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Thread: muslim zionists

  1. #1
    victot
    Guest

    muslim zionists

    hey yall, i just read the supposed words of ossama bin laden, with his hatred of the west and america for giving the land of israel to the jewish people. i thought i would start a whole new thread, and you know, increase the victot glory, heh.

    this guy who wrote this goes to my university, not exactly a friend, but an aquaintance. he is a member of hillel, and he is a muslim of indian descent.

    he is 1 of the most pro-israel people i know. i gave his email to this woman i know who has her own weekly e-letter, about various issues relating to the middle east. here is the interview they had with eachother:

    Dear Alireza,
    "Victot" (instead of my real name) forwarded your address to me. I am the Director of the Mid East Education Team which seeks to present the facts about the Israel and her place in the Middle East with supportive integrity.
    I would like very much to interview you for our weekly eletter.
    I could do it by phone, but would prefer email since I have no tape
    recording mechanism in the phone and may lose some of your answers.
    Here is the core of what I would like to know!

    1.Your name and a bit about who you are and where you are from
    2. Why you show support for Israel even though you are a Muslim
    3. Are you familiar with Sheik Palazzi?
    4. Your message to the Jews
    5. Your message to the Muslim and Arab world.
    If you have time to grant me the interview I would be most grateful.
    Thank you,
    CR Schiloni

    Dear Director,

    Thank you very much for taking an interest in interviewing me for your newsletter. I am quite flattered. I apologize for taking a while to reply to your message, but I was studying for my midterms. I am more than willing to have an interview with you. If an online interview is what would be more preferable, then it could be arranged. However, I should to tell you that I wouldn’t be very much available in the next couple of weeks since I will have my face glued into my books gearing up for final exams.


    I would also like to thank you for sending me a list of topics that you would like to discuss with me. Let me just give you some of my views and responses to the topics that you’ve sent me.


    I am a first year student at Concordia University studying Electrical Engineering (I actually just started last September this year). I was born in Montreal (Jewish General Hospital to be exact). My parents are from India. They are divorced and I live with my dad.

    I show support for Israel for two main reasons. The first reason is that I believe that the Jewish people have a right to a state of their own with Jerusalem at its capital by the teachings of Koran and by Islamic law. The second reason is that if you look at the history of this region, the Jews are the true victims and, even today, are willing to have peace with the Arab aggressors on every side of their borders. Let me just emphasize on those two.


    I have read the Koran, and it clearly states that God had told Prophet Moses (P.B.U.H.) to lead the Hebrews out of Egypt and bring them to the Promised Land. It clearly states that God sent Prophet David (P.B.U.H.) to create the Kingdom Of Israel, the Homeland for the Jews. The Koran also states that the followers of the Prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H.) used to pray towards Syria (a term that was used for Jerusalem). Prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H.) then changed the direction of prayer, while in significantly Jewish populated city called Medina, towards Mecca. The Holiest site in Islam is Mecca, that is the direction where all Muslims pray. The Holiest site in Judaism is Jerusalem, that is the direction where all Jews pray.

    The second reason is that Israel has every right to exist if you look at history carefully. The Jews always kept Jerusalem as their holiest site even though many of them were exiled by the Roman Empire and renamed the Holy Land Palaestina, which is where the name Palestine is derived from. Even then, a significant Jewish population has stayed in the Holy Land all through 3 millenniums. The Jews maintained a significant population and presence in the Palestine throughout the four centuries of the Ottoman Empire, a Muslim Empire (where, from my point of view, they were treated with more respect than any other empire that ruled Palestine). The first Zionist settlement in Israel was in the very early 1900’s, during Muslim rule by the Ottoman Empire of Palestine. The Ottoman’s, who were basically Turks not Arabs, allowed them to settle in Palestine since the place they were settling in was mostly desert. The Ottoman’s were later on surprised to see how these Jewish immigrants could take a dessert’s land and make it fertile.


    Even after the Ottoman Empire fell, quite a few Arab leaders supported the Zionist movement. One them was King Feisal Hussein of Iraq and Syria 1919. Unfortunately later on due to his expulsion from Syria by the French and the influence of other Arab leaders, his attitude later became hostile. It was mostly Syria who hustled other Arab leaders into being hostile against the Zionist movement since to the Syrians, Palestine belongs to them.


