who here believes in god?

[Achihud]

Oh yea, and I also believe in what bararallu said. We are only significant to ourselves but in the vastness of the universe, how significant are we really?

That's the Meaning of Life according to Monty Python and then Death visits a dining table and no one is ready to accept they have died already or have been convinced to sell their healthy organs for the greater benefit of mankind in a previous chapter.

Personally I believe we can only understand/know God through and through when we will understand all that He has created including ourselves. To make a start, heart is written lamed-beth or 30-2. Hebrew language has 22 letters together with 10 numbers gives 32 'instruments' to define and understand everything within creation but your heart has to be with God first and eternity is promised/given to reach this level of absolute bliss and after that you are still free to rebel against Him and let loose of the truth you have gained and experience death once again.

[bararallu]

Yet is ignorance not bliss? Is a child not the happiest of beings? Does it know God?

People forget that biting the fruit of the "tree of knowledge" (in my vernacular, building Civilization) is entering a controlled fall. You will go very far, but always down . I'm personally in it for the ride, not eschatology.

[Reffo]

Aichud

First: I don't want to rebel against God, "He" would just "laugh at me" Then again, maybe not. I just feel too insignificant even for that. I shouldn't even have to say that because it should be understood even without me saying it.

Second: I doubt that any of us will understand everything within creation because if we would, then we ourselves would become God like.

Third: There is no reason for us not to strive for more understanding but we must be aware of our limitation which is that we will never understand everything, no matter how much more knowledge we gain.

I am prepared to live with all of the above.

[bararallu]

Godhood is relative though.

Four more generations at this pace of advancement, and I fear to think what the new species of men will consider the old. How about 4 digit IQ (like in that film that came out recently)? I dont think they can be counted as "men" any longer. Why do we not consider Gorillas sentient or sapient again? It's a completely arbitrary threshold. Once you get on the slope of defining and being "extra" human, then you are inversely defining the "lesser godhood" as well.

[Reffo]

Four more generations at this pace of advancement, and I fear to think what the new species of men will consider the old. How about 4 digit IQ (like in that film that came out recently)?

Oh well, I don't think I'll worry about that. I guess I won't be around by then and hopefully my descendants will keep up with the rise in IQ. Otherwise they will be in trouble I guess.

In the meanwhile, how are we going to help solve this mess in the Middle East? That's hard enough to solve ...

[Achihud]

Yet is ignorance not bliss? Is a child not the happiest of beings? Does it know God?

I'm sure they know by instinct. If the mother ain't there some other woman will take care of them so they can affort to play ignorant. Happiness on the other hand dies with starvation. I remember one fragment in the box and how I used mumbling/out-cry to get my parents' attention although I wasn't sad nor worried nor in pain.

People forget that biting the fruit of the "tree of knowledge" (in my vernacular, building Civilization) is entering a controlled fall. You will go very far, but always down . I'm personally in it for the ride, not eschatology.

Building the tower of Babel ain't the same as eating the forbidden fruit. What I'm saying is, you can eat from that fruit and NOT die because it can also happen with God's approval. It means you ate it with the right attitude or that your heart was with God or at least enough with God to escape the biblical punishment. Some part of the revelation coming your way will involve the "all is full of love" message. I hope you will have enough resistance to not leave your house fully naked in the freezing cold with the only key of your house on the wrong side of the door, strong going on a mission to convert everyone on your way.

If you can stay home you have passed the test, more to come...

[Achihud]

First: I don't want to rebel against God, "He" would just "laugh at me" Then again, maybe not. I just feel too insignificant even for that. I shouldn't even have to say that because it should be understood even without me saying it.

Everyone has hidden degrees of potential rebellion already present. Let me explain, every new thought that you think that isn't dismissed or rejected as untrue will be a building brick in an already existing thought pattern which is held together by multiple other thought patterns leading to a thought cluster = your conviction. Everything within your conviction that does not correspond with absolute truth is a potential stumbling block between you and God. So every bad brick can harm your relationship. Many bad bricks create loop holes in which you get stuck time and again. Why this, why that, why me, why all the things that I've come to cherish. God is to blame, and in the end God can not exist. When the right answer is proposed anger will erupt, that's the hidden rebellion.
While there's only one Job in uniqueness, we're all has-beens at some point in time when we blamed God and couldn't find the answer.

Second: I doubt that any of us will understand everything within creation because if we would, then we ourselves would become God like.

In becoming God-like lies the highest reward, the highest level of personal happiness. Not only God is "I am who I am". The angel who answered through the burning bush is "I AM" TOO. That's why an answer coming from a messenger from God is the same as an answer coming from God and why Aaron referred to Moses in a similar fashion. We all need to be like Him and here it comes...after his image and LIKEness, again.

Third: There is no reason for us not to strive for more understanding but we must be aware of our limitation which is that we will never understand everything, no matter how much more knowledge we gain.

Yes modesty is what keeps one safe even after having reached the highest level of God-knowing. We only experience reality with a limited percentage of our active brain. God can raise that percentage through the channel of inspiration accomplished by praying or the so-called forbidden fruit. With the latter we will witness the same reality from a bigger perspective but even then we need to learn to take one step before the other. If our feet don't have solid ground (conviction corresponding final truth) we risk falling down as soon as we try to lift one foot from it. If we go with a seven mile boots-perspective we risk falling down with an equal risk for mental self-destruction.

[bararallu]

I'm sure they know by instinct. If the mother ain't there some other woman will take care of them so they can affort to play ignorant.

Wait! Are you saying the babies are devious?

Happiness on the other hand dies with starvation.

Which is my general disagreement with the Bethlehemites (pun intended)- man does, in fact, live by bread alone. Unless they are east Asian, whereby they live by rice alone.

I remember one fragment in the box and how I used mumbling/out-cry to get my parents' attention although I wasn't sad nor worried nor in pain.

Rings very true.. and apropos, as humans go generally.

Building the tower of Babel ain't the same as eating the forbidden fruit.

Allegorically, I'd say it's the very same thing, why would it warrant swift destruction otherwise? At least for the Babylonian deities the hoi palloi were just too damn loud, and had to die. The God of Israel blew over that tower on rather spurious grounds, as is pshat in the Torah. If you say pride, are we not proud to be fathers, sons and husbands?

What I'm saying is, you can eat from that fruit and NOT die because it can also happen with God's approval. It means you ate it with the right attitude or that your heart was with God or at least enough with God to escape the biblical punishment.

Dunno. Sounds a little like Mr. Calvin. Not that there is anything wrong with it- except the possible tautology, assuming free will is still in effect.

Some part of the revelation coming your way will involve the "all is full of love" message. I hope you will have enough resistance to not leave your house fully naked in the freezing cold with the only key of your house on the wrong side of the door, strong going on a mission to convert everyone on your way.

That's a scary thought Achihud. My experience on this world has been exactly the opposite- Namely, eat bad burrito; run from the outside deep inside the house, yelling at everyone to beware and not eat any burritos from place X, and to get the bloody hell out of the water closet. Did you know that the human stomach possess a far more ancient brain then our skulls?

If you can stay home you have passed the test, more to come...

I love the Internets, they keep me nice and in place.

[bararallu]

Oh well, I don't think I'll worry about that. I guess I won't be around by then and hopefully my descendants will keep up with the rise in IQ. Otherwise they will be in trouble I guess.

If you live to Mosses age, and I hope all Zionists do, you will see it with your own eyes.

In the meanwhile, how are we going to help solve this mess in the Middle East?

There is a place called Arabia, and the Germans have a saying: everything in it's place and a place for everything.

[Sanket]

In becoming God-like lies the highest reward, the highest level of personal happiness.

Hashish

[farmboy]

Godhood is relative though.

Four more generations at this pace of advancement, and I fear to think what the new species of men will consider the old. How about 4 digit IQ (like in that film that came out recently)? I dont think they can be counted as "men" any longer. Why do we not consider Gorillas sentient or sapient again? It's a completely arbitrary threshold. Once you get on the slope of defining and being "extra" human, then you are inversely defining the "lesser godhood" as well.

The concept of genetic engineering, clone vats, test tube babies etc. I wouldn't be suprised if some government wasn't covertly growing some superbrain.
I wondered about this some years ago, how a human could be created with intelligence enough to solve all the worlds problems. The risk would be him posessing a mans ego and frailties that could turn this creation into an intellectual monster.

[bararallu]

The concept of genetic engineering, clone vats, test tube babies etc. I wouldn't be suprised if some government wasn't covertly growing some superbrain.

I think if it were in the realm of technology then I'd agree, we're still in the realm of science- the IQ genes are still barely understood, and not nearly well identified. All of them are in peer reviewed journals. Govt labs, like Chinese, would use the core research to build their engineering. Maybe in 10 years time we'll see experiments. In 5 with mice, not to date IMO. And I mean serious activity not shots in the dark, which a lot of labs are working on- esp. w/ Alzheimers being such a lucrative target. At least 50% of the puzzle is memory/recall.

I wondered about this some years ago, how a human could be created with intelligence enough to solve all the worlds problems.

Very incrementally I'd argue and then punctuated with interspecies encounters.

You see a nice progression in hominid tools for instance. e.g., hand axe's were made to solve particular problems. Throwing spears another- and in some cases it was a limitation of physiology that precluded certain tools, like opposable thumbs, and rotator in shoulders (lack there of in Homo Erectus) that delimited the use of certain tools.

I also think that hybrid fitness has something to do with intelligence. Remember after the Toba eruption, humans numbered well under 10k persons. Thats a real population pinch, meaning inbreeding. Mixture with Neanderthals, Denisovans (both 1-4% in non sub saharan African human population) and possibly even Erectus, we have smarter people generally, even if the original Cro Magnon Sapiens was possibly smarter than all the other Human types initially.

Neanderthals probably had incredible spacial intelligence, which helps with math- strictly due to the huge occipital lobes. When you combine that with impulse control (front cortex-limbic system evolution) and temporal lobe symbolic manipulation/calculation of sapiens sapiens, you have a real winner species. A run away success. None of this is very controversial in Biology these days BTW.

The risk would be him posessing a mans ego and frailties that could turn this creation into an intellectual monster.

Damn you Apes!!!! There is a reason the man fronted the NRA after all . We need rifles, or the cloned Neanderthals will have us for lunch.

[Cellis]

Like what was there before Big-Bang.

Gang-bang maybe? (btw Jews did the big-bang!)

Ok have it your way

Haha! So atheists would count each move and measure diameters of the position and pressure the one at top makes, right?

[Achihud]

Wait! Are you saying the babies are devious?

It's your 'bunch of keys' they're after, the plastic colourful ones don't jingle properly.
In Dutch it's 'sleutelbos'. As soon as it is noticed those eyes go big and because they can't pronounce -s- they utter in excitement "L-E-U-TEL".
But the fake ones? Not a spark.

Which is my general disagreement with the Bethlehemites (pun intended)- man does, in fact, live by bread alone. Unless they are east Asian, whereby they live by rice alone.

Again mind the pâté.

Allegorically, I'd say it's the very same thing, why would it warrant swift destruction otherwise? At least for the Babylonian deities the hoi palloi were just too damn loud, and had to die. The God of Israel blew over that tower on rather spurious grounds, as is pshat in the Torah. If you say pride, are we not proud to be fathers, sons and husbands?

I'm a proud football hooligan What's the score again? I was too busy working someone's face.

That's a scary thought Achihud.

My scariest thought is visiting a female dentist. How do they ever pull a bad tooth? Thinking about it I already feel a high-heeled shoe in my stomach.

I love the Internets, they keep me nice and in place.

Nah, I won't recruit you but maybe my döppelganger will...[-insert sarcastic green smilie-]


(btw the new emoticons suck)

[ShyCharla]

Hi guys
this question has been on my mind for awhile now, and i saw the post about the torah so i thought why not just ask this in a new post so here i goes.


Now ok to my actual question.

Who here actually belives in god 100%, because even though i would give my life to israel (which i believe IS the jewish people), im "smart" enough to know about evolution and the darwinian theory.

Now, who here actually believes god clicked his fingers and the universe was created?, and that earth is only a few thousand years old, because to believe in god one MUST believe in this right?

Why dosent the torah or bible mention why did god create dinosaurs millions of yrs before humans came along?
there is 100% scientific evidence of dinosaur bones, so why did god create them, and dosent this prove the world isnt a few thousand yrs old? but billions of yrs old.

Isnt it hypocritical to say yes im a good jew i believe in god, but i also believe in evolution and that earth is billions of yrs old and not a few thousand like religious leaders and religious books want us to believe.


Is anyone here an actual rabbi? or very religious?, if yes than to be a rabbi one must believe that god made man in his image right just like that with a click of his fingers right?
not that we evolved from homo erectus etc...
so rabbis also believe that earth is a few thousand yrs old as well right?
even though there are rocks that are billions of yrs old, and dinosaur bones that are hundreds of millions of yrs old.
but to be a man of god you must not believe in this right?

not trying to cause trouble here as i do love israel and the jewish people and we should all look after our own people first because thats the most important, even if there is no god.

any comments good or bad appreciated, thanks.

I believe in God. I grew up a Christian believer. However with that being said I do not understand the technical things of science, nor do I believe that the bible is the exact word of God-himself-but of men whos own ideas, thoughts, and attitudes influenced them just as much as God influenced them to write the bible. I think God can do anything! He can even make natural things look like He wants them to look. Who really knows what God did before the bible/torah says he created the world. Did He really have to give an exact account of Himself to us? Maybe He just told us what we needed to know. Does anyone really know how long Gods days are?