matter if Finkelstein is Jewish by birth? (He isn't Jewish in any other sense, to the point of admitting in one of his interviews that he "has no experience in the American Jewish community" at all). Does his ethnic lineage add some kind of special authority to his claims?

2) The evidence isn't new, it was new to Goldstone. In part it was because Israel refused to cooperate with the Goldstone commission due to its overtly biased mandate and composition (and Israel was right to do so; individual Israelis who chose to testify before the Goldstone commission had their testimonies ignored; in one instance, Goldstone fell asleep during the testimony of a woman who was severely wounded by a Palestinian missile). In part it was because Goldstone et al didn't bother doing any kind of independent research; they simply collected the claims of Palestinian organizations and took them as gospel even though the most cursory Google search would have shown half of their claims to be false.

[redactor]

Around here? My that is polite. You didn't read the post did you? Point 1 and the first of your points no 2 are not worth wasting my time on. The second point no 2 doesn't say anything. You make an unsubstantiated allegation about the composition of the commission. Now let's try again shall we. Where is the new evidence that Goldstone is talking about? Where is the new drone photo that shows that the attack on the Al Samouni home was based on a credible identified military threat? Can we please discuss that?

[redactor]

The rest of the Goldstone Committee tears itself apart.'

Your headline would imply that the 'rest of the commitee,' (actually known as a majority) disagree with each other. They do not. It is a single individual who has chosen to question (but not retract) a finding without providing any evidence as to why they should do that. That is what your quote says, and neither it nor the article deserve your spin on this issue.

[Womble]

Around here? My that is polite.

Polite? You barge in here acting like a prophet of God bringing a new and shiny truth to the masses, and you don't know the basic things. This is something that happens on this forum all the time, and most forum members are simply sick of this repetition.

You didn't read the post did you?

I've read it. Wasn't impressed.

Point 1 and the first of your points no 2 are not worth wasting my time on.

So by all means, keep your time to yourself. Why waste it here?

The second point no 2 doesn't say anything. You make an unsubstantiated allegation about the composition of the commission.

Unsubstantiated?

The original mandate was decried even by longtime Israel-haters like Mary Robinson and by Richard Goldstone himself, who insisted on "informally widening" the mandate so that he could claim at least some semblance of even-handedness.

All four members of the commission, Goldstone included were on record as having already made up their mind before any investigation even began. At least half a dozen requests were filed to remove Christine Chinkin from the commission because of her on-record statements that she already "knew" that Israel has committed war crimes; the other thwo plus Goldstone himself were signatories to an open letter to the UN to the same effect.

Now let's try again shall we. Where is the new evidence that Goldstone is talking about? Where is the new drone photo that shows that the attack on the Al Samouni home was based on a credible identified military threat? Can we please discuss that?

That new evidence is found in the annexes of a follow-up report to the UNHCR which was filed on March 18, shortly before Goldstone's op-ed. The report can be found online (you are, I hope, capable of Googling), but the attached documentation is not. As the investigation is ongoing and the drone image constitutes evidence (not to mention that it is classified military material), it was not, of course, made public; that's elementary law thing, and Finkelstein is being his usual disingenious self. However, this information was confirmed by a journalistic investigation of the Haaretz newspaper (Israel's most Palestinian paper, heh) and by the Breaking the Silence NGO which interviewed some of the soldiers.

[redactor]

Polite? You barge in here acting like a prophet of God bringing a new and shiny truth to the masses, and you don't know the basic things. This is something that happens on this forum all the time, and most forum members are simply sick of this repetition.

No one barged in. Your comparison with a prophet is ridiculous. I note that your agression is due to the fact that you cannot accept that there are different views on this issue. Your tactics will not work with me, as I only deal in facts.


I've read it. Wasn't impressed.


So by all means, keep your time to yourself. Why waste it here?


Unsubstantiated?

The original mandate was decried even by longtime Israel-haters like Mary Robinson and by Richard Goldstone himself, who insisted on "informally widening" the mandate so that he could claim at least some semblance of even-handedness.

All four members of the commission, Goldstone included were on record as having already made up their mind before any investigation even began. At least half a dozen requests were filed to remove Christine Chinkin from the commission because of her on-record statements that she already "knew" that Israel has committed war crimes; the other thwo plus Goldstone himself were signatories to an open letter to the UN to the same effect.


This is simply not true, and that is why you have provided no evidence for your 'claim.'

That new evidence is found in the annexes of a follow-up report to the UNHCR which was filed on March 18, shortly before Goldstone's op-ed. The report can be found online (you are, I hope, capable of Googling), but the attached documentation is not. As the investigation is ongoing and the drone image constitutes evidence (not to mention that it is classified military material), it was not, of course, made public; that's elementary law thing, and Finkelstein is being his usual disingenious self. However, this information was confirmed by a journalistic investigation of the Haaretz newspaper (Israel's most Palestinian paper, heh) and by the Breaking the Silence NGO which interviewed some of the soldiers.