    Out of British Mandate Palestine, an entire region was closed to Jewish Settlement which is now called the Arab Kingdom of Jordan. Even then the U.N. decided that the Arabs needed more land and gave them a very generous portion of Palestine. The new Jewish State mostly got unfertile desert land while the Arabs got the prosperous lands. The Arabs refused and five nations invaded the new Jewish State. They attacked the new Jewish state 3 times, and each time they failed.


    The majority of who have claimed to be refugees had no need to do so. Over 68% of all the Arabs who fled Palestine and became refugees never even saw a single Israeli soldier. They fled because the other Arabs told them too. The Arab nations, even today, use the Palestinian refugees as a political pawn. The Arab nations, especially Saudi Arabia (a country whose citizens are spoiled with an unbelievably large amounts of welfare and whose unemployed find themselves to prestigious to work in low class jobs which forces the country import six million people to take low class jobs), could have integrated these people into their own country. Instead, they used these people to create hatred towards Zionism and Israel. It has so far worked very well.


    I can keep on going on for pages talking about how Israel and the Jewish People are the true victims, but I think I’ll stop here for now. My main point is that I personally and truly believe that both humanely and religiously Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish State with Jerusalem as its capital.


    Oh by the way, yes, I am very familiar with Sheikh Professor Palazzi. I find it wonderful to see that a Muslim cleric would defend Israel as he has done and that there are so many more Muslims who are also doing the same. It’s great to see more and more Muslims saying no to fanaticism and fundamentalism, like these good people have been doing.


    My message to the Jews is that you are not alone. You have Muslim friends. Many Jews don’t know that Israel and Turkey have military alliance. They also have very good trade relations. Many Jews also need to know that not every Muslim is against them. Only those who do not really know Islam are your enemies and mine.


    My message to my fellow Muslims is to look to what the Koran and Islam really says about a Jewish State and the Jewish people. I urge every Muslim to read articles written by Sheikh Professor Palazzi and to fall under all this propaganda that fundamentalists are putting the Muslim population under.


    To the Arabs of the world, me message is that it’s time to end this hatred. Israel is not your enemy. They are no threat to you. Only you can end this never-ending cycle of bloodshed. The Israelis just want their own state, which occupies less than 0.2% of all the land the Arabs rule over. Zionism is not racism. Even Martin Luther King Jr. defended Zionism. End the bloodshed and end it now.


    Anyways, that was just a bit about my views and responses to those topics that you’ve sent me. I hope I have given some good details about my views about Zionism and Israel. Send me a message whenever you wish to conduct a thorough interview and how you want to conduct it. I look very forward to getting a response from you.



    Sincerely Yours



    Alireza

  2. #2
    MichaelC
    Guest

    Thank you, Alireza

    It does my heart good to hear these things from a Muslim. I thank you, Alireza, for your fine speech reprinted here on these pages. I am very glad to have seen this.

    I truly want to believe that there are more people who think like you. I've never heard words like these from a Muslim, though you tell us that there are others.

    I choose to believe you because unless I leave my heart open to the possibility that there are others, like you, who understand Israel and desire a respectful coexistence, then how can I ever live in peace with them in the end?

    Today, I heard of brave students from Iran who are bucking their own government on its foreign policy and I hope that there are many others behind the spokespeople whose words I read.

    I suppose that there is some doubt in my tone, but I assure you, I welcome your words, Peace Be Upon You.

  3. #3
    elke
    Guest
    I truly want to believe that there are more people who think like you. I've never heard words like these from a Muslim, though you tell us that there are others.
    Please see this from our own Ayesha :

    http://www.israelforum.com/board/sho...rael#post28056

  4. #4
    MichaelC
    Guest
    Originally posted by elke
    Please see this from our own Ayesha :

    http://www.israelforum.com/board/sho...rael#post28056
    Thank you for pointing this out, Elke. I will pay special attention when Ayesha speaks.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    5,219
    wow....that's all I can really say...wow...eloquently put...I wish that this was the belief of more Arabs...then the security concerns that make holding the WB to me a necessity wouldn't exist nearly as much...

  6. #6
    Moskal'
    Guest
    If all the muslims would think like that, 90% of world's problems would be solved. That shows us very clearly how education widens the horizont of a person.

    The sad thing is that arabs in Israel are not integrated very well, having own ghetto schools etc.

    Anyway, reading the lines above, I became an optimist.


    P.S. It would be interresting to ask this person about his views on Indo-Pakistan conflict...

  7. #7
    richcrassus
    Guest
    [i]

    P.S. It would be interresting to ask this person about his views on Indo-Pakistan conflict... [/B]
    It would be more interesting to ask this guy what he thinks of 'americas' war on terror.

  8. #8
    Batman
    Guest

    Re: muslim zionists

    Originally posted by victot


    Alireza
    Wow!
    It's so good to read these words.
    Thank you!!!!

  9. #9
    raven
    Guest
    WOW: I know others have said this here..but thats what I was thinking when I read what this Moslem Man had to say. Im floored. How many people are there in Islam that believe this? Geeze...and Wow again.

    Tell him HI....Tell him we appreciate. Tell him THANKS.

    Im going waay overboard, I know. Im just stunned.

    Does this attitude come from being a INDIAN Muslim? Or does it come from his sect (whatever it is) of Islam? Where? How come? Why? I wanna know.

    Wish him good luck on his exams. (that will be the best way to express friendhsip)...The Best.

  10. #10
    muslimvoice
    Guest
    hello to everyone on this forum,

    I accidentally found this site, and ever since I have been visting it regularly. I enjoy listening to other people's views, regardless of how radical they are, or how much I disagree with them.

    I would infact be naive enough to say that debating and exchanging views amongst us ordinary people, is probably a possitive step forward, considering the political problems that we are facing these days.

    I have to admit that after 9/11 I have been specially drawn to politics and especially an interest to visit forums and other sites that voice the opinions of people that you might say are not too common in this part of the world.

    The one common concern that I have been hearing on this site and others such as www.danielpipes.org, is that lets say pro-US or pro-Israel voices are saying 'where are the moderate muslims' or where are those muslims who should voice their immediate outrage at 'palestenain suicide bombings', and other such concern, that could possibly lead (and which probably has) to the genralization that basically the arab/muslim world are a bunch of facists who want to rule the world, driven by their religion and fanatics like usama bin laden, ayatollah khomeini, etc, etc, etc

    offcourse I was sort of not shocked (but a little susrpised) about the reaction to Alireza's views. Do most pro-isreal people (hardline or moderate) trully believe that there are no Muslims/arabs who look at the israeli/palestenain objectively and try to debate based on reason and fact, and give the israelis the benefit of the doubt to say the least?

    So I have decided that the least I can do to contribute to this debate, is to show you my views, and hopefully make you believe that there are many other muslims who think like Alireza, and hopefully I can make other 'moderate' muslims speak out or direct you to other sites that convey moderate muslim opinion.

    So here goes:

    1. I live in a country in the ME called United Arab Emirates
    2. I was born Muslim (but I dont give a hoot for Islam or any other religion). Please don't hold this against me. I am not some sort of 'convert' who after discovering the evils of Islam, disassociated myself with it. Believe me, there are a lot of muslims that I know, who don't seem to know the first thing about Islam, but when defending their political view, rush to Islam to justify it. My view is that I don't need a religion to tell me how to live my life, so I know less about Islam than probably some non-muslims. I chose the name 'Muslimvoice' just to attract attention on the forum.
    3. Ethnically I am Iranian.
    4. I spent my whole life in the UAE except 6 years in the US for college. I belive that these were very important years that shaped my personality, ideology, and values.
    5. I am a strict believer in democracy in its purest from.
    6. On the Israeli/palestenain problem, I have to admit that it is a very complicated issue for me. I am sure that I don't let my background monopilize my views, that is I don't feel that I have to take the pal's side on any or every issue just because I am muslim/Iranian/live in arab country, or whatever. I look at it as a political problem, not a religious one.
    7. I have nothing against jews. I have known a lot of jews

    I would love to present my views in this forum and hope that it can be of value. I thank the people who started this site, as I believe that debate is the fundemental step of promoting understanding, tolerance in the face of the worst conditions.

    Talk to everyone soon

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    5,219
    MV,

    Welcome to the board.

    I can only respond to your question by stating that for me, Alireza's comments were the first time I had heard anything of the sort.

    You have to understand that Israel has a "bunker mentality" - mainly because its being attacked on all sides.

    Europeans attack Israel with total disregard for their hypocrisy (for example France and Germany's very recent bargaining to fund Saddam Hussein, pre-Bush43, who not only attacked others for gain but used chemical weapons on Shiite muslims and Kurds in his own country, and murdered his own son-in-law.

    The conference on human rights was just an Israel hating party.

    The phrase "zionism is racism" has been ressurected.

