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Thread: IDF: Attack on activist not representative of army conduct

  1. #1
    Senior Member dayag's Avatar
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    IDF: Attack on activist not representative of army conduct

    I hope Eisner gets a fair hearing, but if he is guilty....

    The IDF on Monday condemned an officer filmed striking a pro-Palestinian activist, but stated that the incident should not be taken out of context to misrepresent the values of the Israeli army.

    A senior IDF officer had been captured on videotape Saturday beating a left-wing activist in the face with his M-16 rifle.

    According to the video, posted on YouTube by the International Solidarity Movement, Lt.-Col. Shalom Eisner, deputy commander of the Jordan Valley Brigade is seen taking his M-16 and slamming it in the face of a blond haired activist...

    The IDF's OC Central Command Maj.-Gen. Nitzan Alon ordered the opening of an investigation into the incident. Upon receiving the preliminary results of the investigation Sunday night, Alon suspended Eisner until the completion of the probe.

    In addition, the Military Advocate-General's office decided to open a criminal investigation into the incident, which IDF Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Benny Gantz said Sunday evening was not representative of the IDF's ethics and morals and would be fully investigated and treated with the utmost gravity.

    Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu on Sunday condemned the actions of the officer, saying that "this behavior does not characterize IDF officers and soldiers, and it has no place in the IDF."...

    Such violence by a senior officer is rare in the West Bank and soldiers serving in the West Bank are generally trained to show restraint during demonstrations or civil disturbances.

    According to the Palestinians, the incident took place on Saturday during a cycling tour around the Jordan Valley by European, Israeli and Palestinian activists.

    The Wafa news agency said that the IDF stopped the 250 participants along Road 90 near the West Bank village of al Ouja and refused to allow them to continue. When the cyclists refused, scuffles broke out. A number of the participants in the demonstration were injured and taken to hospital in Jericho. The IDF arrested a number of the activists.
    source: http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=266192
    "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you, if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy." (Ps. 137: 5-7)"

    "Any generation in which the Temple is not built, it is as if it had been destroyed in their times" (Yerushalmi, Yoma 1a).

  2. #2
    Senior Member JerichoMissile's Avatar
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    Re: IDF: Attack on activist not representative of army conduct

    If it were up to me this soldior should be given an award , why is the IDF taught to show restraight, i dont get it, is it to keep getting american money?

    or is it so an article like this dosent come up on the world stage and embaress the IDF, i really dont get it.

    I know everyone will disagree with me, but, i would have reprimanded the officer for not going far enough, in my humble opinion the culture of the IDF must change

    I truly dont understand why the IDF expect its soldiors to act like angels, being a soldior means being tough to the enemy, i really dont know why the IDF

    expect the soldiors to act like nuns all the time, it really is beyond me.
    "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time"
    Abraham Lincoln

    God laughs at the judgment of the wicked
    Psalms 37:13

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    Re: IDF: Attack on activist not representative of army conduct

    Jericho Missile is right.
    Eisner should have shot the activist in the head point blank.
    He should have proceeded to shoot every other protester on sight.
    going along with the flow, he should have taken his platoon, storm the village and kill every man woman and child residents.
    THEN we could really give him a medal! let the Jewish spirit be light to the gentiles!

  4. #4
    Senior Member JerichoMissile's Avatar
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    Re: IDF: Attack on activist not representative of army conduct

    Quote Originally Posted by sharonbn View Post
    Jericho Missile is right.
    Eisner should have shot the activist in the head point blank.
    He should have proceeded to shoot every other protester on sight.
    going along with the flow, he should have taken his platoon, storm the village and kill every man woman and child residents.
    THEN we could really give him a medal! let the Jewish spirit be light to the gentiles!

    hi sharonbn, i guess your being sarcastic, right?

    but you do agree with me that the IDF shouldnt expect the soldiors to act like nuns 100% of the time , and soldiors are meant to be tough, you agree with this right?

    and killing all the protesters would be going a little too far, but he definately shouldnt be in trouble, and by the way the 'palestinian' that shot the video, well as for him,

    the IDF should treat his family as they treat families of suicide bombers, demolish their houses, and he should be charged with video taping an illegal march, and he should be charged with posting the video to the world media, on the grounds of national security, and posting enemy propoganda, because this arab didnt post the video of the alledged incident to make sure the IDF trains its soldiors better, he posted it to make israel look like an evil barbaric war criminal army, the person who filmed this should definately be charged.
    "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time"
    Abraham Lincoln

    God laughs at the judgment of the wicked
    Psalms 37:13

  5. #5
    Senior Member JerichoMissile's Avatar
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    Re: IDF: Attack on activist not representative of army conduct

    I need to get this off my chest, i thought one of the reasons the state of israel was established was for the jews to no longer be/act like cowards towards our enemies, like we were in the diaspora in europe for the last 1000yrs, but for some unknown reason the IDF high command continue to try and instill these traits into our people serving the IDF, for what reason, i dont know.
    "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time"
    Abraham Lincoln

    God laughs at the judgment of the wicked
    Psalms 37:13

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    Re: IDF: Attack on activist not representative of army conduct

    Jerichomissile

    I am no leftie but I cannot agree with you if what you seem to be saying is that it is a sign of courage for a soldier to be hitting a civilian protestor in the face with a rifle butt.

