By the by the only people I've ever met who said zionism is racism are antisemitic racists. That's what you are. And if you don't like that label you can literally bang your head on the wall until the white meat shows.
Home | 
By the by the only people I've ever met who said zionism is racism are antisemitic racists. That's what you are. And if you don't like that label you can literally bang your head on the wall until the white meat shows.
Jump to conclusions much?Originally posted by Mediocrates
No that's ok, it no less unreadable than your short ones.
An off-duty Army regular carrying a firearm "escorting" civilians through the occupied territories is NO CIVILIAN, sorry. And as for any guarantees by Arafat in the Oslo Accord, don't make me laugh. Israel picks and chooses which agreements suit them, which ain't the way it works.
So it's suicide for the Jews is it. Ok well that sort of makes sense from your perspective. The only good Israeli is a dead Israeli.
The only terrorism is Jewish terrorism. I hear you loud and clear.
You want it both ways? You want to be able to call Palestinians "dogs" and "curs' and "beasts" and denigrate them and fence them in and arrest them and detain them indefinitely and talk about ethnic cleansing and talk about sending them somewhere else and then you expect to BE ABLE TO WALK AROUND IN PEACE IN A WARZONE? You're fooling yourself.
And no, the only terrorism is not Jewish terrorism. The TWO terrorisms going on now are Palestinian terrorism (suicide bombers, etc) and Israeli State-Sponsored Terrorism (F16's firing into buildings, bulldozing houses, slaughtering civilians, etc). The Israeli terrorism is far better funded, led, and far more murderous.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15028
Hope this one is more palatable to you.
Jako
Don Hazen's follyOriginally posted by Jako
Jump to conclusions much?
You want it both ways? You want to be able to call Palestinians "dogs" and "curs' and "beasts" and denigrate them and fence them in and arrest them and detain them indefinitely and talk about ethnic cleansing and talk about sending them somewhere else and then you expect to BE ABLE TO WALK AROUND IN PEACE IN A WARZONE? You're fooling yourself.
And no, the only terrorism is not Jewish terrorism. The TWO terrorisms going on now are Palestinian terrorism (suicide bombers, etc) and Israeli State-Sponsored Terrorism (F16's firing into buildings, bulldozing houses, slaughtering civilians, etc). The Israeli terrorism is far better funded, led, and far more murderous.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15028
Hope this one is more palatable to you.
Jako
also:......Alternet was created to serve the members of the Association of Alternative Newsweeklies, a national trade group, but shortly after Don Hazen took over as executive director, he began transforming IAJ/Alternet into his personal fiefdom.
Hazen was after foundation money to expand the operation, and running a humble wire service that helped small alternative papers around the country share stories wasn't going to attract big grants. So he began to branch out, to do things like running conferences on "Media and Democracy."
Meanwhile, we noticed, the wire service was no longer serving its clients. Alternet routinely ignored or blacked out big stories of the sort that you'd think an alternative news service would be all over – stories about the privatization of public resources, about the Presidio scandal, about the problems at KPFA, Pacifica, KQED, and PBS, about big problems happening in cities all over the country that Hazen suddenly decided were "too local" or otherwise not worthy of attention. There was a pattern in all of this: nothing that went out on Alternet would offend any of the big foundations Hazen was soliciting for grants.
And, we later learned, Hazen was soliciting grants from the Tides Foundation, which had just gotten a sweetheart lease at the Presidio. Tides also received money from the Energy Foundation, which was pushing private utility-backed energy deregulation.
It's a pattern we've seen repeatedly among groups on the left (see "Pulling Strings," 10/8/97). As other sources of financial support have dried up, nonprofit organizations have become political slaves to the foundation funders, allowing the funders to dictate what sorts of activities are – and aren't – acceptable. That has had a profound impact, limiting the scope of the progressive agenda and ensuring that groups seeking structural political change (opposing, for example, privatization of resources) don't get the money they need to survive – while more tame groups that don't really challenge corporate-sponsored foundations grow and prosper.
What frustrated us the most, perhaps, was the fact that Hazen did this all in secret. He refused to open board meetings even to members of AAN, which was subsidizing his organization to the tune of $35,000 a year in dues. He refused to release the minutes of board meetings. And he refused to release the full list of his foundation funders, the amounts of money he got from them, and the conditions attached to those grants.