    The "occupation" has been declared "illegal" by Kofi Annan, head of a supposedly impartial agency, when under UN Law and the Geneva convention NEITHER the Israeli control of the WB or the Jewish Settlements in it are illegal.

    Israel is boycotted by liberal acadmics, including self-hating Jews.

    In Egypt they re-run the "protocols of the Elders of Zion", Mein Kompf is a best seller in the arab world, Al-Jazeera brings up the "blood libel issue," Arafat denies that the Temple was in Jerusalem (despite clearly recorded Roman Jewish and Christian history.)

    Do you think Israel wants to be put in this situation?? On the one hand, giving up the land not only has religious internal difficulties, but MUCH MORE IMPORTANT, its is a HUGE strategic/military defense problem - it puts Israel in a horrible position of there is another war, and Israel cannot just assume one wont happen.

    OTOH, its has taken over land where the majority population isn't just non-Jewish, but has been taught that Israel doesn't have a right to exist. And, these people DO NOT want a state of their own as much as they want the LAND they are currently on to be under Muslim control.

    Its sticky, and its hard, and voices like these are rare.

  12. #12
    judicial meanz
    Guest

    Re: muslim zionists

    Originally posted by victot
    hey yall, i just read the supposed words of ossama bin laden, with his hatred of the west and america for giving the land of israel to the jewish people. i thought i would start a whole new thread, and you know, increase the victot glory, heh.

    this guy who wrote this goes to my university, not exactly a friend, but an aquaintance. he is a member of hillel, and he is a muslim of indian descent.

    he is 1 of the most pro-israel people i know. i gave his email to this woman i know who has her own weekly e-letter, about various issues relating to the middle east. here is the interview they had with eachother:

    Dear Alireza,
    "Victot" (instead of my real name) forwarded your address to me. I am the Director of the Mid East Education Team which seeks to present the facts about the Israel and her place in the Middle East with supportive integrity.
    I would like very much to interview you for our weekly eletter.
    I could do it by phone, but would prefer email since I have no tape
    recording mechanism in the phone and may lose some of your answers.
    Here is the core of what I would like to know!

    1.Your name and a bit about who you are and where you are from
    2. Why you show support for Israel even though you are a Muslim
    3. Are you familiar with Sheik Palazzi?
    4. Your message to the Jews
    5. Your message to the Muslim and Arab world.
    If you have time to grant me the interview I would be most grateful.
    Thank you,
    CR Schiloni

    Dear Director,

    Thank you very much for taking an interest in interviewing me for your newsletter. I am quite flattered. I apologize for taking a while to reply to your message, but I was studying for my midterms. I am more than willing to have an interview with you. If an online interview is what would be more preferable, then it could be arranged. However, I should to tell you that I wouldn’t be very much available in the next couple of weeks since I will have my face glued into my books gearing up for final exams.


    I would also like to thank you for sending me a list of topics that you would like to discuss with me. Let me just give you some of my views and responses to the topics that you’ve sent me.


    I am a first year student at Concordia University studying Electrical Engineering (I actually just started last September this year). I was born in Montreal (Jewish General Hospital to be exact). My parents are from India. They are divorced and I live with my dad.

    I show support for Israel for two main reasons. The first reason is that I believe that the Jewish people have a right to a state of their own with Jerusalem at its capital by the teachings of Koran and by Islamic law. The second reason is that if you look at the history of this region, the Jews are the true victims and, even today, are willing to have peace with the Arab aggressors on every side of their borders. Let me just emphasize on those two.


    I have read the Koran, and it clearly states that God had told Prophet Moses (P.B.U.H.) to lead the Hebrews out of Egypt and bring them to the Promised Land. It clearly states that God sent Prophet David (P.B.U.H.) to create the Kingdom Of Israel, the Homeland for the Jews. The Koran also states that the followers of the Prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H.) used to pray towards Syria (a term that was used for Jerusalem). Prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H.) then changed the direction of prayer, while in significantly Jewish populated city called Medina, towards Mecca. The Holiest site in Islam is Mecca, that is the direction where all Muslims pray. The Holiest site in Judaism is Jerusalem, that is the direction where all Jews pray.

