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Thread: ]Scottish independence: Saturday referendum may prohibit Jewish vote

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    Senior Member Bill Sticker's Avatar
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    ]Scottish independence: Saturday referendum may prohibit Jewish vote

    Scottish independence: Saturday referendum may prohibit Jewish vote
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...ce=twitterfeed

    Religious leaders are expected to appeal proposals for a Saturday referendum. Picture: PA
    Published on Tuesday 6 March 2012 13:41

    THOUSANDS of Jewish voters may be “forbidden” from taking part in the independence referendum if it is held on a Saturday, religious leaders are expected to warn.

    The Scottish Council of Jewish Communities (Scojec) said “a Saturday ballot would disadvantage Jewish voters, since those who observe Shabbat (the Jewish Sabbath) would not be able to vote on the day of the referendum”.

    The council is still consulting members on its final response to the Scottish Government’s Your Scotland, Your Referendum paper.

    The draft also warns that a Saturday referendum could discriminate against Jewish workers, who may face pressure to work or could be excluded from part-time referendum positions.

    The draft response continues: “Proxy voting would not be available to Shabbat-observant Jewish people, since Jewish religious law does not permit asking someone else to carry out a forbidden activity on one’s behalf on Shabbat.

    “Postal voting, although permissible, is not without drawbacks, since it requires a voter to decide how to cast his or her vote well before the end of the campaign.

    “Equality of opportunity requires that no-one should be compelled to vote by post on account of his or her religion, which would be the case if the referendum were to be held on a Saturday.”

    The draft concluded: “It is unacceptable to legislate so as to create an occasion for indirect discrimination against any particular group of potential employees.

    “We therefore urge that the referendum should not be held on a Saturday, or at least not only on a Saturday, and also not on any religious festival that would similarly prevent full participation by any faith community.”

    According to the 2001 census, Jews accounted for 0.13% of the Scottish population amounting to around 6,400 people.

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    Senior Member Bill Sticker's Avatar
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    Re : Scottish independence: Saturday referendum may prohibit Jewish vote

    SNP activist: Dead British soldiers are 'a bunch of child killers'
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...d-killers.html

    The six British soldiers who died in Afghanistan deserve no sympathy because servicemen are a “bunch of child killers”, an SNP activist has said.
    Jim Murphy attacked the SNP activist's comments on the soldiers' deaths as 'sick stuff'

    By Simon Johnson, Scottish Political Editor

    6:53PM GMT 07 Mar 2012

    Thomas Ball, who claimed to have been a party organiser in Nicola Sturgeon’s former Glasgow Govan seat, used the social networking website Twitter to post a series of repugnant comments about the deaths.

    He attacked the soldiers for “protecting their country by bayoneting 10-year-olds” and said the majority of servicemen are “racist, arrogant, undereducated thugs who join up for the ‘thrill’ of killing humans.”

    Opposition parties last night expressed their disgust and urged Alex Salmond, the First Minister, to belatedly crack down on the legions of SNP internet bloggers who pour vile abuse on their targets.

    Mr Ball also had a blog stating he was an “SNP activist” but later changed this to read “pro-independence activist” and denied even being a party member.

    This was initially contradicted by the SNP, who confirmed his membership before stating last night that he had resigned.
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    The row emerged only 24 hours after Joan McAlpine, Mr Salmond’s parliamentary aide, used a newspaper column to compare the Union between England and Scotland to an abusive marriage.

    However, the First Minister has failed to curb the activities the so-called ‘Cybernats’ even after another prominent activist used his blog two years ago to falsely suggest the death of a young Labour supporter was linked to crack cocaine.

    In another example, a constituency aide to Mike Russell, the Scottish Education Minister, was sacked in 2009 after smearing individual political rivals on his blog.

    Mr Ball’s tirade was prompted by the Prime Minister announcing the deaths of the six soldiers after their armoured vehicle was caught in an explosion. It is the single biggest British loss of life in the Afghan campaign for six years.

    He used his first Twitter entry to question why the deaths of the six British soldiers on the eastern border of Helmand province were getting so much media coverage.

    Rejecting accusations he from other angry Twitter users that the soldiers had died “fighting for the likes of you”, he wrote: “There’s no British soldier fighting for anything I believe in. Bunch of child killers.”

    In a later post, he added: “’Our Heroes’ are protecting their country by bayoneting 10-year-olds in Afghanistan.” After condemning soldiers as ignorant racists, he said he had lived in a military town and found the British “awful”.

    “They accept danger as an occupational hazard of the enjoyment they get from killing human beings,” he continued.

    After receiving a barrage of criticism from other users, he said not every soldier is a child killer but “there is that element right through the British Army.”

    Mr Ball repeatedly emphasised the views were his own but Jim Murphy, Labour’s Shadow Defence Secretary, said the attacks on the dead soldiers were “unacceptable” and urged the SNP to discipline him.

    “This is sick stuff which will offend anyone with an ounce of decency and pride in our country. The SNP need to crackdown on these disgusting comments from this guy,” the East Renfrewshire MP said.

    “British soldiers, including many from Scotland, serve our country with pride, professionalism, and an utter dedication to protect life.”

    Willie Rennie, the Scottish Liberal Democrat leader, used his party conference speech last Sunday to warn the First Minister about the activities of the SNP bloggers.

    He said: "Alex Salmond must crack down on his Cybernats and their offensive bile.

