who here believes in god?

[farmboy]

Xian rhetoric makes me smile cos it reminds me of the dog I once had and loved. I would walk him through the fields and if I saw a rabbit I would call him and point frantically trying in vain to show him where the rabbit was. He couldn't understand that I was trying to indicate what I wanted him to do. He would look at my finger and hand then start jumping up and down as if they concealed a treat causing that much fuss that the rabbit would be long gone by the time he settled.
This has become similar to how I now regard Xianity. Jesus was a Rabbi and he was trying to show the way as he saw it, not become the centre figure of a cult. He was Jewish and wanted people to obey the laws of God, rather like many religeous Jews have the same wishes today. I think he would be turning in his grave for the fact that he inadvertently started a pollytheistic religeon.
Stop looking at the finger, look where I'm pointing. Stupid dog!

[SuperiorEd]

Jesus was a Rabbi and he was trying to show the way as he saw it, not become the centre figure of a cult. He was Jewish and wanted people to obey the laws of God, rather like many religeous Jews have the same wishes today. I think he would be turning in his grave for the fact that he inadvertently started a pollytheistic religeon.

Assuming the Trinity has anything to do with polytheistic belief, you would be incorrect. Assuming denies what I actually said in the last post. The Trinity is no less a correct view than understanding that God has many names in the Old Testament. Depending on which aspect of His character is being displayed, God is named by several pre-existent character traits. Just to name a few:

ELOHIM......Genesis 1:1, Psalm 19:1
meaning "God", a reference to God's power and might.
ADONAI......Malachi 1:6
meaning "Lord", a reference to the Lordship of God.
JEHOVAH--YAHWEH.....Genesis 2:4
a reference to God's divine salvation.
JEHOVAH-MACCADDESHEM.......Exodus 31:13
meaning "The Lord thy sanctifier"
JEHOVAH-ROHI......Psalm 23:1
meaning "The Lord my shepherd"
JEHOVAH-SHAMMAH.......Ezekiel 48:35
meaning "The Lord who is present"
JEHOVAH-RAPHA.........Exodus 15:26
meaning "The Lord our healer"
JEHOVAH-TSIDKENU......Jeremiah 23:6
meaning "The Lord our righteousness"
JEHOVAH-JIREH.........Genesis 22:13-14
meaning "The Lord will provide"
JEHOVAH-NISSI.........Exodus 17:15

To assign the final name to God as Son does not denote that the one God is two. This would be absurd. God is not limited. God is unlimited and limitless. Denying that God is capable of appearing to us as a man denies that Jacob wrestled with God. It denies that the prophets were directly embodied by the spirit of God. Jesus was our living Word. He IS the fulfillment of the law. He did not come to abolish the law. No. He came to establish the law by example.

In Genesis 3, we find that pride was the element that represents the fall of man away from God. Pride elevates one person in status above another. God offered mankind a choice for gaining the fruit of knowledge. Either we choose to allow God to give the fruit equally, or we choose to take the fruit unequally by pride. God is not about inequality. Taking always causes suffering. Giving always causes reward. If you smoke, you get cancer. This is taking reward. If you suffer the work of a college education, you get a degree and a job. This represents an example of suffering (giving) of work for true reward. How does this apply to Genesis 3?

When God stated that we would toil on the earth as a result of our choice, He indicated that we would work for the fruit instead of receiving it as a gift. The law was given to man as a means to an end. The end is love. What is love? Love is giving to others and not taking. Once we learn this lesson, the tree of life is opened to mankind. Why?

The flaming sword was placed around the tree of life. The flaming sword is God's consuming fire. The purpose of the consuming fire is to cut away pride. God never stopped walking in the Garden. Even when we were hiding behind a fig leaf of sin, God was there walking us in the garden. We can run, but God is always there walking us back and giving the fruit of knowledge. Israel is the light unto the nations and the source of all knowledge given on earth. This is obvious by examining who is most responsible for discoveries throughout history. The fruit is given, despite our pride that says we are responsible. Why does this relate to our current conversation about Jesus?

The law cannot be broken if we love others. The law is void. Fulfillment of the law is found in love as defined in 1 Corinthians 13. Jesus came for one reason: He does what we were/are unable to do. On our best day, our righteousness is as filthy rags (Is. 64:6). God came as a demonstration of the law in action. He took our worldview and twisted it to the correct perspective. Love your enemies. Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who persecute you. Turn the other cheek. Faith and love for God has always been the means to salvation. Loving others is the way we love God. It's the same way He loves us. Bestowal is the key. Law can only answer the way. God answers the how.

Why is Israel faced with this very dilemma at this juncture of history? God is forcing a choice. Take from others or give. Light the fire you burn by or choose to be the light leading to God. Land is a material possession. Souls are what matters in the end to God. Do we lead them to God or do we become what we most despise in the world? Israel is the light unto the nations. Time to realize that the switch that ignites the flame is Christ.

