This is so ridiculous. I don't even know where to begin with this guy. And why bother, he isn't here to learn anything. Wasted energy on him, nothing more.
Home | This is so ridiculous. I don't even know where to begin with this guy. And why bother, he isn't here to learn anything. Wasted energy on him, nothing more.
Originally posted by Batman
BLAH...BLAH...BLAH...PALESTPROPAGANDABLAH.....
You are definitely avoiding the question I put to you in my previous posts as to why did you serve in the US army...FOR THAT REASON PLUS OTHERS I am having my doubts about the authenticity of the 'credentials' you presented.
IT SEEMS THAT EVERY TIME SOMEONE HAS TO LIE LIE LIE, ON THIS FORUM, THEY HAVE TO PRESENT THEIR ENTIRE SPIC & SPAN BACKGROUND. BUT THOSE WHO CONTRIBUTE THE MOST TO THIS FORUM (NOT YOU) DO NOT DISCLOSE ANY BACKGROUND HISTORY....HOW INTERESTING....
You know, these strategies by telling some story about your background to legitimize your attack on Jews and Israel is geting really transparent.
Why don't you come up with something original.
Like, for example, tell us all that you are really a character out of Disney, soft and cuddly and unthreatning, or even more creative, a WOLF in sheep's clothing, or perhaps instead of having served in the US army you actually likeanother phony balony on this forum, have served in the IDF, then we should all feel very badly about defending Israel and the Jews...........................NOT!!!
_____________________________________________
NEVER AGAIN
Batman,
this post was a waste of time on your part. All it shows is a personal attack...because you can't do any better on the issues?
You only slur yourself with such attacks.
Communication,Originally posted by Communication
This is so ridiculous. I don't even know where to begin with this guy. And why bother, he isn't here to learn anything. Wasted energy on him, nothing more.
looks like you're making progress. I'm not here to be a student of hate based on lies. The majority of the that is flung around here is nothing but intentional spin, if not outright corruption of anything that nears the truth. Defend Israel at any cost, using any method, to "defend Israel". What a disservice to Israel. Any normal readers watching how these folks "defend Israel" would pull the US support of Israel, thinking the anger and hate here actually represented real Israelis. It may represent some, but very few, mainly the extremists.
The opening posts of this string were copies of what I had posted in a real Israeli forum, where people are willing to address the issues instead of trying to slander anyone who doesn't swallow some kind of crazed party line that is just a rehash of old, transparent propaganda that no one believes anymore, except these so called "defenders of Israel" who very clearly don't know squat about Israel.
Where I see truth on this forum, I will accept it, but it is based on verification from many other sources, not just some flapping tongues with no brain connected that are doing more harm than good to Israel.
Someone on this string has already decided to call me an anti-semite, in a effort to intimidate me from further relating and discussing the truth. I wonder if that poster realizes how impotent the claim of anti-semitism becomes when it is misused in such obvious and useless attempts to slander and intimidate someone who is anything but anti-semitic...and it will become more and more obvious with my continues posts.
If you can handle the truth and discuss realistic solutions that are more than just "transfer" or "ethnic cleansing", then read on over the next few months. If you can't handle the truth or do anymore than sling slander, don't bother to respond...because I will not be intimidated and will be back in your face.
and a good morning to you and yours!
Alrighty, Batman, let's give it a go with your "questions".
"NEVER AGAIN" is an important message. But what does it mean? And what does it not mean?
Does it mean that this people should have a homeland that they can call their own? Makes sense in my book and it's a shame that Israel is so small, about the size of New Jersey. It makes it very difficult to defend, especially in a region of Arab countries more and more capable every year of fielding modern weapons...or eventually weapons of mass destruction from a national platform, or through the back door of support for terrorist organizations. Seems it is getting more and more difficult every year to defend a concept strictly through military might alone. Eventually, any realistic person will realize that "Might is Right" will become too outdated to serve any purpose.
Does it mean that Israel should have a well trained and well equipped military with the best America has to offer when Israel has been threatened by its neighbors? Sure it does! And America has unwaveringly stood by Israel with more aid than any other country on the face of the Earth has received as Americans reached deeply into pockets to ensure Israel's existence and declare "We will not allow Israel to be crushed!"