    "I’ve been to Afghanistan and met our soldiers who selflessly put their lives on the line for our security. They deserve our respect and admiration, not bile and criticism."

    An SNP spokesman said: “We entirely disagree with Mr Ball's comments, and he holds no position within the SNP. He is a party member, but he was never an organiser in Govan constituency.”

    He said Mr Ball was a member of the Glasgow Pollok branch where he helped Chris Stephens, the SNP candidate in last year’s Scottish Parliament election, fight his unsuccessful campaign to unseat Labour’s Johann Lamont.

    The SNP later issued a second statement saying: “He has contacted headquarters this evening to resign his party membership.”
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    Re: ]Scottish independence: Saturday referendum may prohibit Jewish vote

    The SNP later issued a second statement saying: “He has contacted headquarters this evening to resign his party membership.”

    One would think so - let them, the Scots, have independence but make them pay the freight for it. They, in fact, get more consideration than the English when it comes to cancer treatment and medications... I'm sure they also have other benefits others within the UK do not. You would likely know more about this than me, Bill. We have unending issues with Quebec - they whine and whinge, holding out their bowl for more... if not, they spit out their dummies, throw a tantrum while threatening to run away from home! I wish they would.
    I have no problem with the Scotland gaining independence as long as they no longer benefit as if they were part of the UK.

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    Senior Member Pleepleus's Avatar
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    Re: ]Scottish independence: Saturday referendum may prohibit Jewish vote

    A January 2012 poll put support for Scottish independence at only 37%.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012...n_1255544.html

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    Senior Member Kachah's Avatar
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    Re: ]Scottish independence: Saturday referendum may prohibit Jewish vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Pleepleus View Post
    A January 2012 poll put support for Scottish independence at only 37%.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012...n_1255544.html
    Yeah, let's just quote straight from the text:
    However, more than a fifth of voters, 21%, said they were undecided on the issue.

    Of those who were clear about their opinion, 47% said they were for independence and 53% were against it.
    The picture becomes a bit different, doesn't it?

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    Senior Member Pleepleus's Avatar
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    Re: ]Scottish independence: Saturday referendum may prohibit Jewish vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Kachah View Post
    Yeah, let's just quote straight from the text: The picture becomes a bit different, doesn't it?
    No, you're just excluding a portion of the people who will be making the final decision. There is not clear support for independence in Scotland.

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    Senior Member Kachah's Avatar
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    Re: ]Scottish independence: Saturday referendum may prohibit Jewish vote

    Pleepleus, why are you trying so hard to be difficult?
    If your original statement that only 37% support independence was comprehensively correct it puts the "against" vote in over 60% bracket which paints the picture of overwhelming support for the status quo.
    In fact the question as I have revealed hangs almost in balance with the 47-53 in favor of the union. BUT, there is 1/5 of the voters who have not made up their mind yet and can easily tip the scales EITHER WAY. The outcome is not assured that is. And that's all I've said.

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    Senior Member Pleepleus's Avatar
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    Re: ]Scottish independence: Saturday referendum may prohibit Jewish vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Kachah View Post
    Pleepleus, why are you trying so hard to be difficult?
    If your original statement that only 37% support independence was comprehensively correct it puts the "against" vote in over 60% bracket which paints the picture of overwhelming support for the status quo.
    In fact the question as I have revealed hangs almost in balance with the 47-53 in favor of the union. BUT, there is 1/5 of the voters who have not made up their mind yet and can easily tip the scales EITHER WAY. The outcome is not assured that is. And that's all I've said.
    Ziggy had posted that they should let the Scots have independence, and my point was that it is not clear that the Scots want independence. That was my whole point.

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    Senior Member Kachah's Avatar
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    Re: ]Scottish independence: Saturday referendum may prohibit Jewish vote

    No, your point was that "only 37%" support independence. That paints somewhat distorted picture.
    By the way, I personally don't give a damn if Scotland stays or goes. Strategically, having in mind euromaniacs' aspirations - probably independence of Scotland might have some sobering effect on them. Europe is going to the dogs anyway. Common sense has left the continent.

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    Senior Member Pleepleus's Avatar
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    Re: ]Scottish independence: Saturday referendum may prohibit Jewish vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Kachah View Post
    No, your point was that "only 37%" support independence. That paints somewhat distorted picture.
    By the way, I personally don't give a damn if Scotland stays or goes. Strategically, having in mind euromaniacs' aspirations - probably independence of Scotland might have some sobering effect on them. Europe is going to the dogs anyway. Common sense has left the continent.
    It is absolutely accurate that only 37% currently support independence. And my point was that it is not clear that the Scots want independence. I told you what I said and why and that is the truth.

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    Senior Member dayag's Avatar
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    Re: ]Scottish independence: Saturday referendum may prohibit Jewish vote

    Things are getting a little too heated. Let's discuss events and ideas and not each other.

    A friendly reminder to all. Please feel free to disagree with others as vehemently as you want, but DO NOT GET PERSONAL.

    from the rules of the road:

    Everyone has the right to express his/her opinion, regardless of how vehemently some may disagree with their views. However, common courtesy is required.

    Personal attacks are not allowed.

    source: http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php?t=11
    Thanks.
    "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you, if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy." (Ps. 137: 5-7)"

    "Any generation in which the Temple is not built, it is as if it had been destroyed in their times" (Yerushalmi, Yoma 1a).

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