    The second reason is that Israel has every right to exist if you look at history carefully. The Jews always kept Jerusalem as their holiest site even though many of them were exiled by the Roman Empire and renamed the Holy Land Palaestina, which is where the name Palestine is derived from. Even then, a significant Jewish population has stayed in the Holy Land all through 3 millenniums. The Jews maintained a significant population and presence in the Palestine throughout the four centuries of the Ottoman Empire, a Muslim Empire (where, from my point of view, they were treated with more respect than any other empire that ruled Palestine). The first Zionist settlement in Israel was in the very early 1900’s, during Muslim rule by the Ottoman Empire of Palestine. The Ottoman’s, who were basically Turks not Arabs, allowed them to settle in Palestine since the place they were settling in was mostly desert. The Ottoman’s were later on surprised to see how these Jewish immigrants could take a dessert’s land and make it fertile.


    Even after the Ottoman Empire fell, quite a few Arab leaders supported the Zionist movement. One them was King Feisal Hussein of Iraq and Syria 1919. Unfortunately later on due to his expulsion from Syria by the French and the influence of other Arab leaders, his attitude later became hostile. It was mostly Syria who hustled other Arab leaders into being hostile against the Zionist movement since to the Syrians, Palestine belongs to them.


    Out of British Mandate Palestine, an entire region was closed to Jewish Settlement which is now called the Arab Kingdom of Jordan. Even then the U.N. decided that the Arabs needed more land and gave them a very generous portion of Palestine. The new Jewish State mostly got unfertile desert land while the Arabs got the prosperous lands. The Arabs refused and five nations invaded the new Jewish State. They attacked the new Jewish state 3 times, and each time they failed.


    The majority of who have claimed to be refugees had no need to do so. Over 68% of all the Arabs who fled Palestine and became refugees never even saw a single Israeli soldier. They fled because the other Arabs told them too. The Arab nations, even today, use the Palestinian refugees as a political pawn. The Arab nations, especially Saudi Arabia (a country whose citizens are spoiled with an unbelievably large amounts of welfare and whose unemployed find themselves to prestigious to work in low class jobs which forces the country import six million people to take low class jobs), could have integrated these people into their own country. Instead, they used these people to create hatred towards Zionism and Israel. It has so far worked very well.


    I can keep on going on for pages talking about how Israel and the Jewish People are the true victims, but I think I’ll stop here for now. My main point is that I personally and truly believe that both humanely and religiously Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish State with Jerusalem as its capital.


    Oh by the way, yes, I am very familiar with Sheikh Professor Palazzi. I find it wonderful to see that a Muslim cleric would defend Israel as he has done and that there are so many more Muslims who are also doing the same. It’s great to see more and more Muslims saying no to fanaticism and fundamentalism, like these good people have been doing.


    My message to the Jews is that you are not alone. You have Muslim friends. Many Jews don’t know that Israel and Turkey have military alliance. They also have very good trade relations. Many Jews also need to know that not every Muslim is against them. Only those who do not really know Islam are your enemies and mine.


    My message to my fellow Muslims is to look to what the Koran and Islam really says about a Jewish State and the Jewish people. I urge every Muslim to read articles written by Sheikh Professor Palazzi and to fall under all this propaganda that fundamentalists are putting the Muslim population under.


    To the Arabs of the world, me message is that it’s time to end this hatred. Israel is not your enemy. They are no threat to you. Only you can end this never-ending cycle of bloodshed. The Israelis just want their own state, which occupies less than 0.2% of all the land the Arabs rule over. Zionism is not racism. Even Martin Luther King Jr. defended Zionism. End the bloodshed and end it now.


    Anyways, that was just a bit about my views and responses to those topics that you’ve sent me. I hope I have given some good details about my views about Zionism and Israel. Send me a message whenever you wish to conduct a thorough interview and how you want to conduct it. I look very forward to getting a response from you.



    Sincerely Yours



    Alireza

    Bless his heart! I could like this guy.

  13. #13
    muslimvoice
    Guest
    Thanks for your response MGB8


    you want another surprise...read this article

    http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2003/...raq/index.html


    peace

  14. #14
    Am Yisrael
    Guest
    This is a brilliant thread! People on this board should start thinking before they condemn Muslims or Arabs as a whole. Its not right. There are still people who favour Israel that are Muslim descent and some even support her. I give my full gratitude and thanks to those from Islamic descent who rise with their voices of support for Israel.

  15. #15
    elke
    Guest
    Welcome to the IsraelForum, MuslimVoice!

    To be perfectly honest, I am more surprised that there aren't more Muslims like this than that there are some - especially since most of my personal experiences with Muslims have been very good.

    MuslimVoice, what is in your opinion, the reason that there are relatively few Muslims who believe that much of this conflict can be resolved to the relative satisfaction of the majority of people on both sides?

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