    Now, believe me that I did not say the above because I am on the side of the protestor/s and against the IDF. Nothing can be further from the truth but we must have perspective.
    Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
    Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright

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    Re: IDF: Attack on activist not representative of army conduct

    Hi JerichoMissile,

    I agree with you that the IDF shouldnt expect the soldiors to act like nuns 100% of the time.
    would you agree with me that when dealing with unarmed civilian protesters, there are other options, somewhere between "acting like a nun" and hitting the opponent with a rifle?
    but you wanted him to do even more extreme acts than hitting the opponent in the face. assuming you didn't mean shoot the man to death (correct me if I'm wrong) - what did you had in mind?

    for instance, how about pushing him in the chest with bare hands so as to get him out of the way (that was the purpose of the army presence there - the protesters wanted to block the road) or how about just standing firm in place and not letting him pass through?
    btw, according to news reporting, the offending officer had 'riot disperse' means at his disposal (like tear gas, water hoses, etc) but for unknown reason, he chose to face the protesters face to face - perhaps he misjudged the situation?

  8. #8
    Senior Member JerichoMissile's Avatar
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    Re: IDF: Attack on activist not representative of army conduct

    assuming you didn't mean shoot the man to death (correct me if I'm wrong) - what did you had in mind?

    How about pointing the rifle at his head, telling him the gun is loaded and i have an itchy trigger finger now start marching back or my finger slips.
    But i bet that would make the news too right?
    and pushing him in the chest, thats assault too my friend, that would make world headlines.


    and Sharonbn, any comment about the idiot that filmed this, do you agree with my ways of treating him as i spelt out in my above post earlier.
    "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time"
    Abraham Lincoln

    God laughs at the judgment of the wicked
    Psalms 37:13

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    Re: IDF: Attack on activist not representative of army conduct

    Quote Originally Posted by JerichoMissile View Post
    How about pointing the rifle at his head, telling him the gun is loaded and i have an itchy trigger finger now start marching back or my finger slips.
    But i bet that would make the news too right?
    suppose he calls your bluff and doesn't move, what then?
    Quote Originally Posted by JerichoMissile View Post
    and pushing him in the chest, thats assault too my friend, that would make world headlines.
    no, that is not an assault, it is an acceptable way to treat a protester who disobeys the security forces.
    or at least, it falls within boundaries of proportional reaction to a provocation.
    after that, the officer could arrest him.

    Quote Originally Posted by JerichoMissile View Post
    and Sharonbn, any comment about the idiot that filmed this, do you agree with my ways of treating him as i spelt out in my above post earlier.
    you really do not see any distinction between someone who is a suicide bomber and someone who holds a camera in his hands?
    really??
    really???

    do you grasp the principal of freedom of the press in a democracy?

    can you tell me what was wrong with filming the incident, besides the fact that it exposes needless violence and being embarrassing to the army? what national secret was revealed?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Pleepleus's Avatar
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    Re: IDF: Attack on activist not representative of army conduct

    I think the protester should have been asked to stop blocking the road/move along and if he refused to comply, arrested and deported back to Denmark. There was no reason to slam him in the head with a rifle. That was stupid and gave the protesters (who brought the camera for this very reason) exactly what they wanted.

  11. #11
    Senior Member dayag's Avatar
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    Re: IDF: Attack on activist not representative of army conduct

    Update:

    IDF Lt. Col. Shaul Eisner, who was filmed over the weekend hitting a Danish protester with his rifle butt in the Jordan Valley, was dismissed from his position on Wednesday.

    IDF Chief of Staff Benny Gantz decided to dismiss Eisner, after the recommendations of GOC Central Command Nitzan Alon and Sami Turgeman, commander of the Israel Defense Forces' ground forces, on the grounds that the attack was a "moral failure."

    Gantz said that an investigation into the incident revealed operational failures in the preparation of IDF soldiers for the protest bike ride in which the activist took part as well as in the soldiers' handling of the confrontation that erupted.

    Eisner, who was due to receive the rank of colonel, will be transferred to a senior staff position and will be barred from carrying out any command position in the IDF in the next two years. Starting 2014, Einser will be able to return to a command position, should he fulfill the necessary requirements...
    source: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...rifle-1.425082
    "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you, if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy." (Ps. 137: 5-7)"

    "Any generation in which the Temple is not built, it is as if it had been destroyed in their times" (Yerushalmi, Yoma 1a).

  12. #12
    Senior Member dayag's Avatar
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    Re: IDF: Attack on activist not representative of army conduct

    It is like B'Tselem waited until after the army acted to release this "new" video evidence. Exactly like that.

    Days after Israel Defense Forces chief Benny Gantz opted to dismiss Lt. Col. Shalom Eisner for striking a foreign left-wing protester, new video evidence released by an Israeli NGO pertains to prove the Israeli officer employed brute force unprovoked.

    According to a statement, which was attached to the Palestinian television clip, by B'Tselem, Eisner is seen striking five different pro-Palestinian protesters in last Saturday's incident.

    In addition, and in contrast to Eisner's own contention, there seem to be no signs of violence from the protesters toward IDF troops in general, or Eisner in particular...
    source: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...vists-1.425579
    "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand wither, let my tongue cleave to my palate if I do not remember you, if I do not set Jerusalem above my highest joy." (Ps. 137: 5-7)"

    "Any generation in which the Temple is not built, it is as if it had been destroyed in their times" (Yerushalmi, Yoma 1a).

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