This was, and is, unacceptable behavior for a journalism organization, and it violates every accepted code of journalistic ethics. (As a matter of contrast, AAN board meetings and records are open to all members, as are the board meetings, minutes, and finances of the more mainstream Investigative Reporters and Editors Inc.) In San Francisco – the home of the nonprofit sunshine and accountability movement – Hazen was pushing secrecy and sleaze. And it only increased the perception that the foundation funding was determining Hazen's agenda.
The frustration over IAJ's bad service and bad politics drove the Association of Alternative Newsweeklies last year to sever all ties with the group it had founded.
But the situation gets worse. Hazen moved IAJ from Washington, D.C., to San Francisco six years ago – and he still hasn't filed the basic paperwork that would allow the organization to operate legally as a nonprofit in San Francisco and California. What that means, among other things, is that the organization (now renamed IMI) has no valid state tax exemption, no valid business license, no valid registration with the state Registry of Charitable Trusts. And it means that key information about the group's finances that must by law be included on those public filings is still secret. ......
Charles Sheehan-Miles, the author of the article you present from the ALternet is identified by Time magazine as one of the current leaders of the I R A Q / T H E A N T I W A R M O V E M E N T so his point of view on Israel is somehow slanted without any redeeming objectivity. The article he writes (which you brought as any sort of proof for your point) is full of hatered and spite, by the way, so whatever is his point the article, including the picture which uses a religious soldier in order to further make its hateful stance clear, well, this article should be dismissed as manipulative and unobjective.
Last edited by Batman; 01-28-2003 at 11:29 AM.
Okay then, here's a few more, same story, same gist, different websites....Originally posted by Batman
Don Hazen's folly
http://www.upi.com/print.cfm?StoryID...5-035849-6156r
http://jerusalem.indymedia.org/news/2003/01/103012.php
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0116-10.htm
and here's another report, too good not to share
http://wwww.reliefweb.int/w/rwb.nsf/...256cb70051c0d7
Jako
Who do I call what exactly?Originally posted by Jako
Jump to conclusions much?
You want it both ways? You want to be able to call Palestinians "dogs" and "curs' and "beasts" and denigrate them and fence them in and arrest them and detain them indefinitely and talk about ethnic cleansing and talk about sending them somewhere else and then you expect to BE ABLE TO WALK AROUND IN PEACE IN A WARZONE? You're fooling yourself.
And no, the only terrorism is not Jewish terrorism. The TWO terrorisms going on now are Palestinian terrorism (suicide bombers, etc) and Israeli State-Sponsored Terrorism (F16's firing into buildings, bulldozing houses, slaughtering civilians, etc). The Israeli terrorism is far better funded, led, and far more murderous.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15028
Hope this one is more palatable to you.
Jako
So WTF is it to be then? Make up yer effing mind. If it's a war zone then it's a war zone and thats what it is. Better duck.
If it's not a warzone and innocent people are getting slaughtered then say that. But don't hide behind snipers and then claim they 'should have known'. Screw that and boil all the people who believe it.
You can't dialup the accusation de jour and make it stick. And really enough of this equivalency - everything is terrorism warble. That's just a shortcut to not thinking very hard about it.
Fact is, since you imagine this morally vacuous country with it's fangs out and limitless power to wreak mayhem on Palestinians and small furry pets then WTF doesn't that actually happen? Eh? Can you or someone else actually manage to give a credible answer to that?
They're so beastly they could wipe them all out.
But
They
Don't
So maybe that whole line of 'thought' is cockeyed. So what's it to be, the evil zionmenace biting the heads off children or is it a measured response to terrorism? Which is it. Can't pull out both cards because that's just the same old paranoid antisemitic conspiracy theory agitprop hatespeech everyone else has.
Heh. Good one, Medio.
Originally posted by Jako
Okay then, here's a few more, same story, same gist, different websites....
those are lovely stories. so? it's a warzone is it not? your words. if you really really want to play pity me games we can. a person I know lost members of her family and is permanently disabled as a result of a bombing. someone else lost 4 or 5 members of his military unit to a sniper. I personally help support famlies where one or both parents were murdered. that's not pity, that's my responsibility as a human being.
see that doesn't lead anywhere otherwise and the sooner that all the peaceloving peaceful people of peace of PLOistan get that one simple message then the sooner they can stop trying to kill every last jew. why do you think the army has to protect jews in Hevron? why do you think that is? because they just like to shoot people? they have an extra tank and it shouldn't go to waste? Why? because they would all be killed otherwise. because they would be overrun and murdered no different than a pogrom - every last man woman and child, anytime anywhere. that's why so don't even try to lecture me about guards who guarding people and are therefore legitimate targets.