A dog worth anything can only love. Just saying. A dog that cannot love its master is worthless.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[ehadahaba]

Xian rhetoric makes me smile cos it reminds me of the dog I once had and loved. I would walk him through the fields and if I saw a rabbit I would call him and point frantically trying in vain to show him where the rabbit was. He couldn't understand that I was trying to indicate what I wanted him to do. He would look at my finger and hand then start jumping up and down as if they concealed a treat causing that much fuss that the rabbit would be long gone by the time he settled.
This has become similar to how I now regard Xianity. Jesus was a Rabbi and he was trying to show the way as he saw it, not become the centre figure of a cult. He was Jewish and wanted people to obey the laws of God, rather like many religeous Jews have the same wishes today. I think he would be turning in his grave for the fact that he inadvertently started a pollytheistic religeon.
Stop looking at the finger, look where I'm pointing. Stupid dog!

he who is without sin throw the first Bone.

[farmboy]

he who is without sin throw the first Bone.

Quotes from books that were writen hundreds of years after Jesus and have been controled and doctored by Rome have no validity in any discussion. We may as well use LOTR as our text.

[SuperiorEd]

Quotes from books that were writen hundreds of years after Jesus and have been controled and doctored by Rome have no validity in any discussion. We may as well use LOTR as our text.

I am interested. Which text was given in the last age? Israel is never without a prophet (not widowed). Each age has demonstrated a Word to guide Israel through the coming age. When Jesus was here, there were no texts that I am aware of which fit apart from the NT. Am I in error? The age before witnessed the majority of biblical revelation. After Jesus, which books are revealed? Kaballah? What about Rabbi Kaduri revealing that Yeshua is the savior?

If a day to God is 1000 years, does it not make sense that we are approaching a day of rest? How can a Hebrew miss this from its own history? God always rests on the seventh day. Jesus announced a 1000 years of peace followed by the culmination of the final judgment from God. How can these things be ignored?

Adam to the death of Noah is 2000
Noah to Jesus 2000
Jesus to today 2000 (Next Tetrad Moon cycle - 2015)

How can we explain Matthew 24 and the accuracy of Jesus prediction that the fig tree would bloom (1948), accompanied by the signs of the times? When was Daniel's 70th week? We know about the 69 weeks and can verify them from history. 70 is missing.

I am not saying there are no other ways of explaining these. I am curious how the Jewish perspective views this. For me, the Christian perspective is clearly outlined to us 2000 years prior to today. This seems unmistakable as the work of God.

One more question. The last 22 books of the New Testament are letters with no exceptions. Does it seem a tad odd that letters end the Bible and there are also 22 letters in the Hebrew Alphabet? The entire Bible is in a Heptadic structure. Even the NT reveals the mark of God in its structure. How can this be ignored?

[ehadahaba]

I think you meant Adam to Abraham is 2000 and Abraham to Jesus is a little over 2000.
Adam to Noah is 1656 (or 1666 (1656 + 10x1), and Adam to Moses is 2666, both = 666).

[SuperiorEd]

I think you meant Adam to Abraham is 2000 and Abraham to Jesus is a little over 2000.
Adam to Noah is 1656 (or 1666 (1656 + 10x1), and Adam to Moses is 2666, both = 666).

You may be entirely correct. This would make more sense. The Epistle of Barnabas clears the air on why this is important.

Barnabas 15:3
Of the Sabbath He speaketh in the beginning of the creation; And
God made the works of His hands in six days, and He ended on the
seventh day, and rested on it, and He hallowed it.

Barnabas 15:4
Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He
meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all
things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years;
and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of
the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six
days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end.

I asked a good question. Where is the Word from God to Israel in the last age if Jesus was not the one revealing the message? All we know today answers this question. Jesus is confirmed on many levels. Matthew 24 should be the sure indication that we are at the last days spoken of by so many prophets.

[Mjazz]

I think he would be turning in his grave for the fact that he inadvertently started a pollytheistic religeon.
Stop looking at the finger, look where I'm pointing. Stupid dog!

A friend of mine had Chesapeake Bay Retriever that would look at your finger to see where you were pointing and then look to where you were pointing to get the ball he lost track of.
We have four different Gospels, that point in the direction of Jesus Christ. He wouldn't be turning in His grave because He left it. You're leaving out the fact that Jewish scripture was pointing to a Messiah: And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Not just another religious teacher.

[Mjazz]

Quotes from books that were writen hundreds of years after Jesus and have been controled and doctored by Rome have no validity in any discussion. We may as well use LOTR as our text.

Rome didn't have a monopoly on all the texts available and couldn't have doctored them all; there must have been discoveries made since then.

[farmboy]

Had the shirt, heard the speil.
Kid yourself that it's for real
One true God's enough for me.
Not one false carved into three

And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

and that's in the torah right?
Oops no, that was that cross eyed guy. One eyeshigher than the other.

[farmboy]

Rome didn't have a monopoly on all the texts available and couldn't have doctored them all; there must have been discoveries made since then.

If in doubt refer to rule 1.
Something about one God and having no other God isn't it?