Does it mean that Israel should train special units to fight terrorism and be joined by every other freedom loving country in those efforts to eradicate any extremists who would use terrorism for their purposes? Sure it does! Look around and you'll also see that this is clearly the intent.
Does it mean that every method should be used to make sure it doesn't happen again, no matter how foul and inhumane the method? No! The counter argument is "NOT IN MY NAME", a concept that must be thought about by every Israeli, every Jew in the Diaspora...and every American who supports Israel with countless billions of hard earned tax dollars over the last five decades.
Does it mean that the Arabs left in refugee status within Israel's borders, without the benefit of citizenship or basic human rights, should be be "transfered", "ethnically cleansed" or subjected to curfews of several months of being restricted to their homes, malnutrition, lack of medicines or medical care...and death if they should happen to get in the way? No! Not in my name.
Does it mean that any supporter of Israel should twist the truth, attempt to cover up misdeeds, lie or spin propaganda in their support of Israel? No! Leave such methods to the opponents, if they should decide to continue to use such methods, as these methods always backfire on those who use them, especially in a world where lightspeed communications will expose the truth, anyway. Such methods always do immeasurable harm that counters any meager gains realized.
Originally posted by Erich
Does it mean that the Arabs left in refugee status within Israel's borders, without the benefit of citizenship or basic human rights, should be be "transfered", "ethnically cleansed" or subjected to curfews of several months of being restricted to their homes, malnutrition, lack of medicines or medical care...and death if they should happen to get in the way? No! Not in my name.
The Arabs in Israel are Israeli Arabs Citizens and they can and do hold position in government.
I’d respond to your post but really it’s so full of misinformation that I dismiss the entire post as so much nonsense. Quite frankly I pity someone of your age that doesn’t seem to have the slightest clue what’s transpiring in the world.
Of course you might be a troll!
L@mplishterM,Originally posted by L@mplighterM
The Arabs in Israel are Israeli Arabs Citizens and they can and do hold position in government.
I’d respond to your post but really it’s so full of misinformation that I dismiss the entire post as so much nonsense. Quite frankly I pity someone of your age that doesn’t seem to have the slightest clue what’s transpiring in the world.
Of course you might be a troll!
There are Arab Israelis, with complete citizenship, there are also the Palestinian Arabs who I refer to in my last post, numbering about 3.5 million, also within the borders of Israel, who have been under Israeli "stewardship" for decades, without citizenship or equal rights under the law. Do you want to deny they exist?
As far as your "troll" remarks, they only reflect back on you and very poorly at that. Why don't you try to clean it up?
No one denies that "Palestinian" Arabs exist. What we point out is that while they work 24/7 to destroy Israel the fact is that there never was a Palestinian state and there is no "Palestinian" nation.Originally posted by Erich
L@mplishterM,
There are Arab Israelis, with complete citizenship, there are also the Palestinian Arabs who I refer to in my last post, numbering about 3.5 million, also within the borders of Israel, who have been under Israeli "stewardship" for decades, without citizenship or equal rights under the law. Do you want to deny they exist?
As far as your "troll" remarks, they only reflect back on you and very poorly at that. Why don't you try to clean it up?
In other words, there are Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians," and they have rights just like all other humans. But these people do not constitute a separate nation. They do not have their own language, religion, history, or culture.
Prior to 1967, no one ever demanded a "Palestinian state." In fact, prior to 1948 no Arabs identified themselves as "Palestinians" -- they were simply Arabs.
That's not surprising, because the Arabs came originally from Arabia. In modern times, the Arabs in western Palestine came from Egypt (Arafat was born there), Syria, Iraq, eastern Palestine (Jordan), and other Arab countries.
By the way, it's interesting that you are "disappointed in Israel" for not surrendering to terrorism, but are not moved to write lengthy sermons against terrorists who mass murder civilians and their many supporters in Palestinian society.
It's amusing that you complain about "ethnic cleansing" when one of the top Palestinian demands is that the West Bank be Jew-free. Never do Palestinians say that Jews could live as a minority with equal rights in a Palestinian state, but they do say that all Jews living in the WB -- women, children, and elderly -- are fair game for Palestinian mass murderers.posted by Erich:
Does it mean that the Arabs left in refugee status within Israel's borders, without the benefit of citizenship or basic human rights, should be be "transfered", "ethnically cleansed" or subjected to curfews of several months of being restricted to their homes, malnutrition, lack of medicines or medical care...and death if they should happen to get in the way? No! Not in my name.