Mediocrates: By the by the only people I've ever met who said zionism is racism are antisemitic racists. That's what you are. And if you don't like that label you can literally bang your head on the wall until the white meat shows.
Haha, good one. If all the people YOU'VE ever met who were Anti-Zionist were actually anti-semitic maybe you should meet more people. Or maybe you should stop throwing that stupid label around. Is Zionism and Jewishness the same thing? Not quite. So why does hating one mean hating another. I don't follow your logic.
And whatever, call me an Anti-Semite, I couldn't care less. I know who I am and what I believe, so continue your name-calling. I think you also called me a peace-loving Arabist, so at least we have some variety.
Fact is, since you imagine this morally vacuous country with it's fangs out and limitless power to wreak mayhem on Palestinians and small furry pets then WTF doesn't that actually happen? Eh? Can you or someone else actually manage to give a credible answer to that?
They're so beastly they could wipe them all out.
Um, think to yourself why the MAJORITY OF THE WORLD is against Israel's policies in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Is this because the MAJORITY OF THE WORLD is just stupid? Fed lies by their Arab masters? I mean, let's look at the amount of international condemnation that has been heaped on Israel because of this.
And as to if Israel "with it's fangs out and limitless power to wreak mayhem on Palestinians and small furry pets then WTF doesn't that actually happen?". It does, every single day.
http://members.cox.net/informationcl...rticle1072.htm
Israel's Kill's One Palestinian Every Two Hours. No Serious Objections
27 January 2003 - The Palestine Monitor
"The Israelis have now killed 24 Palestinians in the last 48 hours - an
average of one Palestinian every two hours - with no serious objections
coming from the international community," said Palestinian human rights
activist Dr Mustafa Barghouthi, speaking from Ramallah today. "This silence
in the face of such whole-scale slaughter is simply unconscionable."
Or check out Amnesty International, unless you figure they are anti-semitic:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/...d_territories/
Here's some good Jenin stuff too:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/2002/israel04222002.html
Jako
-looks like it's mainly you and me Med
Zionism is part of being Jewish. Denying your national identity is alarming. If you deny Jews of being a nation among others you do have something against Jews.
So would you recap on who was killed and why? People seem to think that all Palestinians are innocent people who have never even pulled a trigger. Like you, these people assume that IDF soldiers are in the territories and arbitrarily shoot people without reason.
It's odd that Israelis are demanded to be super-human in war-zones where it is difficult to tell who is going to attack you and who is not. Why don't you try it out and then come and tell us how you knew before hand that this guy will/will not shoot.
yes Jako I read the same crossposted sources over and over. but you're claiming some kind of hyperbolics. genocide every day, fill the skies with planes. makes an interesting sound byte but truth belies it.
[deleted]Originally posted by Jako
Mediocrates: By the by the only people I've ever met who said zionism is racism are antisemitic racists. That's what you are. And if you don't like that label you can literally bang your head on the wall until the white meat shows.
Haha, good one. If all the people YOU'VE ever met who were Anti-Zionist were actually anti-semitic maybe you should meet more people. Or maybe you should stop throwing that stupid label around. Is Zionism and Jewishness the same thing? Not quite. So why does hating one mean hating another. I don't follow your logic.
And whatever, call me an Anti-Semite, I couldn't care less. I know who I am and what I believe, so continue your name-calling. I think you also called me a peace-loving Arabist, so at least we have some variety.
Fact is, since you imagine this morally vacuous country with it's fangs out and limitless power to wreak mayhem on Palestinians and small furry pets then WTF doesn't that actually happen? Eh? Can you or someone else actually manage to give a credible answer to that?
They're so beastly they could wipe them all out.
Um, think to yourself why the MAJORITY OF THE WORLD is against Israel's policies in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Is this because the MAJORITY OF THE WORLD is just stupid? Fed lies by their Arab masters? I mean, let's look at the amount of international condemnation that has been heaped on Israel because of this.
And as to if Israel "with it's fangs out and limitless power to wreak mayhem on Palestinians and small furry pets then WTF doesn't that actually happen?". It does, every single day.
http://members.cox.net/informationcl...rticle1072.htm
Israel's Kill's One Palestinian Every Two Hours. No Serious Objections
27 January 2003 - The Palestine Monitor
"The Israelis have now killed 24 Palestinians in the last 48 hours - an
average of one Palestinian every two hours - with no serious objections
coming from the international community," said Palestinian human rights
activist Dr Mustafa Barghouthi, speaking from Ramallah today. "This silence
in the face of such whole-scale slaughter is simply unconscionable."
