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Interesting development in the Knesset:
Read more: http://forward.com/articles/148576/#ixzz1hePNLtxTThe Foreign Ministry warned that Israel痴 possible recognition of the Armenian genocide, which was discussed in a Knesset committee on Monday, could lead to the serious deterioration of Israel痴 ties with Turkey.
A Knesset committee discussed on Monday the possibility of setting a memorial day for the Armenian genocide by the Turkish people nearly 100 years ago, marking a first in Israeli history.
What Turkish ties? The ones that Erdogan and his merry men destroyed?
Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright
This really is disgusting. The alleged genocide and its recogntion and memory of its victims cannot be an elegant currency or a trade-off. It's not Jewish, it's not moral, it's plain wrong.
It should be recognized if the facts of history point to it or it should be rejected otherwise but either verdict cannot depend on the development of Israel's relationship with Turkey.
Who else in the world can possibly know better?
Agree 100% with Kachah (this may be an occasion to celebrate...)
Well, it's still Hanukka after all, miracles can happen...Originally Posted by curlyg
We say or do things not because we feel they are right but because they will foster stronger ties or it is a good time or in retaliation for something equally preposterous. This "realpolitik" sucks.
Well said, Kachah, throughout
The 'realpolitik' does suck, indeed.
No need to be cynical. When a nation recognizes their own atrocities it's a watershed moment in learning to understand the plight of others. We've never seen a serious review of Stalinism, have we? So Russia can't be expected to ever act in a humane and thoughtful way.
Very good point, Medio. Indeed, Russia has the biggest list of atrocities to admit. And you know my opinion - it's not going to be able to do that on its own. It'll have to be forced to pretty much like the Nazi Germany. It doesn't have the capacity inside itself, all organs are rotten to the core. You can see that in the current protests - Putin is no good but the so called "opposition" isn't much better really.
Sure, there are cases of genocide and mass murder and other despicable crimes for Russia to come to terms with and without this process it will never climb out of its shithole. People's lives are short but history will wait.
'Realpolitik' sucks indeed, yet most nations indulge in it.
as far as the recognition the Armenian genocide, if we want to avoid the accusation of 'realpolitik' then this is the situation ...
- If history does point to it, we should have recognized the genocide while we were supposedly still friends with Turkey.
- If history does not point to it, now is the time to say so
Having said all that, I'll also say this. Let's forget this 'light unto the nations' delusion. Let's join humanity and behave like the rest of humanity. Being 'a light unto the nations' thing sucks too. People kick us for it because they take it as arrogance. And maybe just maybe it is ...
Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright
Correct. Even more, if we see us as friends - let's work with them to see how we can help.
But I don't think there is an official opinion on the matter. It's just another jocker in our deck of playing cards - it can turn into "yes" or "now" depending on how the game's being played and that's what's wrong.
And, by the way, there isn't much real about this realpolitik, it originated from the West Germany (and Western Europe in general) who were basically trying to suck up to the USSR for cheap energy while being protected by the American missiles from the greater consequences.
Kachah
Don't get me wrong. I am not wrapped in the virtues of realpolitik but it is true that most nations practice it. In fact, I think that's why Israel is the country that is under constant political pressure because it has no oil and is not part of a 1.3 billion people power bloc.
But and there is always a "but" is it always realistic for Israel to conduct it's business ignoring realpolitik? I wish I could say an unqualified yes to that but I am not sure I can. That's my dilemma.
Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright
I say do the right thing recognize the plight of the Armenians and let the chips fall where they may. Today Turkish aircraft attacked a Kurdish village in eastern Turkey killing about 40 men women and children. Once a Turk always a Turk. This is the point to be made.
Actually, I agree. If indeed the Turks are guilty, then we should recognize the Armenian genocide. The point is that having waited till now. Israel will be accused of insincerity, that it is only doing it as an act of revenge. The Turks will be furious (so be it) but even the Armenians won't be impressed, nor will too many others. It will be the worst of all worlds. So maybe just maybe Israel should have done it before?
However, my point about realpolitik still stands. I don't think Israel can afford not to indulge in it. But there should be matters of conscience that should be above realpolitik.
Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright
Push their buttons. Always ALWAYS push their buttons. There is very little downside.
Then maybe a team of historians (not politicians) should take a look at this matter and come to conclusion instead of saying "hey we hate turks so let's recognize the armenian genocide". This is even dumber.
No Medi, hell no! 40 of them were 7 month old babies smuggling weapons, drugs and oil. I repeat, they were not women and children! All 40 were 7 month old babies.
Israel and Turkey share much in common but they can't get along for some reason. Arabs smuggle stuff through underground tunnels, pkk smuggle with donkeys in the borders. Turks blame Jews killing tunnel rats, Jews blame Turks killing donkey riders. This is so bloody stressing.
All those who recognized have already waited a century. All the sudden almost all of them recognized at the same time. Hell of a magic, isn't it?
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