And where do you get off saying "Not in my name!"? It's hypocritical enough to complain about the rights of Palestinians without a word about the rights of Israeli children killed on purpose. Apparently, you consider the Palestinian right to not be restricted to their homes (their own fault for collectively supporting terrorism) as trumping the right of Jews to live.
Ibrodsky,
you are either not reading my posts...or not comprehending them. Go try again.
Denying Arabs existed in the area now called Israel is about as truthful as claiming many of the other half lies I see in great number here. There are plenty of property records, presented in Israeli courts, dating back much longer than you would like to admit. Others, like Arafat were imported, and would be long gone if Israeli governments weren't so obsessed with making them into heroes. The recent Ramallah sieges were a case in point. Arafat's popularty went from zilch to through the ceiling. Palestinians frustrated with zero Palestinian infrastructure and no effort on Arafat's part were probably getting ready to bounce him on his tail. Along come's another of PM Sharon's wonderful moves like the sieges...and up to the top of the charts goes Arafat. It doesn't say much for the Palestinians either, who should have bounced Arafat anyway.
No, you can't just invent things. Show where I said there were no Arabs living in what is now Israel.Originally posted by Erich
Ibrodsky,
you are either not reading my posts...or not comprehending them. Go try again.
Denying Arabs existed in the area now called Israel is about as truthful as claiming many of the other half lies I see in great number here. There are plenty of property records, presented in Israeli courts, dating back much longer than you would like to admit. Others, like Arafat were imported, and would be long gone if Israeli governments weren't so obsessed with making them into heroes. The recent Ramallah sieges were a case in point. Arafat's popularty went from zilch to through the ceiling. Palestinians frustrated with zero Palestinian infrastructure and no effort on Arafat's part were probably getting ready to bounce him on his tail. Along come's another of PM Sharon's wonderful moves like the sieges...and up to the top of the charts goes Arafat. It doesn't say much for the Palestinians either, who should have bounced Arafat anyway.
In fact, I have pointed out many times that there are one million Arabs living in Israel (1948 cease fire line) right now. Apparently, if Zionists drove the Arabs out of their homes and off their land, they forgot quite a large contingent.
Erich, you are welcome to participate here, but please do not tell lies about what other participants said.
Oh, and the popularity of terrorist leaders only reflects the immorality of the Palestinian cause. But you wouldn't comprehend that, because while the sensibilities of Arabs means everything, the lives of Jewish civilians mean nothing to you.
Ibrodsky,Originally posted by ibrodsky
It's amusing that you complain about "ethnic cleansing" when one of the top Palestinian demands is that the West Bank be Jew-free. Never do Palestinians say that Jews could live as a minority with equal rights in a Palestinian state, but they do say that all Jews living in the WB -- women, children, and elderly -- are fair game for Palestinian mass murderers.
And where do you get off saying "Not in my name!"? It's hypocritical enough to complain about the rights of Palestinians without a word about the rights of Israeli children killed on purpose. Apparently, you consider the Palestinian right to not be restricted to their homes (their own fault for collectively supporting terrorism) as trumping the right of Jews to live.
now you are giving me something to work with.
It's interesting that you say "when one of the top Palestinian demands is that the West Bank be Jew-free.", when settlements are Palestinian free, when exclusively Jewish neighborhoods in Israel make it extremely hard for Arab Israelis, full citizens, to try to buy a home in such neighborhoods, reminiscient of American Blacks trying to buy a home in White neighborhoods in decades gone by. It is also interesting that you should try to mask the real issue with your words, the real issue being the evacuation of illegal settlements.
Go back and read my posts if you want to read about the rights of Israeli children. Like the Metzer incident, the most hideous act possible against Israeli children. Also, the predominance of posts on this forum are about the Israelis, most seeing this as a one sided argument, all Palestinians are bad guys and all Israelis are good guys. Anyone who believes that has lost any grip with reality and also fully classes both peoples into categories they don't deserve. There is tremendous diversity on the Israeli side, just take a look at all of the various political parties, movements, settlement groups, peace movements and all the like. The diversity on the Palestinian side is not as great, but maybe that is understandable, considering that their entire civil infrastructure has been destroyed and issues of survival take top priority, but they didn't get there completely on their own.