If the report can be found online then why not post a link. You are capable of doing that I hope? If a new image exists then why has Israel not included it among the hundreds that have already been released. You clearly did not read the article, or you would know that. If there is new evidence then why is Goldstone the only one who has seen i?

[Womble]

This is simply not true, and that is why you have provided no evidence for your 'claim.'

1) Learn to use the goddamn quote function.

2) Learn to goddamn Google.

3) If you can't learn to goddamn Google, at least learn to go to the goddamn Wikipedia before you type nonsense. And if you're up for additional challenge, find and follow the reference links at the bottom of the page.

If the report can be found online then why not post a link. You are capable of doing that I hope?

Because I wanted to see if you can Google. Apparently not. You're one of those who refuse to do their own research even on the level of clicking your computer mouse a few times.

Here it is.

If there is new evidence then why is Goldstone the only one who has seen i?

Because it's evidence in an ongoing investigation. Because it's classified military information from which one could learn too much about Israeli army's drone surveillance tactics. Because you're a nobody and Finkelstein is just as much a nobody, and no one owes that information to you or to him, only to the people actually relevant to the investigation. Take your pick.

[Mediocrates]

http://www.thecommentator.com/articl...port_at_the_un

Basically Goldstone was a token Jew installed to give 'legitimacy' to a commission which had completed its report before it began.

[redactor]

1) Learn to use the goddamn quote function.

Learn some goddam manners. The fact that you are clearly not used to having your posts questioned is no excuse for bad manners. is the pressure too much for you? is no allowed to question your authority?

2) Learn to goddamn Google. Learn to back up your claims with evidence or don't make them.

3) If you can't learn to goddamn Google, at least learn to go to the goddamn Wikipedia before you type nonsense. And if you're up for additional challenge, find and follow the reference links at the bottom of the page. Learn to back up your GODDAM claims with evidence or don't make them.


Because I wanted to see if you can Google. Apparently not. You're one of those who refuse to do their own research even on the level of clicking your computer mouse a few times. Learn to back up your claims with evidence or don't make them.

Here it is.


Because it's evidence in an ongoing investigation. Because it's classified military information from which one could learn too much about Israeli army's drone surveillance tactics. Because you're a nobody and Finkelstein is just as much a nobody, and no one owes that information to you or to him, only to the people actually relevant to the investigation. Take your pick.

Again I ask the question why would this drone photo not be released IF IT PROVED ISRAEL's case? Your remarks about nobody owing an explanation are infantile. The UN is owed an explanation, and the sooner Israel co operates the sooner we will have the truth. Have you learnt nothing from this report?

Now getting to your evidence. This quote from the document proves that you are wrong.

'The Committee does not have sufficient information to establish the current status of
the on-going criminal investigations into the killings of Ateya and Ahmad Samouni, the
attack on the Wa’el al-Samouni house and the shooting of Iyad Samouni. This is of
considerable concern: reportedly 24 civilians were killed and 19 were injured in the related
incidents on 4 and 5 January 2009.14 Furthermore, the events may relate both to the actions
and decisions of soldiers on the ground and of senior officers located in a war room, as well
as to broader issues implicating the rules of engagement and the use of drones. There are
also reports indicating that the MAG’s decision to investigate was opposed by the then
Head of the IDF Southern Command.15 Media reports further inform that a senior officer,
who was questioned “under caution”16 and had his promotion put on hold,17 told
investigators that he was not warned that civilians were at the location.18 However, some of
those civilians had been ordered there by IDF soldiers from that same officer’s’ unit and air
force officers reportedly informed him of the possible presence of civilians.19 Despite
allegedly being made aware of this information, the officer apparently approved air strikes20
that killed 21 people and injured 19 gathered in the al-Samouni house. Media sources also
report that the incident has been described as a legitimate interpretation of drone
photographs portrayed on a screen21 and that the special command investigation, initiated
ten months after the incidents,22 did not conclude that there had been anything out of the
ordinary in the strike.23 As of 24 October 2010, according to media reports, no decision
had been made as to whether or not the officer would stand trial.24 The same officer who
assertedly called in the strike reportedly insisted that ambulances not enter the sector under
his control, fearing attempts to kidnap soldiers.25'

Media reports are not evidence to the committee. For your claim to be true Goldstone would have had to have been shown a photo that has not been shown to anyone else. This is nonsense. Your so called evidence proves your claim wrong. Did you really think that no one would check?

[redactor]

http://www.thecommentator.com/articl...port_at_the_un

Basically Goldstone was a token Jew installed to give 'legitimacy' to a commission which had completed its report before it began.

Your claim is nonsense. Simple as that.

[Aliyah1995]

Your claim is nonsense. Simple as that.

Prove it's nonsense. Give me a link....:-)

[redactor]

Prove it's nonsense. Give me a link....:-)

Post 10 read it.