Israeli Intellectuals Press for Palestinian State

[redactor]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/wo...ss&emc=rss

The move to peace really does seem unstoppable now. Following on from the Palestine Papers there are now a number of similar proposals to be considered.

'Dozens of Israel’s most honored intellectuals and artists have signed a declaration endorsing a Palestinian state on the basis of the 1967 lines and asserting that an end to Israel’s occupation “will liberate the two peoples and open the way to a lasting peace.”'

[farmboy]

Did you run out of ink? or was the edited quote of the doccument deliberate thinking we wouldn't open the link?

and on the basis of further agreed arrangements between the two sides.

Agreement requires negotiation which the PA has refused to participate in. Here we can substitute "Cloud 9ers" for the word intellectuals.
Israel has the right to defensible borders so forget the dream of 1967 lines cos that aint never going to happen.

[redactor]

Did you run out of ink? or was the edited quote of the doccument deliberate thinking we wouldn't open the link?

Agreement requires negotiation which the PA has refused to participate in. Here we can substitute "Cloud 9ers" for the word intellectuals.
Israel has the right to defensible borders so forget the dream of 1967 lines cos that aint never going to happen.

The Palestine Papers show that the Palestinians are prepared to make great compromises. The offer will give Israel everything it needs for peace and security. It it Israel that is not prepared to negotiate. Your point about the '67 borders is nonsense. Israel has nuclear chemical and biological weapons for defense. The exact shape of the borders is irrelevant. The Palestinians have stated that they will only have small arms. Your claim is just an excuse that will not stop the real peace process. Did you think that we do not already know that? Unlike your stance the peace offer has been thought through, and since opinion polls consistently show that the majority of Israelis support peace on the '67 borders your view is only that, a personal view.

[Womble]

"Peace" and "Palestinian state" are not the same thing. You can have a Palestinian state and no peace.

The Palestine Papers don't show any Palestinian willingness to compromise. There were no committing offers made by the Palestinians, and none of the hypotheticals mentioned in the papers have been factored into actual Palestinian policy. If the Palestinians were willing to give up some neighborhoods of East Jerusalem, it would not have made any sense for them to demand that the settlement construction freeze be extended to those areas.

My favorite part of redactor's post is "Israel has nuclear and biological weapons for defense". And not just because of the biological weapons part. Just imagine his reaction had Israel actually used those nuclear weapons for defense.

[farmboy]

"Peace" and "Palestinian state" are not the same thing. You can have a Palestinian state and no peace.

The Palestine Papers don't show any Palestinian willingness to compromise. There were no committing offers made by the Palestinians, and none of the hypotheticals mentioned in the papers have been factored into actual Palestinian policy. If the Palestinians were willing to give up some neighborhoods of East Jerusalem, it would not have made any sense for them to demand that the settlement construction freeze be extended to those areas.

My favorite part of redactor's post is "Israel has nuclear and biological weapons for defense". And not just because of the biological weapons part. Just imagine his reaction had Israel actually used those nuclear weapons for defense.

Hahaha yeah Israel's going to drop a nuke 20 miles away lolololol. oh! and grad missiles are now classified as small arms. I just spat coffee all over my keyboard laughin so hard. This guy is smokin some real good stuff. He's pretty good at twisting words and phrases tho, worse than my ex.

[Mediocrates]

Point being the PLO and Hamas have never actually agreed to anything, ever. Even to the ideas they themselves have floated. There's no point in pretending to negotiate with pathological liars. So their 'plan' could literally be anything. Doesn't matter. Given that they should declare their state and let the chips fall where they may. For one, it would obviate any so called right of return. Second it would prompt Israel to stop bolstering them by providing free or deeply discounted infrastructure services like water, sewer, lights and such. Third, it would immediately show the Arab states for what they are when they expel every Palestinian living amongst them to be repatriated to their 'homeland'.

Since 60% of their GDP comes from donations, let them function that way. An independent Palestinian state would drive the Palestinian leadership to portray their state in as bad a light as possible prompting all their donor supporters to provide even more money. Which is fine. If 90% of the Palestinian economy was international donations. so what? Pay them 10 or 20 billion dollars a year. The only way to fight corruption is to ensure there's enough baksheesh to go around to bribe everyone. Every household. Like the social welfare state of Saudi Arabia.

In the interim Israel will most likely get to hold on to about 10% of Yesha and most of Jerusalem. This of course will be unacceptable to the Palestinians who've already declared ethnic cleansing of all Jews. So there will be violence against Jews rising to the level of pogroms. Hundreds if not thousands of Jews will be killed unless they flee the peaceful peaceloving Palestinians of peace who will then burn down all the evacuated Jewish buildings as they did in Gaza. When the dust settles there will be a Jew Free Palestinian Paradise in the former Yesha just like Gaza, the PLO government will stagger and limp until Hamas takes control and turns it from a corrupt criminal enterprise to a fascist theocratic terrorist state. They will persist in attacking Israel, making life for the Palestinians even more miserable. But from the position of an independent Palestinian state they will have less jihadi-liberal clout with western liberals.