In case you missed it before, I am against any violent acts against any non combatant, including children, on BOTH sides of this conflict. If you prefer the one sided approach, go read the many other posts on this forum. But, think about this. One sided approaches have never led to peace, only annihilation.
And Pleeeaaaase! Read my words before you claim "without a word about the rights of Israeli children killed on purpose." I resent your false claims and slander and will throw the truth back at you every time.
I also reserve the rights to focus on an issue in a post without qualifying such with nine thousand sentences you want to hear. Some will be about Israel. Some will be about the Palestinians. If you want to solely read about the "percentage" of Palestinians who have aligned themselves with terrorism, funded, supported and driven by other Arab nations and factions, then go the www.hrw.org site I mentioned before and read the exhaustive 172 page document they have put together condemning terrorism and breaking out all of the factions and support apparatus. They do it much better than I can and that document is worth the read if you want to see exactly how evil and how widespread Arab extremism has become.
Ibrodsky,Originally posted by ibrodsky
No, you can't just invent things. Show where I said there were no Arabs living in what is now Israel.
In fact, I have pointed out many times that there are one million Arabs living in Israel (1948 cease fire line) right now. Apparently, if Zionists drove the Arabs out of their homes and off their land, they forgot quite a large contingent.
Erich, you are welcome to participate here, but please do not tell lies about what other participants said.
Oh, and the popularity of terrorist leaders only reflects the immorality of the Palestinian cause. But you wouldn't comprehend that, because while the sensibilities of Arabs means everything, the lives of Jewish civilians mean nothing to you.
There were many other Arabs, besides the Arab Israelis, living in Israel during the creation of Israel. The current Palestinians were not all imported. Most were already there, in addition to many who were pushed out, to become refugees in other countries, like Lebanon. Ever hear of the "Right of Return"? It addresses those other refugees who want to return to Israel. It is a bargaining chip that the Palestinians are going to have to forget about if they ever want peace, but it addresses realities you seem to want to ignore.
The popularity of terrorist leaders, like Arafat, reflects poorly on some Palestinians, like I said before. It does, unfortunately, reflect on the whole of the Palestinian cause, which is something they need to learn, but that does not mean that the entire Palestinian cause is corrupt, as you would like to imply.
Erich,Originally posted by Erich
Communication,
looks like you're making progress. I'm not here to be a student of hate based on lies. The majority of the that is flung around here is nothing but intentional spin, if not outright corruption of anything that nears the truth. Defend Israel at any cost, using any method, to "defend Israel". What a disservice to Israel. Any normal readers watching how these folks "defend Israel" would pull the US support of Israel, thinking the anger and hate here actually represented real Israelis. It may represent some, but very few, mainly the extremists.
The opening posts of this string were copies of what I had posted in a real Israeli forum, where people are willing to address the issues instead of trying to slander anyone who doesn't swallow some kind of crazed party line that is just a rehash of old, transparent propaganda that no one believes anymore, except these so called "defenders of Israel" who very clearly don't know squat about Israel.
Where I see truth on this forum, I will accept it, but it is based on verification from many other sources, not just some flapping tongues with no brain connected that are doing more harm than good to Israel.
Someone on this string has already decided to call me an anti-semite, in a effort to intimidate me from further relating and discussing the truth. I wonder if that poster realizes how impotent the claim of anti-semitism becomes when it is misused in such obvious and useless attempts to slander and intimidate someone who is anything but anti-semitic...and it will become more and more obvious with my continues posts.
If you can handle the truth and discuss realistic solutions that are more than just "transfer" or "ethnic cleansing", then read on over the next few months. If you can't handle the truth or do anymore than sling slander, don't bother to respond...because I will not be intimidated and will be back in your face.
and a good morning to you and yours!
you come on here and fling tons of invectives and then turn around and act rational. That's lame! You posted so much that it would take a year of discussion to make our way through it. I know, I've been on other boards where people have posted these long diatribes before and they usually head off into unproductive feuds. I don't blindly support every action of the Israeli government. There is no government in the world that is 100% right in all its actions. The trick is to offer constructive criticism so that Israel can endure and prosper, not hateful attacks so that she can become the villan.
So out of the 100 or so topics that you packed into your previous posts in this thread, what is the most burning question you have and maybe we can start there. Otherwise, this thread is going nowhere fast.
No, Arabs -- unfortunately -- account for a whopping 20% (!) of Israel's population, and they live freely, with full citizenship rights and own land in all of Israel's major cities like Jerusalem, Haifa, Beer Sheva, Tel Aviv-Yaffo, etc., as well in countless other places in Israel.Originally posted by Erich
It's interesting that you say "when one of the top Palestinian demands is that the West Bank be Jew-free.", when settlements are Palestinian free, when exclusively Jewish neighborhoods in Israel make it extremely hard for Arab Israelis, full citizens, to try to buy a home in such neighborhoods...
On the other hand, the Palestinian goal has always been to ethnically cleanse the Jews out of the Middle East by slaughtering Israel's Jewish population.
That is why the official law of the Palestinian Authority is that anyone caught selling land to a Jew will be put to death immediately. That is why there are no Jews at all living in any Palestinian town, and incidents like the Metzer mass murder of Jewish children and their mothers is designed to result in ethnic cleansing.
Do you deny this, Erich?
Right and wrong are not childish notions at all. In fact, being able to tell the difference between the two is used in our legal system as a litmus test for sanity.Originally posted by Erich
Somewhere maturity sets in and everyone is supposed to realize that life isn't as cut and dried as it appeared in childhood.
No, there is no need to wait for every single Palestinian to participate in the onging Jihad to be aware of the phenomenon. But in any event, according to the Palestinians themselves, 80-90% support terrorism against Israel.As to your "Palestinian Jihad war", you are again over simplifying and generalizing against a whole people. Without knowing every Palestinian, which you clearly don't, your claim is ludicrous.
I've always found it amazing to see how patronizing and disrespectful Arab apologists are towards the Arabs themselves, by disregarding the words of the Palestinian population.
I, on the other hand, do not presume to put words into the mouth of the Palestinians. I take them at their own word when they overwhelmingly state that they want to murder as many Jews as possible and ethnically cleanse the Jews out of the Jewish homeland.
Instead of making up palatable positions for the Palestinians, listen to them, Erich. You might learn something new that could shed light on what's really going on.
Of course in Israel there are dozens of political parties and opinions. In Arafatistan, though, any dissent is grounds for being beheaded and dragged through the streets decapitated.It would be just as ludicrous for me to state that all Israelis think the same way as the Settlers or the Likud, which is certainly not true.
That's right. Well said.Terrorism, such as the Hezbollah, Islamic Juihad, Al Aqsa...and numerous other efforts is a crime against humanity and then some. Anyone stooping to such behaviour, below the lowest form of animal, should be contained...or killed if they resist capture. They impose too high of a danger to humanity to be allowed to carry out their barbaric acts...and are too stupid to realize that their opponents' resolve becomes as hard as diamond in the fight against terrorism. Their acts can only lead to their own eventual destruction...as they leave their victims no choice but to hunt them down.
I don't know about "getting off." I never quite thought of it that way.You get off on pointing the finger at the bad guys? Go take a look at the 172 page document that Human Rights Watch posted on their www.hrw.org site and read it through. I have, and you will become even more outraged at the extent of the entire terrorist aparatus that is in place...and is allowed to exist.
But as for the HRW, let me remind you of a few things:
1. The UN racist convention in Durban, SA, where the so-called Human Rights groups and NGOs displayed some of the ugliest public anti-Semitism in seen in a non-Muslim country in decades. They have no credibility in my mind at this point.
They've criticized the U.S. for fighting terrorism after 9/11, they've made a career criticizing Israel for fighting terrorism and they've even called the Palestinian terrorist acts Crimes Against Humanity. So what?
There Human Rights groups are relics of another era, before suicide bombers and Islamic terrorism appeared on the scene with a completely new set of rules that the Human Rights organizations have yet to grasp. That's why they're so out of touch with reality in their sanctimonious ivory towers.
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