Or check out Amnesty International, unless you figure they are anti-semitic:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/...d_territories/
Here's some good Jenin stuff too:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/2002/israel04222002.html
Jako
-looks like it's mainly you and me Med
Um, EVERY PALESTINIAN IS NOT A TERRORIST. Careful, your racism and ignorance are showing.
I am very careful you know, and I know that not every pal is a terrorist but how should I find out? any suggestions? should I take my chances? I think not.
I want to live, as opposed to them who find martyrdom the best form of not living.
danholo: "Zionism is part of being Jewish. Denying your national identity is alarming. If you deny Jews of being a nation among others you do have something against Jews."
? Sorry to burst your bubble, but JEWISH is not a nationality. ISRAELI is a nationality, JEWISH is a RELIGION, SEMITIC is a RACE. I'd figure you know this but clearly not. And I would imagine that millions of Jews would disagree with your "Zionism is part of being Jewish" statement.
So would you recap on who was killed and why? People seem to think that all Palestinians are innocent people who have never even pulled a trigger. Like you, these people assume that IDF soldiers are in the territories and arbitrarily shoot people without reason.
It's odd that Israelis are demanded to be super-human in war-zones where it is difficult to tell who is going to attack you and who is not. Why don't you try it out and then come and tell us how you knew before hand that this guy will/will not shoot.
Again, I am straining to find your logic here. The Occupied Territories are creations of Israel, a warzone created by the government. IDF soldiers in the Occupied Territories are there to "protect Israeli interests" at the COST of Palestinian ones.
"In the Gaza Strip, Israeli army bulldozers demolished three homes in the town of Rafah on Thursday, as well as two wells that provide water for thousands of residents, Palestinian witnesses said. The army did not immediately comment on the operation in Rafah." (http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...363016,00.html)
Water for thousands of residents! How many of them do you figure hated Israel before they got their WATER cut off? How many hate them now?
I don't think all Palestinians are innocent, either. There are radicals everywhere, and some Palestinians are radicals without a doubt. Mashing them all into one category is simplistic and ignorant.
Mediocrates: "yes Jako I read the same crossposted sources over and over. but you're claiming some kind of hyperbolics. genocide every day, fill the skies with planes. makes an interesting sound byte but truth belies it."
Unfortunately, it seems to happen FAR more often now than ever before (maybe it's just because I pay more attention now, can't say). I wonder who came up with the idea of "if you attack us we will attack you and destroy your homes", it's moronic. Violence begets violence, hatred begets hatred. t just adds fuel to the fire, and brings Israelis DOWN to the TERRORISTS level (an eye for an eye, which is nicely medieval for 2003).
keren7: "I am very careful you know, and I know that not every pal is a terrorist but how should I find out? any suggestions? should I take my chances? I think not.
I want to live, as opposed to them who find martyrdom the best form of not living."
Do you assume that every human being who looks similar and is the same race is THE EXACT SAME PERSON? If one Palestinian blows himself up that means ALL Palestinians want to? If one German in the 1930's and '40's wanted to exterminate all Jews, do ALL GERMANS? If one Israeli assassinates his own Prime Minister, is EVERY Israeli an assassin? I mean, be reasonable. We all have our own personalities, and our own IDENTITY.
ALL Palestinians find martyrdom the best form of not living? They would ALL rather die than live? Who filled you with all this hatred and lies?
Jako
Unfortunately, it seems to happen FAR more often now than ever before (maybe it's just because I pay more attention now, can't say).
No you're just being hyperbolic. Your're just a few adjectives from zionism is nazism, genocide, ethnic cleansing.........
I wonder who came up with the idea of "if you attack us we will attack you and destroy your homes", it's moronic. Violence begets violence, hatred begets hatred. t just adds fuel to the fire, and brings Israelis DOWN to the TERRORISTS level
As opposed to laying down to die for the sake of people who would cheer anyway? We said "Never Again". We sincerely and with our whole souls meant both of those words and the PLO will get nowhere until they too understand that.
Actually in the Mish Patim or civil code inside of Exodus and Deuteronomy that phrase means "making the punishment fit the crime" to borrow a phrase from the Mikado. It's about justice and equity, not revenge. And it is vitally important in this day and age to make that distinction. The Israelis will defend themselves, they will not lay down. And that is not the same thing as aggression no matter what the 'conflict resolution' world view thinks. Giving in to terrorism is not peace no matter how bedraggled and miserable terrorists appear.(an eye for an eye, which is nicely medieval for 2003).
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks